Autopsy Depth

[living_in_syd]

I know there is a 'delisting' and 'players to trade for' thread but I saw nothing on a depth thread. So lets have discussion of the state of our depth and who/what we need to recruit for 2012.

I think it is well established by us and opposition supporters that we have good high end of talent. So you would think the hard part is over, all we need to develop and recruit depth players for roles, backups and injuries. Personally, I think its not a bad position to be in. Rather than some other teams, who have heaps of depth and players around the same mark, but with little to no elite game changers or good top end.

Other than the 2012 draft and trades (players from other clubs and free agency) which will be accessed independently, lets keep a discussion and list here of players that performing in VFL, WAFL, SANFL, Country etc.

Personally, I think it would possible to pick up a serviceable back up midfielder somewhere, lively forward (eg Saad), 3rd key defender, or 2nd ruck. For example, I think maybe we should be looking at a player in crap side maybe, usually what happens eg if they look crap due to them being the No.1 defender in crap side, but if they moved in a good team with good support and made the 2nd/3rd tall they improve dramatically. Vice versa, a forward in a crap side, never gets much feed from the midfield, all of sudden put in a good side, feed triples and he makes a very serviceable 2nd/3rd small/tall forward. Aim for players around the 20-23 mark, they are physically developed and nearing their peak and could fit their role immediately.

Discuss.

 

[CoggaRules]

as i suggested in another thread, FJ and the gang should be having a good look at Central Districts in the SANFL. There are some pretty slick movers playing in that team and with a bit of beef to boot.

 

[tigs2010]

as i suggested in another thread, FJ and the gang should be having a good look at Central Districts in the SANFL. There are some pretty slick movers playing in that team and with a bit of beef to boot.

Paul Marschall?

 

[CoggaRules]

Paul Marschall?

dont know many names, had to have the teev on low not to wake anyone up. There is a dude named Haygen or something like that and there is this other party trickster Lawton who can clunk a mark, but isnt built like he can and a few others too who have slick skills by foot and by hand.

Just looked up the clubs website the dude we should look at is Luke Habel.

Edit, the laugh is that this Lawton kid was recruited from....wait for it....Coburg..anyone have any goss on how he went there?

 

[fleabitten]

dont know many names, had to have the teev on low not to wake anyone up. There is a dude named Haygen or something like that and there is this other party trickster Lawton who can clunk a mark, but isnt built like he can and a few others too who have slick skills by foot and by hand.

Just looked up the clubs website the dude we should look at is Luke Habel.

Edit, the laugh is that this Lawton kid was recruited from....wait for it....Coburg..anyone have any goss on how he went there?

There were a lot of us saying the Tiges should at least rookie him. When I saw he was no longer with Coburg, I at first thought another club must have taken him in the draft, but nope. Looked a likely type from what I saw of him.

 

[CoggaRules]

There were a lot of us saying the Tiges should at least rookie him. When I saw he was no longer with Coburg, I at first thought another club must have taken him in the draft, but nope. Looked a likely type from what I saw of him.

well he can clunk marks that he has no right to take. The downside is that his kicking might be a little off in terms of accuracy but he has real good awareness on what to do and when to do it, if it needs to be done, if you know what i mean. 197 cm 90kg good size, but looks light out on the field, but still gets involved.

 

[tigs2010]

dont know many names, had to have the teev on low not to wake anyone up. There is a dude named Haygen or something like that and there is this other party trickster Lawton who can clunk a mark, but isnt built like he can and a few others too who have slick skills by foot and by hand.

Just looked up the clubs website the dude we should look at is Luke Habel.

Edit, the laugh is that this Lawton kid was recruited from....wait for it....Coburg..anyone have any goss on how he went there?

Ahh yer Lawton the ex-Coburg player. Forgot about him. From memory wasn't a great kick and still doesn't seem to have put on size.

Marschall is a 187cm/80kg HBF with fantastic skills. Looking at him I think he'd be heavier than that. He's only about 19/20 years old too.

How'd our mate Richie go seems that delisted players become unrestricted free agents?

 

[Wacky Tiger]

as i suggested in another thread, FJ and the gang should be having a good look at Central Districts in the SANFL. There are some pretty slick movers playing in that team and with a bit of beef to boot.

