Contested Marks

[contested mark]

A noticeable difference between this yr and last yr in my opinion is our willingness to kick to a contest more often when appropriate, especially long and deep. I listened to an interview from Neil Craig earlier in the week and he jokingly mentioned the birdman in this role such is his reliability at taking the pack mark. When you think back to the west coast final last yr we didnt really look for the long option much and held onto the ball too long, despite having the best contested grab in SA with kenny McGregor deep. I think it improves our game adding this element when appropriate.

We are actually very lucky at the crows to probably have the best three contested mark takers in SA (Brett Burton, Ken McGregor and Ian Perrie). If I get some time i might look to post a couple of pictures of these guys always great to see them in action.

 

[The Crows Truth]

A noticeable difference between this yr and last yr in my opinion is our willingness to kick to a contest more often when appropriate, especially long and deep. I listened to an interview from Neil Craig earlier in the week and he jokingly mentioned the birdman in this role such is his reliability at taking the pack mark. When you think back to the west coast final last yr we didnt really look for the long option much and held onto the ball too long, despite having the best contested grab in SA with kenny McGregor deep. I think it improves our game adding this element when appropriate.

We are actually very lucky at the crows to probably have the best three contested mark takers in SA (Brett Burton, Ken McGregor and Ian Perrie). If I get some time i might look to post a couple of pictures of these guys always great to see them in action.

dont you rate Tredrea?

 

[jc67]

My moneys on a jack impersonator.
odds?

 

[One Eyed Crow]

Its getting a bit boring now jack

 

[The Crows Truth]

My moneys on a jack impersonator.
odds?

1:1

 

[contested mark]

dont you rate Tredrea?

we are talking about contested marks. As a CHF tredrea is a fine player (3 time AA CHF), but i think this yr has showed that he is not as good when he does not get that A-grade delivery. With kenny, the birdman and perrie you can just bomb it in and they'll do the rest.

 

[contested mark]

Just also if you guys could keep on topic a little too please. After reading the hissy fits in the other threads and seeing the posts deleted it looks a little bare and i am simply trying to have a decent discussion.

With regards to our style. This feature added to our game makes us a much more dangerous side come September. Bock coming back is another must for the flag in my opinion.

 

[tribey]

we are talking about contested marks. As a CHF tredrea is a fine player (3 time AA CHF), but i think this yr has showed that he is not as good when he does not get that A-grade delivery. With kenny, the birdman and perrie you can just bomb it in and they'll do the rest.

Just a quick correction, Tredrea is a 4-time AA and all key forwards rely on good delivery.

His decline this year has more to do with him having lost a yard or two of pace which is a killer for his style of play.

Totally agree on Bock, he'll give us another dimension and allow KMac to stay up forward at all times and hopefully develop into one of the better CHFs going around.

 

[AdelUniCrowFan]

The Crows regularly chime in for Contested Marks, which is great to see, and to see that it spread well across the board is another positive.

CMs for this year from Pro-Stats
West Coast 103
Adelaide 102
Port Adelaide 95
Brisbane 94
Carlton 92
Fremantle, Richmond 88
Geelong 87
Essendon 86
Collingwood 83
St Kilda, Western Bulldogs 79
Kangaroos 77
Sydney 74
Hawthorn 72
Melbourne 70

Our CM leaders
Totals
Burton 12, McGregor 11, Ricciuto 8, Hart 8, Hentschel 7, Biglands 6, Perrie 5, Bassett 5, McLeod 4, Massie 4, Stevens 4, Rutten 4, Johncock 4.

Per Game
Burton 1.5, Perrie 1.2, McGregor 1.1, Ricciuto 1.0, Hart 1.0, Stevens 0.8, Hentschel 0.8, Biglands 0.6, Bassett 0.6, Massie 0.5

In totals for the league Burton is =14th, McGregor =18th and Ricciuto and Hart =34th. Brisbane's Bradshaw and Brown lead this stat with 23. Riewoldt, Hall, Richardson, Fevola, CCornes, Staker, Whitnall, ARocca, McPharlin, Neitz, NThompson are the other players above Burton on the list.

Per game Burton is =12th. Jumping Whitnall, Rocca and Thompson and dropping behind Toby Thurstans. Perrie ranks 20th, McGregor =28th and Ricciuto and Hart =30th

 

[contested mark]

Just a quick correction, Tredrea is a 4-time AA and all key forwards rely on good delivery.

