Demographic statistics

[McCrann]

Perth has a population of 1.8 million and only 2 teams. (40% of melbourne's population and 20% of the teams) Per capita interest in footy was similar to SA and VIC but it is starting to wane amongst young people due to the lack of access. And this is something the AFL are keenly aware of.

The stadium (both the current one of 44k and the planned one of only 60k) are tiny in comparison to the population and the number of games. If the proposed stadium was available tomorrow, it would still mean that afl seats per week, per capita is the lowest in WA of the footy states.

This has a number of effects:
- the average high school kid in WA has not been to a game and never will.
- the % of the population that get to even just one game a year is very low.
- young people are waning in their support because they do not have the hands on interaction that the vic kids get
- ticket prices are exorbitant.

The ticket price thing is a travesty. You can get a family of four in Melbourne an 11 game unallocated seat membership to the pies for cheaper than a single standard quality 11 game seat for Freo and West Coast. Do not be fooled by the fact the WA teams advertise a budget membership - this is only a couple of thousand seats that were locked in years ago.

Collingwood has the highest income in the league and the exorbitant ticket prices in WA mean the WestCoast and Freo are 2nd and 3rd - despite not having any pokie revenue due to WA gaming laws.

If you are looking at the actual numbers of unsatisfied potential AFL club members, the 3rd WA team is way ahead of Tassie, Canberra and even the Gold Coast and GWS business cases.

As a Freo fan I know it would be bad for my club and I wish there was a way out of it. But if the AFL do not bang a third team in WA, they are fools.

Very sensible post from someone on the ground in WA. With the new stadium, a third team would guarantee 33 games and 6 derbies each year. It's an absolute no-brainer for 2020 or so. Even making the comp 19 teams for a few years might be worth it.

It would be ideal if the 3rd Perth team could get the jump on the 1st NRL team which will no doubt be on the way soooon.

 

[Canary]

Definite market for a Joondalup, Mandurah or Armadale team.

 

[The_Reaper]

Definite market for a Joondalup, Mandurah or Armadale team.

I disagree.

 

[Kwality]

Definite market for a Joondalup, Mandurah or Armadale team.

What nonsense - are the market currently uncommitted followers of our game?

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

What nonsense - are the market currently uncommitted followers of our game?

They would all swap over to the new clubs just like the supporters of smaller relocated clubs, wouldn't they?

After all, it's all about location and service, so I expect swathes of under serviced Joondalup and Mandurah based Eagle and Dockers fans to jump ship straight away.

 

[Kwality]

They would all swap over to the new clubs just like the supporters of smaller relocated clubs, wouldn't they?

After all, it's all about location and service, so I expect swathes of under serviced Joondalup and Mandurah based Eagle and Dockers fans to jump ship straight away.

Underserviced, what a great theory ... if you were hanging out to see an AFL game, 25k seats were empty for the NAB Cup game Eagles & the Pies. These people must be desperate to see a game.

Walk up is not in psyche of WA fans these days.

 

[Barkly St End]

Not sure if you can draw conclusions from pre-season games.

What is undeniable is that:
1. the Eagles, and maybe Freo, have waiting lists for memberships;
2. Perth will continue to grow in population and economic terms well, well, well into the future.

 

[Kwality]

Not sure if you can draw conclusions from pre-season games.

What is undeniable is that:
1. the Eagles, and maybe Freo, have waiting lists for memberships;
2. Perth will continue to grow in population and economic terms well, well, well into the future.

No argument here, but people mindlessly suggest Eagles & Freo fans will be attracted to a new club is a step too far for most fans of the WA clubs.

If its just taking the kids to a game, not sure the NAB Cup is unattractive.

 

[madmug]

No argument here, but people mindlessly suggest Eagles & Freo fans will be attracted to a new club is a step too far for most fans of the WA clubs.

If its just taking the kids to a game, not sure the NAB Cup is unattractive.

Mindless? Thanks very much. I thought the discussion was quite sound. Their are obvious economic & demographic reasons to look at a 3rd WA team. Just as their are the same set of reasons for reviewing the number of Victorian based Suburban teams who are obviously not ( & probably never were ) up to being in a national level competition.
If anything the some might say that the opposition to a 3rd WA team is 'mindless', but I wouldnt say it like that.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

The Arrogant Bloc

Adelaide
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Fremantle
Hawthorn
Richmond
West Coast

The Norther expansion teams

Brisbane
Gold Coast
GWS
Sydney

The Battlers

Melbourne
North Melbourne
Port Adelaide
StKilda
Western Bulldogs

The Dignified Club

Geelong

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to see "The Bloc" form a break away league so I could sit back and watch them all cannabalise and destroy each other. Piss them off I say. Hawthorn would fall first, closely followed by Richmond. Carlton would then become the minnow.

The remaining non "Bloc" clubs could then create a Tassie side and a Perth side to form a 12 team national competition.

