Player Watch Daniel Curtin - Debut

[FR0GGY]

If the coach was conducting a video review with Curtin there was only 1 goal that he would highlight for the lad to learn & improve. The second Ah Chee goal where at a bounce in their forward pocket Curtin let Ah Chee get goalside of him - classic rookie error.
Coaching blunder to go into the game with such a top heavy backline - 197cm Curtin on 182cm Ah Chee whose main strength is his lightning speed. In fact I suspect that it was an admission of fault that brought about the Curtin benching.

It’s a structural issue that we’ve always struggled with to have someone in the goal square, I cringe ever time there’s a stoppage 20 out

 

[eaglevision]

Sorry to unleash but the way Curtin is being used is absolute horseshit for him, his development and I can’t see how his role is actually helping the team. Playing kids on debut as the sub or subbing them is bullshit. Either make sure they have the tank to run out a game or wait until they do. You get one debut and remember it forever and there’s no way it doesn’t build resentment no matter which club it is.

Can somebody explain to me how in a very winnable game, an AFL coach leaves a near debutant to be dragged deep and forced to defend 1 on 1? Even as a neutral observer whose highest level of coaching is the under 11 reds who lost a heartbreaking elimination final in controversial circumstances, I could see exactly what Brisbane were doing. Why weren’t the magnets shifted immediately to disrupt the Lions plan and have him playing higher up the ground in a role that actually plays to his strengths of distribution and reading the play? Is he even enjoying his footy?

I can see a few have suggested the possibility a trade with us… If that materialised there’s no way it ends up being a straight swap Curtin for our 1R which is exactly was offered on draft night last year. I think that’s a tough pill for fans and AFC to swallow so unless they are prepared to accept that as the reality I can’t see how a trade gets done. I’m loathe to see players not seeing out their initial contract, destroys the integrity of the system but there’s no doubt we’re in his ear that he can be the 3rd tall behind Gov and Barrass on a HBF working towards chopping out in the midfield which is where he wants to play.

Are there not enough KPDs at the Crows where he could play that role? He’s going to be an absolute star, but Nicks and co are not making him think that. Look after him in a role that actually benefits the team and he’ll repay you by the bucket load.

And FFS use your first pick on the best mid available this year.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It’s a structural issue that we’ve always struggled with to have someone in the goal square, I cringe ever time there’s a stoppage 20 out

And when we actually have someone in the goalsquare Jones managed to slip over so Daniher's snap bounced through

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Imagining a future where Curtin leaves and Nicks stays is as dystopian as it gets.

 

[FR0GGY]

And when we actually have someone in the goalsquare Jones managed to slip over so Daniher's snap bounced through

He wasn’t supposed to be there he was looking for the wing

 

[dogs105]

Max was on Cameron for the first goal!
Keane was on Hipwood for his goal!
It’s simple maths from there on out!
So I suggest you watch again!

Was the Hipwood one the free for Curtin holding the jumper? Who was that if not?

 

[Disco Fox]

Was the Hipwood one the free for Curtin holding the jumper? Who was that if not?

Yes it was but I watched it a few minutes ago & it was the softest free kick!!

 

[dogs105]

Yes it was but I watched it a few minutes ago & it was the softest free kick!!

Grabbing a handful of jumper makes it easy for the umpire to pay it though.

 

[JADED]

Sorry to unleash but the way Curtin is being used is absolute horseshit for him, his development and I can’t see how his role is actually helping the team. Playing kids on debut as the sub or subbing them is bullshit. Either make sure they have the tank to run out a game or wait until they do. You get one debut and remember it forever and there’s no way it doesn’t build resentment no matter which club it is.

Can somebody explain to me how in a very winnable game, an AFL coach leaves a near debutant to be dragged deep and forced to defend 1 on 1? Even as a neutral observer whose highest level of coaching is the under 11 reds who lost a heartbreaking elimination final in controversial circumstances, I could see exactly what Brisbane were doing. Why weren’t the magnets shifted immediately to disrupt the Lions plan and have him playing higher up the ground in a role that actually plays to his strengths of distribution and reading the play? Is he even enjoying his footy?

