David Mcbride's trial started today.

[ferball]

He's facing life in prison.

 

[GreyWind]

He's facing life in prison.

An absolute ****ing disgrace that reporting war crimes is going to end up with him in more trouble than the perpetrators.

Our government has been absolutely deplorable over this whole period.

 

[Rob R]

An absolute ******* disgrace that reporting war crimes is going to end up with him in more trouble than the perpetrators.

Our government has been absolutely deplorable over this whole period.

The problem based on the ABC articles indicates that he didn't just hand over documents about alleged war crimes but on a range of classified and very legal issues which whistleblowing doesn't excuse.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CM86]

I had a lot of respect for Dreyfus, and still do for a lot of what he has done recently.



But I cannot see a reason that he isn't able to do something about this injustice.

They acted for Bernard Collaery, but haven't done anything to expose what really happened there.


I understand that it could have a much larger impact in areas we are not aware of, due to setting precedent. But what is the point of Whistleblower protection acts if nothing ever comes of it, except for the Whistleblowers having their lives and the lives of anyone around them, destroyed?


And that's only on the cases made public.
What about the secret trials that we haven't even heard about? That we've never even known existed?

 

[ferball]

I had a lot of respect for Dreyfus, and still do for a lot of what he has done recently.



But I cannot see a reason that he isn't able to do something about this injustice.

They acted for Bernard Collaery, but haven't done anything to expose what really happened there.


I understand that it could have a much larger impact in areas we are not aware of, due to setting precedent. But what is the point of Whistleblower protection acts if nothing ever comes of it, except for the Whistleblowers having their lives and the lives of anyone around them, destroyed?


And that's only on the cases made public.
What about the secret trials that we haven't even heard about? That we've never even known existed?

Yep.

Been a bad century for that sort of abuse of power.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The problem based on the ABC articles indicates that he didn't just hand over documents about alleged war crimes but on a range of classified and very legal issues which whistleblowing doesn't excuse.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

What sort of "classified and very legal issues" are we talking about?

 

[Al Heimer]

What sort of "classified and very legal issues" are we talking about?

Probably stuff no one can verify actually exists and is just a bullshit govt frame up.

On SM-A426B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rob R]

What sort of "classified and very legal issues" are we talking about?

Afghan Files expose deadly secrets of Australia's special forces

Secret defence force documents obtained by the ABC give an unprecedented insight into the clandestine operations of Australia's elite special forces in Afghanistan, detailing incidents of troops killing unarmed men and children and concerns about a "warrior culture" among soldiers.

www.abc.net.au

The ABC article itself advise that some of the papers they were given cover a lot more.than just alleged war crimes particularly 5 and 7.

By "very legal", I was referring to the ROE guidance which are written by lawyers and cleared by the minister. Note I am not suggesting war crimes were or were not committed or that he did not whistleblow on what he believed were genuine concerns- I don't have the evidence to read from.

I am just noting that the leaked papers appear to be broader than just reports about incidents based on the ABC articles.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Afghan Files expose deadly secrets of Australia's special forces

Secret defence force documents obtained by the ABC give an unprecedented insight into the clandestine operations of Australia's elite special forces in Afghanistan, detailing incidents of troops killing unarmed men and children and concerns about a "warrior culture" among soldiers.

www.abc.net.au

The ABC article itself advise that some of the papers they were given cover a lot more.than just alleged war crimes particularly 5 and 7.

By "very legal", I was referring to the ROE guidance which are written by lawyers and cleared by the minister. Note I am not suggesting war crimes were or were not committed or that he did not whistleblow on what he believed were genuine concerns- I don't have the evidence to read from.

I am just noting that the leaked papers appear to be broader than just reports about incidents based on the ABC articles.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I've only skimmed over but those things would seem to be in the public interest. It's quite disgraceful that people exposing crimes suffer worse fates than those committing them.

 

[Gralin]

Yep so according to our courts if you're asked to commit war crimes shut up and do it.

BRS is a free man
McBride is going to go to jail

This appears to have bipartisan support which is a scary thing

 

[fs88]

What the hell is going on with Labor lately. They seem to be the lite-Libs.

What’s the play with McBride pleading guilty? Is it to get the case over and done with and then appeal to the higher court?

