Opinion Coach: James Hird

[Despair]

I think it's time we had a thread to talk about 'the elephant in the room'. This is the one that is going to divide opinions the most and it doesn't just ask one question, it asks a thousand questions.

I did a brief search of threads relating to Hird and noticed that they typically don't last very long. I believe that this is mostly due to participants not being respectful toward others, such is how passionate of a topic it is. Please bear this in mind when deciding to reply.

He was given a contract extension last year which extends until the end of 2016. Which, I believe will be honored unless CAS finds us guilty.

But, is he the right man for the job? Is he getting the most out of the players? Can he take us to glory?

Can we move forward as a club with Hird at the helm? There is a lot of talk about the players experience "ASAGA fatigue", what about Hird himself? Surely it takes a toll on him just as much, if not more, than the players.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

His record is decent but he really needs some results his year.

Finals - and not just an eighth finish, lose by 10 goals type of result.

At 4-5 we're not in terrible shape but the periods during games where we just look uninspired is hurting.

I have zero doubt he'll coach next year and so he should, he's contracted. But that'll be his fifth year at the helm and top four needs to be the goal. If we can't get that, he'll struggle to be reappointed I think.

I think the other elephant is an unsigned Clarkson out of contract at the same time. Should be remain unsigned and looks like he could be shifted, there'll be a flurry for his services, and if we're not performing then we should be at the front of the queue.

Should we improve as required, or there's at least a proper plan to build the side, Hird should remain.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

His record is decent but he really needs some results his year.

Finals - and not just an eighth finish, lose by 10 goals type of result.

At 4-5 we're not in terrible shape but the periods during games where we just look uninspired is hurting.

I have zero doubt he'll coach next year and so he should, he's contracted. But that'll be his fifth year at the helm and top four needs to be the goal. If we can't get that, he'll struggle to be reappointed I think.

I think the other elephant is an unsigned Clarkson out of contract at the same time. Should be remain unsigned and looks like he could be shifted, there'll be a flurry for his services, and if we're not performing then we should be at the front of the queue.

Should we improve as required, or there's at least a proper plan to build the side, Hird should remain.

My thoughts exactly. He should rightly start coming under the microscope this season and next but I am willing to see what the next 18 months brings before considering anything close to changing coaches.

 

[Demz]

im a bit 50/50 he did sign a 2 year contract extension given to him by Paul Little who shouldn't have given it to him in the irst place. i just don't think Hirdy is playing enough of the kids, but i don't just blame Hird, i blame the match Committee for that also. as Sheedy said, you gotta play the young kids to see if they got it or not an Hirdy hasn't been doing that as such. but again having Hirds Knowledge that he has Business wise why doesn't he just work on the stock exchange where he could earn much more $$$$ . but not just that, that course he did in France. i think Brett Kirk is out of Contract at the end of next year also, ( he's an assistant under Lyon ) Tim Watson wasn't a good coach, great player though, but is Hird a good coach? ( ???? )

 

[BrunoV]

In order to discuss this properly I think there are two issues that need to be almost totally compartmentalised.

1. whether Hird should have been sacked following his 'involvement' with the 2012 supplements program; and

2. whether Hird should be coach in circumstances where it is almost a certainty that he is incapable of making proper decisions on the playing futures of players who were part of the 2012 supplements program and the very real potential for long term damage to the list that will result.

1 to me almost bordered on total nonsense and there is nothing credible that I have heard or read that would have me changing my mind at this stage. I don't think 1 has anything to do with this thread.

2 is the problem we are dealing with now.

As far as I am concerned the writing was on the wall by the end of week 1 of the free agency and trade period in 2014. All of the sudden the speculation about the coach ended and all of the sudden we went into top up mode.

I don't necessarily think you can blame Hird for it all, clearly he had the approval of the board to continue to coach and to give the 2012 players every chance at a bit of success. The problem is that list management became emotional and we treated 2014 as though it never happened. We stopped the build of our list that to this point had been done really well. You only need to look at the physical attributes of our VFL team to realise just how bad the balance of the list is in terms of key position players.

I don't think I could ever accept that if Adrian Dodoro was in charge of the trade period in normal circumstances that we would have gone into last year's draft with 2 picks.

I am in no doubt that Hird is seriously compromised by the loyalty he feels towards that 2012 players, which has obviously been returned, and that it has compromised the development of the team, stalled the development of the list and could well be responsible for wasting a 5 year rebuild.

You don't have to look any further than the reality that the same under performing senior group has never been challenged at the selection table which has gotten to the point of the invention of ridiculous roles for players who have no purpose other than to compensate for the flaws of the main group (the aggregate of which leaves us with what amounts to 16 or 17 players on the field) to see it.

I think Hird is a master manager of people and that in normal circumstances he has everything required to be a premiership coach but I doubt that he can continue as senior coach if we are to move forward as a team.