I can see a few have suggested the possibility a trade with us… If that materialised there’s no way it ends up being a straight swap Curtin for our 1R which is exactly was offered on draft night last year. I think that’s a tough pill for fans and AFC to swallow so unless they are prepared to accept that as the reality I can’t see how a trade gets done. I’m loathe to see players not seeing out their initial contract, destroys the integrity of the system but there’s no doubt we’re in his ear that he can be the 3rd tall behind Gov and Barrass on a HBF working towards chopping out in the midfield which is where he wants to play.

Are there not enough KPDs at the Crows where he could play that role? He’s going to be an absolute star, but Nicks and co are not making him think that. Look after him in a role that actually benefits the team and he’ll repay you by the bucket load.

And FFS use your first pick on the best mid available this year.

Wanted to come and post something like this (respectfully of course)
Last week in a showdown win, I would've left him out there to soak it up for sure.
This rounds draw against Brisbane, he probably had to be moved but prior the vest, absolutely not being used to his ability or brought into that game at all by team mates. (Probably needs to be around Tex for that to happen as he seems the only bloke who'd choose to bring Curtin into the game)

Now just wait for him to be dropped this week.

As for us poaching him, he has a 3 year contract so it's on Adelaide's terms. Doubt we'd get him for unders but it is bizarre Adelaide turned down our first this year to take Curtin.

 

[dogs105]

Sorry to unleash but the way Curtin is being used is absolute horseshit for him, his development and I can’t see how his role is actually helping the team. Playing kids on debut as the sub or subbing them is bullshit. Either make sure they have the tank to run out a game or wait until they do. You get one debut and remember it forever and there’s no way it doesn’t build resentment no matter which club it is.

Can somebody explain to me how in a very winnable game, an AFL coach leaves a near debutant to be dragged deep and forced to defend 1 on 1? Even as a neutral observer whose highest level of coaching is the under 11 reds who lost a heartbreaking elimination final in controversial circumstances, I could see exactly what Brisbane were doing. Why weren’t the magnets shifted immediately to disrupt the Lions plan and have him playing higher up the ground in a role that actually plays to his strengths of distribution and reading the play? Is he even enjoying his footy?

I can see a few have suggested the possibility a trade with us… If that materialised there’s no way it ends up being a straight swap Curtin for our 1R which is exactly was offered on draft night last year. I think that’s a tough pill for fans and AFC to swallow so unless they are prepared to accept that as the reality I can’t see how a trade gets done. I’m loathe to see players not seeing out their initial contract, destroys the integrity of the system but there’s no doubt we’re in his ear that he can be the 3rd tall behind Gov and Barrass on a HBF working towards chopping out in the midfield which is where he wants to play.

Are there not enough KPDs at the Crows where he could play that role? He’s going to be an absolute star, but Nicks and co are not making him think that. Look after him in a role that actually benefits the team and he’ll repay you by the bucket load.

And FFS use your first pick on the best mid available this year.

Choir. Preaching to.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Get lost, Nicks. You’re ruining this club.

Real coaches tell the young lad “go for it, son. Make a mistake, don’t worry, we’ve got you”.

Instead let’s sub him at every opportunity.

This is not a kiddies game ....AFL is win / loss .....you wouldn't and haven't accepted losses

Yet you now come out with an argument that's saying we'll tolerate losses, as long as you play the kids

I don't frankly believe the message you're selling

This was a similar outcry to when Tex Walker first started, and Craig kept dropping him .....even recently, Tex has said that tough love was the best thing for his career

In 2 years time, no-one will remember the odd game a rookie gets dropped for .......Phil Davis was dropped after winning a Rising Star .....does anyone care about that, after the career he had .....nah

 

[Cleric]

Sorry to unleash but the way Curtin is being used is absolute horseshit for him, his development and I can’t see how his role is actually helping the team. Playing kids on debut as the sub or subbing them is bullshit. Either make sure they have the tank to run out a game or wait until they do. You get one debut and remember it forever and there’s no way it doesn’t build resentment no matter which club it is.