His decline this year has more to do with him having lost a yard or two of pace which is a killer for his style of play.

Totally agree on Bock, he'll give us another dimension and allow KMac to stay up forward at all times and hopefully develop into one of the better CHFs going around.

my apologies i havent followed his career that closely. Nevertheless you dont get 4 AA jumpers if you are not a good player do you.

On the other issue, all forwards require good delivery key forwards or not, but clearly some forwards are better at winning the contested ball than others. So some will suffer more when the delivery is not up to A grade. I think your point about tredrea losing a bit of pace as a contributing factor to his downhill supports this point as he gets alot of his ball on the lead.

I see you rate Bock as well. So do i, a guy at WWT early on said to me he just needed time as he was learning the game and even when he was going through a rough patch a few yrs after he was drafted i had hope. I'm excited to see how much of the defensive side of his game has improved. Having wayne along side of him for a couple of yrs might have taught him a few things.

 

[contested mark]

The Crows regularly chime in for Contested Marks, which is great to see, and to see that it spread well across the board is another positive.

CMs for this year from Pro-Stats
West Coast 103
Adelaide 102
Port Adelaide 95
Brisbane 94
Carlton 92
Fremantle, Richmond 88
Geelong 87
Essendon 86
Collingwood 83
St Kilda, Western Bulldogs 79
Kangaroos 77
Sydney 74
Hawthorn 72
Melbourne 70

Our CM leaders
Totals
Burton 12, McGregor 11, Ricciuto 8, Hart 8, Hentschel 7, Biglands 6, Perrie 5, Bassett 5, McLeod 4, Massie 4, Stevens 4, Rutten 4, Johncock 4.

Per Game
Burton 1.5, Perrie 1.2, McGregor 1.1, Ricciuto 1.0, Hart 1.0, Stevens 0.8, Hentschel 0.8, Biglands 0.6, Bassett 0.6, Massie 0.5

In totals for the league Burton is =14th, McGregor =18th and Ricciuto and Hart =34th. Brisbane's Bradshaw and Brown lead this stat with 23. Riewoldt, Hall, Richardson, Fevola, CCornes, Staker, Whitnall, ARocca, McPharlin, Neitz, NThompson are the other players above Burton on the list.

Per game Burton is =12th. Jumping Whitnall, Rocca and Thompson and dropping behind Toby Thurstans. Perrie ranks 20th, McGregor =28th and Ricciuto and Hart =30th

The most important stat would be contested marks within 0-40m. No good taking a contested mark on the wing or defense. I think a lot of the birdmans marks would have been forward of centre and within 50 for us this yr.

Its the style thats most important, if there is no flooding and you have moved it on quickly at the very least we get 50/50 balls if the mark isn’t taken with someone like bode getting the crumbs more often than last yr. The leading mark has its place to break it up too.

 

[Cap]

If your going to get that technical then you would want to look at the situation

I think Contested Mark is a bit of a hype word in the AFL at the moment (the same as contested ball) – if you win by 20 goals and had 1 hard ball get and 1 contested Mark you would be more happy than losing by 10 goals and having a heap of contested mark and contested ball.

If you are playing well chances are there is not so many chances of the hard ball gets and taking a mark on the lead is just as good

 

[Stiffy_18]

I am going to have one of my whinges here.

Now everyone knows that I have been a Hentschel fan for a long long time. Well before he made his debut. However, I am disappointed with his overhead marking ATM. I would have thought he would have improved in this area as he matures and gets more experienced but IMHO if there is any sort of pressure on him, he just doesn't hold those overhead marks.

He is tall, has long arms and as a result higher than average reach for his height but still for some reason he is not that good overhead. On the lead chest marking is great. Outsmarting his opponent in one on one staff is also great but his overhead marking needs improving IMHO. His average of 0.8 contested marks is just not good enough from a key forward.

If Hentschel was as good overhead as Burton, he would be a deadset star.

 

[marvin]

Now everyone knows that I have been a Hentschel fan for a long long time. Well before he made his debut. However, I am disappointed with his overhead marking ATM. I would have thought he would have improved in this area as he matures and gets more experienced but IMHO if there is any sort of pressure on him, he just doesn't hold those overhead marks.

Fair point - his mark against Solomon in the last quarter last week was rare enough to be remarkable.