I would like for nothing more than him and the club to admit defeat and play the kids we have spent the last 4 years developing but there is not much to suggest that he is capable of making that decision. I'd like to think that the administration can sit Hird down like the Cats did with Thompson in 2006 but the issue here is more than some strange off field behaviour and breakdown in the organisational structure of the club, it gets to the heart of what make Hird who he is.

 

[Doss]

If we continue to under-perform and, just as critically, appear to make the same sort of mistakes over and over, then he will rightly come under scrutiny.

In particular, I think he needs to be more willing to make changes and make a tough call or two. There's probably a couple players who are getting games under false pretences at present.

 

[Howard Moon]

i think as a club we are in a real bind.

We need to address certain things, but i feel like we are morally.. hmm is that the word? well whatever the word is.. but we are bound to stick by the 2012 collective. And its going to hurt us - the saga that keeps on giving.

Whether or not we think its right, whether its a business.... or we think as a club we wronged the group.

If we start cutting and chopping do you think litigants would come forward in anger? its inevitable.
This would extend to the coach and staff as well as players.

Personaly i think the plan that got he/us success has been found out. The corridor is now owned pushing us wide and slow. I am yet to see a counter idea from the box other than keep going into the middle and keep taking risks. Each time its like russian roulette.. if the kick gets chopped out we get killed on the break, or if it does come off we have one shot at hitting the forward or else it pings back out.

But in the end i think he and we are hamstrung by how many list changes we can make, or a duty to stand by certain players and its hurting bad.

what are our moral obligations?

edit: must have been typing at the same time BrunoV i agree with your sentiments

 

[Despair]

What bothers me the most, is that he is already under so much scrutiny due to extraordinary events (ASADA) that he must feel somewhat inclined to try and achieve immediate success through selecting the current best 22 that he is not promoting the development and opportunity of "the kids" and thus not working within the best interest of the club.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Needs to start making the tough calls. Needs to come out and state his intentions.

If he keeps on playing the older guys then he will fall on his sword if we don't perform.

I've been a big fan of his but its a brutal game and you are judged on results. Could be the year that it either makes or breaks him as a coach.

 

[Keystone agony]

I think we get rid if coaches too early. Its almost as if you get one chance at it and if you dont cut it, thats it. Pretty sure Clarkson had a poor patch there, Bomber did ect

Carlton getting rid of Ratten hardly has worked, Gold coast the same with bluey Mckenna. Melbourne really havnt improved much under Roos either. So i do think we go a little too early on some.

Id almost be inclined once the wada/asada stuff is completely over and done that we give him another chance. His record is pretty good, took over from a side under Knights going at 37% to 54% under himself with a lot of difficulty during that time. Sometimes the grass isnt always greener. Youd have to look to see if there are any outstanding coaches who are assistants elsewhere when making the decision.

Really Cooney was the only one who we picked up as an older player in a bid to have a go at a flag that we traded a pick for.

Giles we needed as depth, Gwilt we needed as depth.

 

[Eleven 38]

im a bit 50/50 he did sign a 2 year contract extension given to him by Paul Little who shouldn't have given it to him in the irst place. i just don't think Hirdy is playing enough of the kids, but i don't just blame Hird, i blame the match Committee for that also. as Sheedy said, you gotta play the young kids to see if they got it or not an Hirdy hasn't been doing that as such. but again having Hirds Knowledge that he has Business wise why doesn't he just work on the stock exchange where he could earn much more $$$$ . but not just that, that course he did in France. i think Brett Kirk is out of Contract at the end of next year also, ( he's an assistant under Lyon ) Tim Watson wasn't a good coach, great player though, but is Hird a good coach? ( ???? )

They had to give Hird the contract extension, otherwise he wouldn't have taken the 12month ban.

 

[Eleven 38]

I dont think a lot of our problems will be in regards to coaching over the next few years. We aren't going to have the talent. None of the big name coaches could be poached so we'd have to take on a untried coach.

 

[Ashton Agar]

We are a good side on paper, that is playing like total shit. He needs to make us function properly again like 2013. If he can't do it by the end of 2016, he surely has to be moved on. Also needs to grow a pair and drop some of his "boys" for younger players.

 

[Demz]

They had to give Hird the contract extension, otherwise he wouldn't have taken the 12month ban.

ohh ok. but 2 years? should have only been 1, not 2.

 

[fishardansin]

Hird has next year as far as I'm concerned. I think no matter who is coaching we'll see a few veterans go at the end of this year as well as some 4th year players who haven't broken into the team. I expect the club to take 3 kids in the draft, upgrade McKernan and take a mature player or two to load up for a real crack next year.

If that falls short then it'll be rebuild time.

I'm not prepared to say whether Hird is the guy from there or not. I actually think he would be a great leader of kids in a rebuild.