Absolutely insane that BRS and his war crime mates are free and McBride is going through all of this.

 

[Osho]

What the hell is going on with Labor lately. They seem to be the lite-Libs.

What’s the play with McBride pleading guilty? Is it to get the case over and done with and then appeal to the higher court?

Absolutely insane that BRS and his war crime mates are free and McBride is going through all of this.

I assume the guilty plea reduces the potential sentence, as well as still allowing for an appeal on public interest grounds?

Though the crown also says public interest of national security trumps public interest of transparency?

More questions than answers.

Whistleblower protection seems limited, and needs better legislation. National security concerns, that old canard. Step up ALP.

 

[nut]

How many US government lawyers are in town at the moment I wonder.

 

[Rob R]

What the hell is going on with Labor lately. They seem to be the lite-Libs.

What’s the play with McBride pleading guilty? Is it to get the case over and done with and then appeal to the higher court?

Absolutely insane that BRS and his war crime mates are free and McBride is going through all of this.

Perhaps pleading guilty because some of the classified documents he released had nothing to do with war crimes so he had no defence for that part. Hence the guilty to some charges and others dropped.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jerry springer]

People need to do a deeper dive on this, the guy is not stable, he wanted to be one of the lads

have a good read what he was actually initially trying to push up the chain this guy wasn't whistle blowing like you think, he was trying to protect the SAS more

David McBride’s whistleblower defence crashes

The criminal trial of David McBride has come to an abrupt end, as a serious blow to his defence led him to plead guilty to three charges, raising concerns about the implications for future whistleblowers.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

Patricia McDonald, SC, for the Crown, made brief mention on Monday and Tuesday of the prosecution’s intention to show McBride’s leaks were not driven by concern about alleged war crimes in Afghanistan, but his contention that the Australian Special Air Service (SAS) personnel there were being investigated too much.

McBride felt the “over-investigation of special forces troops was not in the public interest”, McDonald said, adding that “reference to something as nebulous as the public interest” was no basis for the actions of military personnel.


and

'What I've done makes sense to me': The complicated, colourful life of David McBride

Oxford graduate, British army officer, African adventurer, reality TV star, political candidate, and the man at the heart of the leak that prompted this month's ABC raids.

www.smh.com.au

At the centre of his complaint lies a 2013 Defence directive to Australian soldiers stating they needed a high degree of confidence that anyone they fired upon was "directly participating in hostilities". If not, a soldier could be "exposed to criminal and disciplinary liability, including potentially the war crime of murder", according to the ABC's reports on the documents McBride leaked.

McBride argues this change increased the scrutiny of special forces missions. The hazard of possible murder investigations left the Australians hamstrung.

read this whole SMH article and you get a bit of a idea that this guy is a fruitloop, he is all over the shop

 

[Demonic Ascent]

People need to do a deeper dive on this, the guy is not stable, he wanted to be one of the lads

have a good read what he was actually initially trying to push up the chain this guy wasn't whistle blowing like you think, he was trying to protect the SAS more

David McBride’s whistleblower defence crashes

The criminal trial of David McBride has come to an abrupt end, as a serious blow to his defence led him to plead guilty to three charges, raising concerns about the implications for future whistleblowers.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

Patricia McDonald, SC, for the Crown, made brief mention on Monday and Tuesday of the prosecution’s intention to show McBride’s leaks were not driven by concern about alleged war crimes in Afghanistan, but his contention that the Australian Special Air Service (SAS) personnel there were being investigated too much.

McBride felt the “over-investigation of special forces troops was not in the public interest”, McDonald said, adding that “reference to something as nebulous as the public interest” was no basis for the actions of military personnel.


and

'What I've done makes sense to me': The complicated, colourful life of David McBride

Oxford graduate, British army officer, African adventurer, reality TV star, political candidate, and the man at the heart of the leak that prompted this month's ABC raids.

www.smh.com.au

At the centre of his complaint lies a 2013 Defence directive to Australian soldiers stating they needed a high degree of confidence that anyone they fired upon was "directly participating in hostilities". If not, a soldier could be "exposed to criminal and disciplinary liability, including potentially the war crime of murder", according to the ABC's reports on the documents McBride leaked.