Can somebody explain to me how in a very winnable game, an AFL coach leaves a near debutant to be dragged deep and forced to defend 1 on 1? Even as a neutral observer whose highest level of coaching is the under 11 reds who lost a heartbreaking elimination final in controversial circumstances, I could see exactly what Brisbane were doing. Why weren’t the magnets shifted immediately to disrupt the Lions plan and have him playing higher up the ground in a role that actually plays to his strengths of distribution and reading the play? Is he even enjoying his footy?

I can see a few have suggested the possibility a trade with us… If that materialised there’s no way it ends up being a straight swap Curtin for our 1R which is exactly was offered on draft night last year. I think that’s a tough pill for fans and AFC to swallow so unless they are prepared to accept that as the reality I can’t see how a trade gets done. I’m loathe to see players not seeing out their initial contract, destroys the integrity of the system but there’s no doubt we’re in his ear that he can be the 3rd tall behind Gov and Barrass on a HBF working towards chopping out in the midfield which is where he wants to play.

Are there not enough KPDs at the Crows where he could play that role? He’s going to be an absolute star, but Nicks and co are not making him think that. Look after him in a role that actually benefits the team and he’ll repay you by the bucket load.

And FFS use your first pick on the best mid available this year.

There is things we don't know.
Maybe this is the way the club thinks is best to blood him. He has gotten a taste, and now his nerves would be lessened.
Being a KFD is probably the worst position for a young kid to be exposed to at the highest level. He is up against full bodied and experienced forwards who could tear his confidence to peices if he was given a whole game and got 5 kicked on him.
One thing you have to understand, is our club is second to none with developing good key defenders.

As for taking WCs First for him, yeah, that could be one for the ages debate wise.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

Oh ffs.

Everybody whinged when we didn't rush him in. "Why are we playing him in the sanfl and making him defend?"

Because when he plays in the AFL, he will have to defend. His offensive game is fine, needs some practise at the defensive aspects.

Yes, he coughed up 5 goals today. Needed to be subbed off.

But the kid will still be a champion. This is just what it looks like when you play the kids. Maybe give him 2 weeks in the sanfl on the best forward. Or maybe just back him in in the AFL. Either way, the kid will be fine long term.

Agree with everything else you are saying but can we really say playing him defensively at AFL level is for his own development when we’ve also only played him 5 quarters in his first two games?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This is not a kiddies game ....AFL is win / loss .....you wouldn't and haven't accepted losses

Yet you now come out with an argument that's saying we'll tolerate losses, as long as you play the kids

I don't frankly believe the message you're selling

This was a similar outcry to when Tex Walker first started, and Craig kept dropping him .....even recently, Tex has said that tough love was the best thing for his career

In 2 years time, no-one will remember the odd game a rookie gets dropped for .......Phil Davis was dropped after winning a Rising Star .....does anyone care about that, after the career he had .....nah

Didn't Davis walk out?

I wonder if Jake Lever was happy to get dropped for the 2015 finals? Once we explained the experience factor he would have been cool with it probably

If it's about win/loss then fire Nicks instantly. His record is the worst in the club's history.

If there's a rebuild/development element to his role though, then do that

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Didn't Davis walk out?

I wonder if Jake Lever was happy to get dropped for the 2016 finals? Once we explained the experience factor he would have been cool with it probably

If it's about win/loss then fire Nicks instantly. His record is the worst in the club's history.

If there's a rebuild/development element to his role though, then do that

You're confusing the line between rebuild / development ....and the next stage

Understand that line is arguable .....it's my opinion though, that line was crossed at the end of 2023

Over Summer, most here commented about the likely impact of the losses of Murray and to a lesser degree Shoenburg ...then we had the loss of Thilthorpe, who was headed for a breakout season .....and then Pedlar
That's 4 x best 22 players missing

None of those player losses can explain away those early losses ....it was a shemozzle

But due credit must also be applied to turn that shemozzle back into a highly competitive unit ....Dawson back in form, Soligo demonstrating star status .....Nankervis, after a horrid season start, going from strength to strength

No, the discussion around playing or subbing Curtin ....is an ongoing debate every club has, every year
It's also happened to Sanders from the WB .....Reid, and McKercher

Re Lever, and others, there's an entitlement factor with Top 10 selections ....a factor I cannot see in Curtin .....he's going to be a ripper, he knows where he has to improve

 

[Peter Doherty]

Sorry to unleash but the way Curtin is being used is absolute horseshit for him, his development and I can’t see how his role is actually helping the team. Playing kids on debut as the sub or subbing them is bullshit. Either make sure they have the tank to run out a game or wait until they do. You get one debut and remember it forever and there’s no way it doesn’t build resentment no matter which club it is.