 

[madmug]

The Arrogant Bloc


It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to see "The Bloc" form a break away league so I could sit back and watch them all cannabalise and destroy each other. Piss them off I say. Hawthorn would fall first, closely followed by Richmond. Carlton would then become the minnow.

The remaining clubs could then create a Tassie side and a Perth side to form a 12 team national competition.

The AFL wont implode like the NRL & super league did. However the pressure is on.
Clearly some clubs arent up to it. The AFL & some supporters need to face that fact. You can call some clubs arrogant. Maybe they are just being prudent & worrying about the viability of their clubs & the league if they keep propping some clubs up & looking at taxing others who have done the work.
The whole league needs a review from OUTSIDE. Not another inside job.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

The AFL wont implode like the NRL & super league did. However the pressure is on.
Clearly some clubs arent up to it. The AFL & some supporters need to face that fact. You can call some clubs arrogant. Maybe they are just being prudent & worrying about the viability of their clubs & the league if they keep propping some clubs up & looking at taxing others who have done the work.
The whole league needs a review from OUTSIDE. Not another inside job.

You're incapable of understanding all the nuances involved and you are displaying your ignorance by making emphatic broad sweeping declarations.

As for being "up to it", the bigger clubs get beaten regularly by the smaller clubs on the football field. It's a rubbish statement.

When we cut through all the bullshit, the richer clubs are only interested in turning their financial advantages in to on field advantages, because they don't have the spine to compete on a level playing field. This, in a nutshell, is the problem. They are over privileged cowards.

 

[madmug]

You're incapable of understanding all the nuances involved and you are displaying your ignorance by making emphatic broad sweeping declarations.

As for being "up to it", the bigger clubs get beaten regularly by the smaller clubs on the football field. It's a rubbish statement.

When we cut through all the bullshit, the richer clubs are only interested in turning their financial advantages in to on field advantages, because they don't have the spine to compete on a level playing field. This, in a nutshell, is the problem. They are over privileged cowards.

If it wasnt for the Draft & the salary cap your so called battler clubs wouldnt exist!!!!!!!! Now they want caps on footy departments & tax on bigger clubs. What you will end up with is 18 clubs that have been socialised to hold their hand out for money & not take responsibility for their weaknesses.
You havent got a clue as to what a level playing field really is.
The AFL was supposed to be the top professional national league for Australian rules football. NOT the life support system for busted arse Victorian suburban clubs who were given a free ride into the competition & have shown that they really just cant cut it.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

If it wasnt for the Draft & the salary cap your so called battler clubs wouldnt exist!!!!!!!!

Melbourne, Geelong and North Melbourne wrote the first set of league rules for this game 15 years before there was any such thing as a Collingwood Football Club.

If it wasn't for the past decade of grossly favorable Victorian draws given to your club on a platter, Collingwood would be dwarfed by the Eagles, Freo and Adelaide. This is your problem. You are incapable of seeing the entire picture.

I honestly hope you do jump in bed with them and form a break away league. They will be pushing you around inside 20 years.

 

[Kwality]

Mindless? Thanks very much. I thought the discussion was quite sound. Their are obvious economic & demographic reasons to look at a 3rd WA team. Just as their are the same set of reasons for reviewing the number of Victorian based Suburban teams who are obviously not ( & probably never were ) up to being in a national level competition.
If anything the some might say that the opposition to a 3rd WA team is 'mindless', but I wouldnt say it like that.

I regret you taking offence mug, mindless in that a 3rd team in WA hangs on a couple of stats, ignoring passion that underlies our support for the game. Mindless in that it would appeal to those with not any understanding of the support for the WA clubs, just as the Pies enjoy.
The same stats might support reallocating Pies support to other Melbourne based clubs, but that would not be regarded as mindless, more like cloud cuckoo land.

Additionally, I see our competition as elite, & more clubs simply dilute the product, e.g the NAB Cup result Bombers & Giants.

 

[madmug]

I think you are jumping at shadows. But lets look at the 'entire picture' if you like.Your old VFL clubs were a factional split from the VFA. All happy to go off & look after themselves at that time.
The VFL clubs all went into the AFL, if stuffed WAFL.SANFL & Tassie footy. No tears for them. I also note the AFL tore the VFA apart & called it the VFL. They aligned some AFL clubs reserves when running the twos was too expensive. I see now the AFL clubs want to split again & run their own reserves. That will kill a lot more 100 year old VFA clubs. No concern their I see.
The clubs you call battlers & dignified are just as greedy, ruthless & destructive as the clubs you call arrogant. Its about time you realised the the AFL is arrogant & people like you only care about what you want. No care & interest in the health of Australian rules as a whole. You are only interested in what your club can suck out of the rest of the country.

 

[madmug]

I regret you taking offence mug, mindless in that a 3rd team in WA hangs on a couple of stats, ignoring passion that underlies our support for the game. Mindless in that it would appeal to those with not any understanding of the support for the WA clubs, just as the Pies enjoy.
The same stats might support reallocating Pies support to other Melbourne based clubs, but that would not be regarded as mindless, more like cloud cuckoo land.