McBride argues this change increased the scrutiny of special forces missions. The hazard of possible murder investigations left the Australians hamstrung.

read this whole SMH article and you get a bit of a idea that this guy is a fruitloop, he is all over the shop

Is he being tried for being a fruitloop?

 

[Gralin]

Is he being tried for being a fruitloop?

No he's being tried for tarnishing the reputation of the military

 

[jerry springer]

this one isn't as it seems, will leave it at that

 

[Demonic Ascent]

this one isn't as it seems, will leave it at that

It doesn't matter what his motives were, his trial is to make an example to future whistleblowers.

 

[Gralin]

It doesn't matter what his motives were, his trial is to make an example to future whistleblowers.

Absolutely

 

[jerry springer]

It doesn't matter what his motives were, his trial is to make an example to future whistleblowers.

his original motives were exactly the point, he didn't want the regiment investigated

then he flipped for quite a few different reasons

Im all about whistle-blowing, its needed in society and I agree this whole process has been handled very poorly

there is just a bit more that meets the eye in this particular case, he isn't some white knight

 

[Gralin]

Ah the perfect victim narrative

 

[Gethelred]

What the hell is going on with Labor lately. They seem to be the lite-Libs.

What’s the play with McBride pleading guilty? Is it to get the case over and done with and then appeal to the higher court?

Absolutely insane that BRS and his war crime mates are free and McBride is going through all of this.

Lately?

Kim Beazeley's campaign prior to the Tampa and children overboard was identical to Howard, hoping to exploit Howard's low approval rating as PM. This has been going on for a long, long time.

 

[schneebly111]

People need to do a deeper dive on this, the guy is not stable, he wanted to be one of the lads

have a good read what he was actually initially trying to push up the chain this guy wasn't whistle blowing like you think, he was trying to protect the SAS more

David McBride’s whistleblower defence crashes

The criminal trial of David McBride has come to an abrupt end, as a serious blow to his defence led him to plead guilty to three charges, raising concerns about the implications for future whistleblowers.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

Patricia McDonald, SC, for the Crown, made brief mention on Monday and Tuesday of the prosecution’s intention to show McBride’s leaks were not driven by concern about alleged war crimes in Afghanistan, but his contention that the Australian Special Air Service (SAS) personnel there were being investigated too much.

McBride felt the “over-investigation of special forces troops was not in the public interest”, McDonald said, adding that “reference to something as nebulous as the public interest” was no basis for the actions of military personnel.


and

'What I've done makes sense to me': The complicated, colourful life of David McBride

Oxford graduate, British army officer, African adventurer, reality TV star, political candidate, and the man at the heart of the leak that prompted this month's ABC raids.

www.smh.com.au

At the centre of his complaint lies a 2013 Defence directive to Australian soldiers stating they needed a high degree of confidence that anyone they fired upon was "directly participating in hostilities". If not, a soldier could be "exposed to criminal and disciplinary liability, including potentially the war crime of murder", according to the ABC's reports on the documents McBride leaked.

McBride argues this change increased the scrutiny of special forces missions. The hazard of possible murder investigations left the Australians hamstrung.

read this whole SMH article and you get a bit of a idea that this guy is a fruitloop, he is all over the shop

I mean what did he expect?

Up until the ABC’s publication of the Afghan Files in 2017 the whole narrative presented to the public was ‘our boys’ were infallible heroes who never put a foot wrong.

McBride leaks info about investigations into war crimes (outright murders of non combatants) and then is shocked when the journalists write the story from the POV that ‘our boys’ aren’t the heroes they were made out to be?

Did he really think the ABC were Sky After Dark and we’re going to push a neocon ‘out troops shouldn’t be questioned’ line?

 

[Gralin]

his original motives were exactly the point, he didn't want the regiment investigated

then he flipped for quite a few different reasons

Im all about whistle-blowing, its needed in society and I agree this whole process has been handled very poorly

there is just a bit more that meets the eye in this particular case, he isn't some white knight

the motives shouldn't matter

this narrative gets used a lot to try and discredit whistleblowers

what should matter is what has come out and what is done about it, also whether the person who brought this to light gets protected or punished for it

the latter certainly impacts the chances of people coming forward in the future