Analysis Current Bottom 6

[Joffaboy]

There was a post on the autopsy thread that mentioned that we don't have a bottom 6.

While I understand what he meant, we do have a bottom six, however it is a bottom six that has higher quality than the bottom six than in even our Rossy years.

Considering we have a bye I thought it might be a good discussion point that we can fight and argue over for the next week or two

So I will have a go from the team on the weekend. Considering we have Higgins, Butler, Clark, Billings and Steele missing this bottom six is pretty encouraging.

Ben Paton. - A bit down on his previous years and has struggled a little. Seemed to be finding form yesterday. Tidy down back, a bit untidy going into forward 50, but the upside is that he had his run back.
Dan McKenzie - playing his best football and is earning his spot on a wing. Hard at it and is still learning his position. Got shown up by the Melbourne wingers whose two way running showed him what is required. A huge tank so can only get better.
Ben Long - can been very good or go completely missing. yesterday played well forward but seems to get thrown around a bit which may unsettle him. Seems to be constantly talked about being dropped
Mason Wood - an afterthought depth player that has had a good run with injuries finally and has found form. Can be a bit quiet but then bobs up with a bullet 50 metre pass to a leading forward or a two step bomb from outside fifty for a goal. Like DMAC got a lesson from the Melbourne wingers but holding his place on merit.
Jimmy Webster - nothing outstanding, good or bad. Playing as he always have but gets some support from a much better backline in Wilke, Doog and Paton. A beautiful left foot with great penetration, the type of kicking Ratts loves. Like long is a favourite of the fans to get dropped.
Cooper Sharman - burst on to the scene at the end of 2021. A great mid season pick up, but needed to do some work in the pre season. Was told the coaching group thought he had been scouted by opposition track watchers watching his running patterns. Confirmed in the Carlton pre season match where they blocked him out of the game. Worked hard to get around these tactics and has gotten back into the team due to the small forwards getting a bit skinny due to injury. A player with real potential and has done some nice things but still learning in the seniors.

So that's my crack at it. Some might put Owens, Windhager, and NWM due mainly to inexperience, or some other players.

I'll tell you it is harder than it looks, but gratifying that these players would have been middle 6 under the Richo years, and if we had them as bottom six in 2009 and 2010 we would have at least one flag I reckon.

 

[triggering bro]

There was a post on the autopsy thread that mentioned that we don't have a bottom 6.

While I understand what he meant, we do have a bottom six, however it is a bottom six that has higher quality than the bottom six than in even our Rossy years.

Considering we have a bye I thought it might be a good discussion point that we can fight and argue over for the next week or two

So I will have a go from the team on the weekend. Considering we have Higgins, Butler, Clark, Billings and Steele missing this bottom six is pretty encouraging.

Ben Paton. - A bit down on his previous years and has struggled a little. Seemed to be finding form yesterday. Tidy down back, a bit untidy going into forward 50, but the upside is that he had his run back.
Dan McKenzie - playing his best football and is earning his spot on a wing. Hard at it and is still learning his position. Got shown up by the Melbourne wingers whose two way running showed him what is required. A huge tank so can only get better.
Ben Long - can been very good or go completely missing. yesterday played well forward but seems to get thrown around a bit which may unsettle him. Seems to be constantly talked about being dropped
Mason Wood - an afterthought depth player that has had a good run with injuries finally and has found form. Can be a bit quiet but then bobs up with a bullet 50 metre pass to a leading forward or a two step bomb from outside fifty for a goal. Like DMAC got a lesson from the Melbourne wingers but holding his place on merit.
Jimmy Webster - nothing outstanding, good or bad. Playing as he always have but gets some support from a much better backline in Wilke, Doog and Paton. A beautiful left foot with great penetration, the type of kicking Ratts loves. Like long is a favourite of the fans to get dropped.
Cooper Sharman - burst on to the scene at the end of 2021. A great mid season pick up, but needed to do some work in the pre season. Was told the coaching group thought he had been scouted by opposition track watchers watching his running patterns. Confirmed in the Carlton pre season match where they blocked him out of the game. Worked hard to get around these tactics and has gotten back into the team due to the small forwards getting a bit skinny due to injury. A player with real potential and has done some nice things but still learning in the seniors.

So that's my crack at it. Some might put Owens, Windhager, and NWM due mainly to inexperience, or some other players.