Additionally, I see our competition as elite, & more clubs simply dilute the product, e.g the NAB Cup result Bombers & Giants.

I took umbridge at the term mindless.
I understand passion but to ignore the plain demographic & economic facts of too many Victorian suburban clubs & not enough in WA is so plainly self evident to me.
Wa has gone from having its own dominant league, then had the Weagles, then added Freo. So things have changed incrementally. By what logic should it now stop & stay the same?

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

I think you are jumping at shadows. But lets look at the 'entire picture' if you like.Your old VFL clubs were a factional split from the VFA. All happy to go off & look after themselves at that time.
The VFL clubs all went into the AFL, if stuffed WAFL.SANFL & Tassie footy. No tears for them. I also note the AFL tore the VFA apart & called it the VFL. They aligned some AFL clubs reserves when running the twos was too expensive. I see now the AFL clubs want to split again & run their own reserves. That will kill a lot more 100 year old VFA clubs. No concern their I see.
The clubs you call battlers & dignified are just as greedy, ruthless & destructive as the clubs you call arrogant. Its about time you realised the the AFL is arrogant & people like you only care about what you want. No care & interest in the health of Australian rules as a whole. You are only interested in what your club can suck out of the rest of the country.

You have clearly lost the plot.

Fortunately for Collingwood, Eddie knows only too well the political importance of the smaller Melbourne clubs, hence Collingwoods support for them.

He wants us in the competition, he just doesn't want us to have a fair chance of beating Collingwood.

 

[Kwality]

I took umbridge at the term mindless.
I understand passion but to ignore the plain demographic & economic facts of too many Victorian suburban clubs & not enough in WA is so plainly self evident to me.
Wa has gone from having its own dominant league, then had the Weagles, then added Freo. So things have changed incrementally. By what logic should it now stop & stay the same?

I'm unashamedly against more clubs, against more dilution.

Move a Vic basket case to WA is something I'd not oppose BUT the AFL need to fund it not the WAFC. A basket case in Vic or in WA funded by the AFL is not a big deal.

I'd feel its dudding Tas footy, BUT .... 2 x Melb clubs are already feeding off the Tas taxpayers.

 

[madmug]

You have clearly lost the plot.

Fortunately for Collingwood, Eddie knows only too well the political importance of the smaller Melbourne clubs, hence Collingwoods support for them.

He wants us in the competition, he just doesn't want us to have a fair chance of beating Collingwood.

I'll let others decide who has the 'plot', lost or otherwise. I do know you have a very narrow & one sided, rose coloured view of the footy world. Its all about the VFL & the stuff everyone else attitude that you have.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

I'm unashamedly against more clubs, against more dilution.

Of course you would be. You don't want anyone interfering with your grossly under-serviced, economically skewed, million consumer market.

You have had financial dominance handed to you on a platter. You didn't even earn it. The market was sitting there ready and waiting, and you had 8 years head start on any and all competition.

Ironically, you now seem to think you have the understanding to pass judgement on others that have been infinitely less fortunate than you based purely on financial grounds.

This is George W Bush Republican Party era economic audacity.

Well, guess what, the AFL support 10 clubs in Melbourne and that's all there is to it. Looking forward to see how you lot go if/when you are placed under the same pressures. My guess is that you will fold up under pressure.

 

[madmug]

I'm unashamedly against more clubs, against more dilution.

Move a Vic basket case to WA is something I'd not oppose BUT the AFL need to fund it not the WAFC. A basket case in Vic or in WA funded by the AFL is not a big deal.

I'd feel its dudding Tas footy, BUT .... 2 x Melb clubs are already feeding off the Tas taxpayers.

Again I agree that we Dont want more than an 18 team competition. But it is plainly unbalanced with too many Victorian suburban teams & one short in WA IMO. Yes I want a tassie team too. But it should be a stand alone club not a has been hand me down from Victoria.
I would like to piss off the current leaches that FIFO for money that we already have coming here. They dont want to move here & they do SFA for local footy, they are just carpetbaggers. Pathetic & selfish.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

I'll let others decide who has the 'plot', lost or otherwise. I do know you have a very narrow & one sided, rose coloured view of the footy world. Its all about the VFL & the stuff everyone else attitude that you have.

On the contrary, I am very balanced.

I acknowledge that the starting point in any of these discussion is the fact that the AFL is a not for profit football competition. A fairly important fact that you & kwality fail to grasp.

Keep spouting your absurd perverted Keynesian dialogue. The AFL certainly doesn't take any notice of it.

 

[Kwality]

Not big on economic theory Hard'n.

How does Keynes compare with your approach more at home in the House of Lords, protected from the todays realities because of a quirk of history centuries back - some call it elitism.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Not big on economic theory Hard'n.

How does Keynes compare with your approach more at home in the House of Lords, protected from the todays realities because of a quirk of history centuries back - some call it elitism.

House of Lords?

North and Footscray?

Are you tripping?