Can somebody explain to me how in a very winnable game, an AFL coach leaves a near debutant to be dragged deep and forced to defend 1 on 1? Even as a neutral observer whose highest level of coaching is the under 11 reds who lost a heartbreaking elimination final in controversial circumstances, I could see exactly what Brisbane were doing. Why weren’t the magnets shifted immediately to disrupt the Lions plan and have him playing higher up the ground in a role that actually plays to his strengths of distribution and reading the play? Is he even enjoying his footy?

I can see a few have suggested the possibility a trade with us… If that materialised there’s no way it ends up being a straight swap Curtin for our 1R which is exactly was offered on draft night last year. I think that’s a tough pill for fans and AFC to swallow so unless they are prepared to accept that as the reality I can’t see how a trade gets done. I’m loathe to see players not seeing out their initial contract, destroys the integrity of the system but there’s no doubt we’re in his ear that he can be the 3rd tall behind Gov and Barrass on a HBF working towards chopping out in the midfield which is where he wants to play.

Are there not enough KPDs at the Crows where he could play that role? He’s going to be an absolute star, but Nicks and co are not making him think that. Look after him in a role that actually benefits the team and he’ll repay you by the bucket load.

And FFS use your first pick on the best mid available this year.

While I agree with most of this, it's a pretty s**t move going on an oppo board and puffing your chest on how a potential trade would go down.

 

[Captain Furious]

We seem to be forgetting there's another team and set of coaches - we don't get to decide how everything goes. If Brisbane saw how often Curtin was beaten by SANFL forwards, then good on them for doing their homework and dragging him deep. Even if he plays on a wing, that can happen. He can't just let a player go because he's not comfortable playing on the last line.

And no, he wasn't playing as a KPD. But everyone needs to play on someone. You don't get a free ride because you're a rookie.

Had to get subbed, he was losing the game on his own. And that's fine, he's 19 and has played 2 games. Think he'll be a star but he doesn't need to be now. What he does need to learn is this is professional sport and actions have consequences, even for high draft picks.

 

[Pugsley]

The can't rush kids argument is bullshit. It's about player development. Caleb Windsor and Colby McKercher are two rookies that seem to be going well.

 

[Pugsley]

Sorry to unleash but the way Curtin is being used is absolute horseshit for him, his development and I can’t see how his role is actually helping the team. Playing kids on debut as the sub or subbing them is bullshit. Either make sure they have the tank to run out a game or wait until they do. You get one debut and remember it forever and there’s no way it doesn’t build resentment no matter which club it is.

Can somebody explain to me how in a very winnable game, an AFL coach leaves a near debutant to be dragged deep and forced to defend 1 on 1? Even as a neutral observer whose highest level of coaching is the under 11 reds who lost a heartbreaking elimination final in controversial circumstances, I could see exactly what Brisbane were doing. Why weren’t the magnets shifted immediately to disrupt the Lions plan and have him playing higher up the ground in a role that actually plays to his strengths of distribution and reading the play? Is he even enjoying his footy?

I can see a few have suggested the possibility a trade with us… If that materialised there’s no way it ends up being a straight swap Curtin for our 1R which is exactly was offered on draft night last year. I think that’s a tough pill for fans and AFC to swallow so unless they are prepared to accept that as the reality I can’t see how a trade gets done. I’m loathe to see players not seeing out their initial contract, destroys the integrity of the system but there’s no doubt we’re in his ear that he can be the 3rd tall behind Gov and Barrass on a HBF working towards chopping out in the midfield which is where he wants to play.