I'll tell you it is harder than it looks, but gratifying that these players would have been middle 6 under the Richo years, and if we had them as bottom six in 2009 and 2010 we would have at least one flag I reckon.

Billings didn’t make bottom 6? I guess he’s on the fringe of best 22 so just misses out.

 

[Joffaboy]

Billings didn’t make bottom 6? I guess he’s on the fringe of best 22 so just misses out.

Based on yesterdays team. If he played he probably would have been in it.

 

[triggering bro]

Based on yesterdays team. If he played he probably would have been in it.

Indeed.
I was extracting the urine. He’s more in that 10-15 range when he up & going.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

There was a post on the autopsy thread that mentioned that we don't have a bottom 6.

While I understand what he meant, we do have a bottom six, however it is a bottom six that has higher quality than the bottom six than in even our Rossy years.

Considering we have a bye I thought it might be a good discussion point that we can fight and argue over for the next week or two

So I will have a go from the team on the weekend. Considering we have Higgins, Butler, Clark, Billings and Steele missing this bottom six is pretty encouraging.

Ben Paton. - A bit down on his previous years and has struggled a little. Seemed to be finding form yesterday. Tidy down back, a bit untidy going into forward 50, but the upside is that he had his run back.
Dan McKenzie - playing his best football and is earning his spot on a wing. Hard at it and is still learning his position. Got shown up by the Melbourne wingers whose two way running showed him what is required. A huge tank so can only get better.
Ben Long - can been very good or go completely missing. yesterday played well forward but seems to get thrown around a bit which may unsettle him. Seems to be constantly talked about being dropped
Mason Wood - an afterthought depth player that has had a good run with injuries finally and has found form. Can be a bit quiet but then bobs up with a bullet 50 metre pass to a leading forward or a two step bomb from outside fifty for a goal. Like DMAC got a lesson from the Melbourne wingers but holding his place on merit.
Jimmy Webster - nothing outstanding, good or bad. Playing as he always have but gets some support from a much better backline in Wilke, Doog and Paton. A beautiful left foot with great penetration, the type of kicking Ratts loves. Like long is a favourite of the fans to get dropped.
Cooper Sharman - burst on to the scene at the end of 2021. A great mid season pick up, but needed to do some work in the pre season. Was told the coaching group thought he had been scouted by opposition track watchers watching his running patterns. Confirmed in the Carlton pre season match where they blocked him out of the game. Worked hard to get around these tactics and has gotten back into the team due to the small forwards getting a bit skinny due to injury. A player with real potential and has done some nice things but still learning in the seniors.

So that's my crack at it. Some might put Owens, Windhager, and NWM due mainly to inexperience, or some other players.

I'll tell you it is harder than it looks, but gratifying that these players would have been middle 6 under the Richo years, and if we had them as bottom six in 2009 and 2010 we would have at least one flag I reckon.

I think you got it back the front with DMAC, he b top 6 not bottom.

Seriously though, he's a beast, that goal he kicked in the first. Powerful and agile, his ability to break away through traffic is really good for someone also extremely fit. Always plays hard, really leads with his attack on the ball/man. Might not get a ton of it but far from bottom 6. Was having a very good game yesterday before copping a big knock.

I'd suggest webster/windhager/owens/howard would all be below him in my book

edit - just saw this was based on yesterday's team.. which makes sense

 

[Joffaboy]

I think you got it back the front with DMAC, he b top 6 not bottom.

Seriously though, he's a beast, that goal he kicked in the first. Powerful and agile, his ability to break away through traffic is really good for someone also extremely fit. Always plays hard, really leads with his attack on the ball/man. Might not get a ton of it but far from bottom 6. Was having a very good game yesterday before copping a big knock.

I'd suggest webster/windhager/owens/howard would all be below him in my book

edit - just saw this was based on yesterday's team.. which makes sense

Yes it is true and if DMAC is bottom six, I am pretty encouraged by the strength of our list. Imaging trying to get a bottom six with Steele, Higgins, Butler, Clark and Billings in the team (admittedly Butler and Billings would be bottom six so would only have to try and find four from the rest)

 

[plugger66]

Based on yesterdays side but not form yesterday otherwise that’s to easy I’d have long webster wood windhanger Owen shaman in no particular order. They are the ones who are most likely to be dropped at the moment And I know owens isn’t getting dropped the next game. It’s into the future. Milera and Paton after that.