Absolutely. Some pretty handy footballers in all of the SANFL which prob should be given a gig or a look in atleast

 

[CoggaRules]

Ahh yer Lawton the ex-Coburg player. Forgot about him. From memory wasn't a great kick and still doesn't seem to have put on size.

Marschall is a 187cm/80kg HBF with fantastic skills. Looking at him I think he'd be heavier than that. He's only about 19/20 years old too.

How'd our mate Richie go seems that delisted players become unrestricted free agents?

LMAO...ahhh Blinga. Believe it or not, after clocking in to watch it, within a minute he gets it, breaks through the middle and spears a lace out pass to an opposition player. After that, he did pretty good, but as i suggested earlier, he is well used to the line "wasnt the worst", but then the other line goes hand in hand "they lost by 12 goals or something", but in reality Sturt were woeful and he was one that wasnt.
He must be on the Crows list yes? He was wearing no 58, which is usually a signal for an AFL listed player playing in the 2s.

 

[tigs2010]

LMAO...ahhh Blinga. Believe it or not, after clocking in to watch it, within a minute he gets it, breaks through the middle and spears a lace out pass to an opposition player. After that, he did pretty good, but as i suggested earlier, he is well used to the line "wasnt the worst", but then the other line goes hand in hand "they lost by 12 goals or something", but in reality Sturt were woeful and he was one that wasnt.
He must be on the Crows list yes? He was wearing no 58, which is usually a signal for an AFL listed player playing in the 2s.

Yer still Crows listed but IF he gets delisted this year he's unrestricted Free Agent. Funny stuff.

 

[tigs2010]

With this rule that you can pick up delisted players before the draft I'd be hanging out to see what GC delist. Guys that could be in trouble according to a GC supporter are:
Taylor Hine - 182cm/80kg tough midfielder from Calder.
Hayden Jolly - 183cm/85kg skilful inside midfielder from Glenelg (Tiger at heart?)
Lewis Moss - 195cm/88kg athletic KPP from Port Douglas.
Piers Flanagan - 189cm/84kg athletic and skilful utility from Geelong Falcons.

Then you add Free Agent listed players like: Troy Chaplin, Jed Adcock, Chris Knights (though watching him this year he looks done.)

Trade for a Greg Broughton.

Couple of mature aged rookies from state leagues and all of a sudden we have players pushing for senior selection.

Any others who may be delisted who could be of interest?

 

[theflea]

With this rule that you can pick up delisted players before the draft I'd be hanging out to see what GC delist. Guys that could be in trouble according to a GC supporter are:
Taylor Hine - 182cm/80kg tough midfielder from Calder.
Hayden Jolly - 183cm/85kg skilful inside midfielder from Glenelg (Tiger at heart?)
Lewis Moss - 195cm/88kg athletic KPP from Port Douglas.
Piers Flanagan - 189cm/84kg athletic and skilful utility from Geelong Falcons.

Then you add Free Agent listed players like: Troy Chaplin, Jed Adcock, Chris Knights (though watching him this year he looks done.)

Trade for a Greg Broughton.

Couple of mature aged rookies from state leagues and all of a sudden we have players pushing for senior selection.

Any others who may be delisted who could be of interest?

what rule? trade?

 

[Madtiger2006]

Assuming Miller, Connors, Macdonald, Webberley, Graham are gone and Moore retires we'll have a healthy senior list after the draft period. Best 22 might look like:

FB houli rance morris
HB grimes griffiths ellis
C conca cotchin edwards
HF newman elton king
FF vickery reiwoldt nahas
FOLL maric marin deledio
INT foley jackson grigg tuck

Depth:
tall backs-astbury, post, draft(if Moore retires)
tall forwards-derrickx, mcguane, draft
small backs-batchelor, dea, draft
small forwards-o'hanlon, maric, draft
midfielders-arnott, helbig, white, draft
first ruck-browne, draft

Ideally we should have 3 depth players for each area. We have several back up 2nd ruckman though

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Assuming Miller, Connors, Macdonald, Webberley, Graham are gone and Moore retires we'll have a healthy senior list after the draft period. Best 22 might look like:

FB houli rance morris
HB grimes griffiths ellis
C conca cotchin edwards
HF newman elton king
FF vickery reiwoldt nahas
FOLL maric marin deledio
INT foley jackson grigg tuck