Are there not enough KPDs at the Crows where he could play that role? He’s going to be an absolute star, but Nicks and co are not making him think that. Look after him in a role that actually benefits the team and he’ll repay you by the bucket load.

And FFS use your first pick on the best mid available this year.

Preach

 

[eaglevision]

While I agree with most of this, it's a pretty s**t move going on an oppo board and puffing your chest on how a potential trade would go down.

I wasn’t doing that at all, just saw a couple of comments in this thread about him being traded to WC which is what I was responding to. The point of the post was Curtin’s utilisation by the Crows coaching staff and if you look I actually said I don’t like the idea of draftees breaking their initial contract so to say I’m puffing my chest out about a trade is a bit wide of the mark. I’d hope there’s a few in here that know as a guest I post on your board respectfully.

 

[Pugsley]

I wasn’t doing that at all, just saw a couple of comments in this thread about him being traded to WC which is what I was responding to. The point of the post was Curtin’s utilisation by the Crows coaching staff and if you look I actually said I don’t like the idea of draftees breaking their initial contract so to say I’m puffing my chest out about a trade is a bit wide of the mark. I’d hope there’s a few in here that know as a guest I post on your board respectfully.

You would do better with him than the clowns we have.

 

[Peter Doherty]

I wasn’t doing that at all, just saw a couple of comments in this thread about him being traded to WC which is what I was responding to. The point of the post was Curtin’s utilisation by the Crows coaching staff and if you look I actually said I don’t like the idea of draftees breaking their initial contract so to say I’m puffing my chest out about a trade is a bit wide of the mark. I’d hope there’s a few in here that know as a guest I post on your board respectfully.

Yeah that was the bulk of it which I said I agree with. It's the trade commet that was poor.

 

[Jarman3]

What I don't understand is that we seem to have a policy against using a player as the sub 2 weeks in a row. If they're sub one week, they're either in the 22 the week after or dropped to the SANFL. I think this is something to do with making sure players get enough game time ie they don't spend 2 consecutive weeks warming the bench. Which is fine, but if that's the case why would you "tactically" sub out the same player 2 weeks in a row? Especially at half time (when you're leading, no less) FFS. What's the difference? Either way he's not getting a full game for 2 consecutive weeks.

 

[NSolis]

You are wrong he was not on hipwood and he was not on Cameron, that leaves 4 goals Brisbane scored in the first half, unless you are attributing another goal to him while he was subbed.
So no it’s not fact at all Wayne, it’s blatantly wrong.
I know you won’t respond as it’s what you do when you get shown up.

To me it's 4 goals that are were related to Curtin errors, noting that obviously no goal is just one player's fault etc.

Morris kicked two goals on him, the first in particular was a poor defensive effort where Curtin went for the ball and got nowhere near it, Morris got goal side of him and ran into goal. The second was one where Curtin had a pretty clear chance to kill the ball for a behind and didn't do so resulting in a goal.

Ah Chee's first goal was from a stoppage where Curtin let Ah Chee get goalside of him from the stoppage for an easy goal, just a normal error of inexperience. And Hipwood's goal was from a free kick that Curtin gave away. This is the one where Keane took an intercept mark in front of Hipwood but the free was given because Curtin was holding Hipwood in the leadup.

Regardless of how much blame we attribute to Curtin for each goal he was certainly at least partially at fault. The other two goals had nothing to do with Curtin, and as you say he was never on Cameron.

 

[Scorpus]

Curtin having those goals kicked on him is a simple case of Nicks being tactically outcoached by Fagan

Fagan saw a potential weakness and took full advantage to exploit it

If Nicks wanted to play Curtin (which seems questionable, but I'm giving him the benefit that it was 100% his decision), he should have had a better plan for where and how to play him.

Playing him in that way against a strong forward line with little support and his level of experience and attributes is bad coaching.

It's bad coaching to go "oh no, this debutant got goals kicked on him, now we have to sub him out of the game"

Maybe have a better system in place so the least experienced player in the team, which you chose to play, isn't exploited by the opposition in that way, which they were likely to try and engineer?