 

[TobleroneJim]

For mine, Current bottom 6 in order is Owens, Windy, Sharman, Long, Paton, Wood. Webster and NWM probably the next two after that.

These guys should all stay in if they keep playing well, but of the 5 regulars that are out, Steele and Higgins are instant ins and Butler after his 5 goals yesterday should come straight in too. Tough for spots at the moment but i'd say Owens and Sharman will make way for the first two at some point, and either windy/long for butler. Clark and Billings might not get a look in for a while, really need to earn their respective spots (i'd say Billings angling for Wood's spot and Clark for Windy/Paton's spot).

Great position to be in depth wise as;
Byrnes, Bytel and Connolly can't get a look in at all but all 3 have shown great signs in the last 24 months.
Leinert and Highmore were both very impressive when picked but can't get a shot at it either.
Campbell and Heath fantastic cover for Ryder/Marshall.
We have gone way past Kent and Geary, and Coffield and Hannebery are afterthoughts at this stage.

If the adage is that you are only as good as your bottom 6, our premiership window should really be right now.

 

[Armoooo]

FB: Paton Howard Wilkie
HB: Hill Battle Sinclair
C: McKenzie Ross Wanganeen-Milera
HF: Gresham Marshall Long
FF: Higgins King Membrey
R: Ryder Steele Crouch

Thatd be my starting 18 at the moment. The bottom two I'd have from there would be Long and Wanganeen-Milera.

The rest of our bottom six comes from whoever is on our bench in any given week:
Webster; Jones; Billings; Butler; Windhager; Owens; Sharman; Wood; Lienert

Said it another thread, but Clark and Coffield coming into this side is an exciting prospect.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

I love Dmac. Just so consistent. Does the one percentages. Tackles hard. Runs both ways. Spoils. Always is reliable. Wins his one on one’s. Sortve player that will thrive in finals.

 

[god_of_the_universe]

I love Dmac. Just so consistent. Does the one percentages. Tackles hard. Runs both ways. Spoils. Always is reliable. Wins his one on one’s. Sortve player that will thrive in finals.

Doesn't have the natural talent other AFL players have, but he has a much better work ethic than many others

 

[Ads734]

I love Dmac. Just so consistent. Does the one percentages. Tackles hard. Runs both ways. Spoils. Always is reliable. Wins his one on one’s. Sortve player that will thrive in finals.

Just as an add on. In his uyear in the TAC cup for Oakliegh he beat out the following players to win the PLayer of the finals for the chargers.

Darcey Moore, Jordan Degoey, Jack Sinclair, Marc Pittonet, Dan Houston, Toby mclean, Ben Crocker, Tom Phillips. Couldn't agree more a=overall. He just does everything a coach wants. His marking overhead imo continues to be underated and will crucial in big finals moments.

 

[_Maximus_12]

I love Dmac. Just so consistent. Does the one percentages. Tackles hard. Runs both ways. Spoils. Always is reliable. Wins his one on one’s. Sortve player that will thrive in finals.

After such an inconsistent start to his career it’s amazing to see the turn around.

 

[lewdogs]

Long got some more praise from Ratts in the press conference.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Long got some more praise from Ratts in the press conference.

He actually had a very good game. So often the difference in low % situations.

 

[sunny3193]

Joffaboy
I am so amused with this thread because it is the antithesis of everything St Kilda since 09/10.
Definition of Irony: St Kilda supporters arguing about and ranking their less talented players rather than doing so for their most talented players.

 

[Joffaboy]

Joffaboy
I am so amused with this thread because it is the antithesis of everything St Kilda since 09/10.
Definition of Irony: St Kilda supporters arguing about and ranking their less talented players rather than doing so for their most talented players.

Saints 2009 Grand Final Team

Could easily chose from at least 8 for the bottom 6

 

[pebblesofsand]

Don't think you can talk about a "bottom 6" based on which team is selected in a given week subject to injuries and Covid protocols.

My expected starting 22 (excluding only long term injuries) would be

FB: Paton Howard Wilkie
HB: Hill Battle Sinclair
C: McKenzie Ross Billings
HF: Gresham Marshall Butler
FF: Higgins King Membrey
R: Ryder Steele Crouch

Int: Webster, Jones, Clark, Wood

And that means that the bottom 6 in some sort of order are Wood, McKenzie, Webster, Paton and then weirdly enough - Butler & Higgins.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Just as an add on. In his uyear in the TAC cup for Oakliegh he beat out the following players to win the PLayer of the finals for the chargers.