What Hird needs to be judged on is how conservative he is now. He needs to rotate the kids and change up the structures.

 

[eth-dog]

The problem I have other than continually not selecting in form players in the VFL or playing them in a different role they were playing in the VFL (J Merrett) is that his midfield and forward line strategy is non-existent. I rate Skippy as the VFL coach but I don't know what he's doing as midfield coach in the AFL honestly. Bassett doesn't seem to be doing anything to suggest he's as good a coach as everyone thought he was, or maybe he's coaching at the wrong end of the field.

He's mismanaged our players through injuries as well, Bellchambers, Myers, Watson all spring to mind. I don't think he's the right coach to lead us forward any more.

 

[Mercuri Rising]

Being given the arse at the end of 2016 seems the most likely scenario at this point. Glad he was kept through ASADA, but as we've known for a while now - a brilliant motivator but often a shite match-day coach. It'll be interesting to see which way the club goes if we eke out another couple of middling 7th-8th finishes before then.

 

[Jade]

I certainly believe he can coach through the end of 2016, however if the team is still putting in the listless performances like it did this week I think it would be fair to start asking whether or not he should be leading the club around about this time next year.

 

[Mercurial89]

I think he can coach, and we were building along nicely. Then the saga hit and has thrown everything out of whack and I don't think he will be afforded the time to get everything back together.

The thing that makes him such a great leader of people is his faith in others, and the chances he gives you. The problem is that with all this drama has occurred he/or the club could be both, are incapable of making the hard decisions that need to be made when the time comes to make them.

Id like him to see out his contract, the media pressure will come next year wanting an early kill. Then I look at the coaching landscape and there isn't anything out there. So do we replace a battling coach with an untried amateur? do we stick with Hird with the instruction go full rebuild?

Its a difficult situation and one I have no doubt in my mind our club will handle poorly.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I don't mind the "top up" thing so much. We finished 7th for two years in a row and have a very good young core, I don't think adding some quality and shooting for top 4 was necessarily a bad call. In Hirds last year as coach we were one win off top 4, so you can largely understand his faith in the group.

The other part of it is we didn't give up much - basically only a late 30s pick for Cooney. All our other "top ups" were basically free. So it's not like we've mortgaged a future.

Having said that you need to be very realistic each and every year, and depending how we finish this year, that's crucial.

 

[Demz]

remember, Hird was an untried coach to begin with, but i'd go with Stewart Dew or Brett Kirk if Hirdy faces the axe or even Peter Sumich

 

[Howard Moon]

The problem I have other than continually not selecting in form players in the VFL or playing them in a different role they were playing in the VFL (J Merrett) is that his midfield and forward line strategy is non-existent. I rate Skippy as the VFL coach but I don't know what he's doing as midfield coach in the AFL honestly. Bassett doesn't seem to be doing anything to suggest he's as good a coach as everyone thought he was, or maybe he's coaching at the wrong end of the field.

He's mismanaged our players through injuries as well, Bellchambers, Myers, Watson all spring to mind. I don't think he's the right coach to lead us forward any more.

youre avatar is telling me different

 

[Demz]

question is, why does Tommy Bell get all the games when we have an inform Ruckman that of McKernan, Rohan Connoly makes sense in his Story , im with eth on this one

i'd like Fletch to retire, Get rid of Matty Egan an put Fletch there as Defence Coach

 

[BrunoV]

This is not a normal situation in which it's just incumbent vs untried.

We don't have until 2016 to work out whether the 2012 players are good enough. We know they're not and there is virtually nothing to suggest they are.

If we wait until the end of 2016 we will have wasted 5 years (2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016) during which the development of the list has stagnated and then gone backwards. When you put that at the end of an 8 year period of mediocrity and incompetence you pretty much become Richmond (1981 to 2011) and the current Carlton.

There are 30 games to be played in between now and the end of 2016. We need to work where the list is really at as soon as possible to know how to finish it off. There is plenty to work with and it seems absurd that the club has invested millions in player development for players it wont use.

The club needs to start making the proper football decisions again. If that means financially compensating the 2012 players that aren't up to it, then, so be it. If Hird can't make those decisions tomorrow he should go today.

 

[Pweter]

Footy is a business based on winning. That has been lost on our club but it needs to start happening again and it starts with Hird imo as he would be the first voice heard in match committee and have the final signoff of any changes made. He needs to coach like the saga never happened.

The collateral damage from doing anything else is too much. We will lose promising kids to other clubs for better opportunities, our on field performance will continue to be mediocre and come the end of the saga (whenever that is), our list will be in even worse shape.

That hasn't even touched on match day coaching where too often we seem to start a game with plan A, then no matter what happens stick with plan A and all too rarely shake things up. Hird has 18 months to prove himself as a match day coach, but in the mean time I'd like to see the mates club dissolve and everyone at the club realise the saga sucks ass but is not an excuse for being selected when under performing.