Just wondering whether he was taking an overhead grab when he busted his leg a few years back? Matthew Robran was never quite as assured pulling one down towards the front of a pack after he broke his leg, and I always thought it was a subconscious reaction to his injury. I wonder if Trent has the same voice in the back of his mind?

 

[macca23]

Fair point - his mark against Solomon in the last quarter last week was rare enough to be remarkable.

Just wondering whether he was taking an overhead grab when he busted his leg a few years back? Matthew Robran was never quite as assured pulling one down towards the front of a pack after he broke his leg, and I always thought it was a subconscious reaction to his injury. I wonder if Trent has the same voice in the back of his mind?

Very good point.

It happened in a scratch match of the rest of Crows v the rest of Port off memory, when he took a hanger over the top of his opponent and broke his ankle on landing.

Prior to that, the speccy was a trademark of his game.

 

[tribey]

If your going to get that technical then you would want to look at the situation

I think Contested Mark is a bit of a hype word in the AFL at the moment (the same as contested ball) – if you win by 20 goals and had 1 hard ball get and 1 contested Mark you would be more happy than losing by 10 goals and having a heap of contested mark and contested ball.

If you are playing well chances are there is not so many chances of the hard ball gets and taking a mark on the lead is just as good

Hear hear.

I posted in one of the threads on Bay 13 about Tredrea and his supposedly not taking contested marks and said basically the same thing.

There's too much emphasis today on contested this and contested that - if Tredrea or Riewoldt are good enough to lose their marker(s), boot six goals all off of leads and propel their sides to victory does that make them lesser footballers than say Luke McPharlin, Aaron Hamill or Ian Perrie who have to risk life and limb busting packs week-in week-out in order to have even a minimal impact? Of course not.

Last time I looked goals and wins were more valuable than contested marks.

 

[The Crows Truth]

I am going to have one of my whinges here.

Now everyone knows that I have been a Hentschel fan for a long long time. Well before he made his debut. However, I am disappointed with his overhead marking ATM. I would have thought he would have improved in this area as he matures and gets more experienced but IMHO if there is any sort of pressure on him, he just doesn't hold those overhead marks.

He is tall, has long arms and as a result higher than average reach for his height but still for some reason he is not that good overhead. On the lead chest marking is great. Outsmarting his opponent in one on one staff is also great but his overhead marking needs improving IMHO. His average of 0.8 contested marks is just not good enough from a key forward.

If Hentschel was as good overhead as Burton, he would be a deadset star.

good point mate

Look his 8 goals on the weekend were great but lets be honest here. we would prefer him taking strong contested grabs and slotting them home compared to these party trick goals that he seems to score disprortionately (Mods also scored lots)

I agree if he can take more overhaed marks (Solomon was a few inches shorter) then he will be alot more valuable to us. We need him to

 

[crowsarethebest]

I am going to have one of my whinges here.

Now everyone knows that I have been a Hentschel fan for a long long time. Well before he made his debut. However, I am disappointed with his overhead marking ATM. I would have thought he would have improved in this area as he matures and gets more experienced but IMHO if there is any sort of pressure on him, he just doesn't hold those overhead marks.

He is tall, has long arms and as a result higher than average reach for his height but still for some reason he is not that good overhead. On the lead chest marking is great. Outsmarting his opponent in one on one staff is also great but his overhead marking needs improving IMHO. His average of 0.8 contested marks is just not good enough from a key forward.

If Hentschel was as good overhead as Burton, he would be a deadset star.

I think he is more of a 3rd Forawrd than a KPP. At least 4 of those 8 goals he kicked were not from marks but from general play or "crumbers" goals.

 

[The Crows Truth]

I think he is more of a 3rd Forawrd than a KPP. At least 4 of those 8 goals he kicked were not from marks but from general play or "crumbers" goals.

tend to agree. i know stiffs thought he was our great white hope as a kpp but imho i dont reckon he will be. a talented leading/crumbing 3rd tall is what he will be i reckon which is still valuable

 

[contested mark]

I think he is more of a 3rd Forawrd than a KPP. At least 4 of those 8 goals he kicked were not from marks but from general play or "crumbers" goals.

Thats true about he got his goals, not many were from marks. I can also see stiffy18's point. If he was a strong overhead as well as his other attributes he would be a top5 pick. Every player has their weaknesses. I can still see him holding down CHF for us, but he'll be like warren tredrea in style. I remember some while back Neil mentioning he would like trent to become the next tredrea. Aggression might be a problem, but its still possible.