Darcey Moore, Jordan Degoey, Jack Sinclair, Marc Pittonet, Dan Houston, Toby mclean, Ben Crocker, Tom Phillips. Couldn't agree more a=overall. He just does everything a coach wants. His marking overhead imo continues to be underated and will crucial in big finals moments.

Lot of love here for Dmac.
I don't know, I just like the feelgood underdog come good story.
His shrug of the tackle and confidence to slot that goal on the run was just amazing on Sunday.

( I remember his deep breaths and concentration before the set shot he took in a *game last year. He was so nervous - look at him now.)

* Don't remember which game it was, but it was at an important time iirc.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Long got some more praise from Ratts in the press conference.

Set up Owens' goals - and he thanked him in his interview in the rooms afterwards.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Don't think you can talk about a "bottom 6" based on which team is selected in a given week subject to injuries and Covid protocols.

My expected starting 22 (excluding only long term injuries) would be

FB: Paton Howard Wilkie
HB: Hill Battle Sinclair
C: McKenzie Ross Billings
HF: Gresham Marshall Butler
FF: Higgins King Membrey
R: Ryder Steele Crouch

Int: Webster, Jones, Clark, Wood

And that means that the bottom 6 in some sort of order are Wood, McKenzie, Webster, Paton and then weirdly enough - Butler & Higgins.

There’s no world where Higgins is bottom 6

 

[MordySaint]

Saints 2009 Grand Final Team

Could easily chose from at least 8 for the bottom 6

View attachment 1412860

I'd add Sam Gilbert, Steven King to that list. We really had a bottom 10.

Steven King was a shadow of his former self at St Kilda, I really didn't understand the attraction with him. Especially after Geelong had asked him to retire.

You can really see now, how Rossy literally moneyballed us our team.

Whether its a credit to Rossy getting this side to two Grand Finals or just the star power of players such as Roo, Lenny, BJ etc.

 

[stfan]

Long got some more praise from Ratts in the press conference.

After I watched the replay of the game, my opinion of Long's game was that it was better than I thought from watching the game live at the ground.

 

[Joffaboy]

I'd add Sam Gilbert, Steven King to that list. We really had a bottom 10.

Steven King was a shadow of his former self at St Kilda, I really didn't understand the attraction with him. Especially after Geelong had asked him to retire.

You can really see now, how Rossy literally moneyballed us our team.

Whether its a credit to Rossy getting this side to two Grand Finals or just the star power of players such as Roo, Lenny, BJ etc.

Yes lots to chose from. My criteria was bottom six but I acknowledge that it can easily be debated that many more.

Used it as a comparison of a team that won 20 of 22 and just got pipped in the Grand Final. One of our all time best teams.

Shows how even we are without the top end superstars. We are getting some, maybe we are like the 04/05 side more than 09. We have some players becoming AA selections and some young players that would be top notch in 2 or three seasons.

So in fairness here are my bottom 6 of the GF team

Could fit King, Blake, Armitage and Gwilt into our current bottom six as well in my opinion.

 

[stfan]

FB: Paton Howard Wilkie
HB: Hill Battle Sinclair
C: McKenzie Ross Wanganeen-Milera
HF: Gresham Marshall Long
FF: Higgins King Membrey
R: Ryder Steele Crouch

Thatd be my starting 18 at the moment. The bottom two I'd have from there would be Long and Wanganeen-Milera.

The rest of our bottom six comes from whoever is on our bench in any given week:
Webster; Jones; Billings; Butler; Windhager; Owens; Sharman; Wood; Lienert

Said it another thread, but Clark and Coffield coming into this side is an exciting prospect.

I pretty much agree in terms of rating "at the moment" with your starting 18. Nasiah may possibly get squeezed out comes finals time.

Long and Butler are competing for the same spot. Long could be getting some more goals but is not. But he does bring a hardness to the contest.

Clark I think will soon be back in the 22. Most likely rotating as a mid.

Sharman is right on the edge of being in it. With another preseason under his belt he may well be demanding it.


Billings I thing just lacks some self belief. So he gets the snap goals when he does not have to think about it, but wilts for the set shots.



I rate Highmore higher than Lienert though. Highmore the better intercept mark and defensive player. Lienert the better kick, but defensively is loose.