Depth:
tall backs-astbury, post, draft(if Moore retires)
tall forwards-derrickx, mcguane, draft
small backs-batchelor, dea, draft
small forwards-o'hanlon, maric, draft
midfielders-arnott, helbig, white, draft
first ruck-browne, draft

Ideally we should have 3 depth players for each area. We have several back up 2nd ruckman though

Our issue with our depth is that we have to many in the red catergory and not enough in the blue.
Red being players who aren't able to play forward,back, inside mid and outside mid.
Blue being those who can.
Outside of Ruckmen(3), KPF ( 5 )or KPB ( 5) , the remainder of the list should be made up of players who can play forward/ back/ outside mid / inside mid.
Conca, Ellis are heading in the right direction, whoever untill we get at least half our list capable of playing the various roles at some stage during the year we arfe going to struggle for depth, within one of these rolesd.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Our depth is poor. But we also have a heap of kids coming through. And we will be recruiting again for 20-23 year olds. Looking at what we have done we are starting to build depth. But it all takes time.

I personally think that the attitude 'we have poor depth, let's look for an immediate fix of guys from the state leagues!' is wrong. We need to stick with the process and build 2-3 players a year until we have the team. We are close, but not there. If we get lucky and get 5 guys great, but that is unlikely. Part of the bad thing about our current situation is that we are playing guys not really up to it. Part of the good thing is that these are the guys that need AFL exposure to work out whether to perservere (Diericx) and to learn what is required - Helbig (and maybe Dusty is still learning that). It is sticking to the process that leads to on field results - eventually. If the Gods love us.
Or we can do Carlton and try and buy success - anyone know a sugar daddy?

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Your constant overoptimistic rating of the players I guess could be seen as admirable (or delusional) MT.

Or maybe you have a different definition of 'depth'.

I consider depth to be a player who can slot into the best 22 and play the role given. This of course assumes we are ideally a top 8 side. Therefore, to list Arnott, Derrickx, is delusional, and Post, Helbig, McGuane and even White would be stretching the definition. So, no, we don't have much depth, and last weekend proved it!

 

[CoggaRules]

Our depth is poor. But we also have a heap of kids coming through. And we will be recruiting again for 20-23 year olds. Looking at what we have done we are starting to build depth. But it all takes time.

I personally think that the attitude 'we have poor depth, let's look for an immediate fix of guys from the state leagues!' is wrong. We need to stick with the process and build 2-3 players a year until we have the team. We are close, but not there. If we get lucky and get 5 guys great, but that is unlikely. Part of the bad thing about our current situation is that we are playing guys not really up to it. Part of the good thing is that these are the guys that need AFL exposure to work out whether to perservere (Diericx) and to learn what is required - Helbig (and maybe Dusty is still learning that). It is sticking to the process that leads to on field results - eventually. If the Gods love us.
Or we can do Carlton and try and buy success - anyone know a sugar daddy?

We are close but not there? How many changes were missing from the top 22 last week? We were close yes, close to beating the last team on the ****ing ladder. Thats how close we were.

You seem to forget that free agency affords all teams the opportunity to acquire ready made players if they fit the bill without compromising the rebuild with young draftees. If we dont maximize this opportunity we will be left at the post again and this close shit, is just that, shit, we are lightyears from having the required depth to handle a long hard season, that nowadays takes its toll on the list injury wise.

 

[Parquet Court]

I've always held this view, well for that last 2-3 seasons now.

The picks that are pick 50+ should not be wasted on some rangey kid, we just have to look at the afl now, duigan, broughton, curnow to name a few. While they may not be great players, they are great for depth players, that second tier of player who can play a role and lay it well.

I have a similar opinion on ruck man, unless they are a prodigious type of player like kruzer or nic nat then players who have proven themselves at state level in the ruck should be picked rather than project players, ala cordy, Browne, graham. Just such a massive punt to take

 

[Harmichael]

Continue to rebuild with youth or bring in good ready made players? Don't see why we can't do both with smart list management and the right recruiting.


IIRC, the previously mentioned Lawton was routinely named in the bests for Burgers and was invited to train with us a couple of years running.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Our depth is poor. But we also have a heap of kids coming through. And we will be recruiting again for 20-23 year olds. Looking at what we have done we are starting to build depth. But it all takes time.

I personally think that the attitude 'we have poor depth, let's look for an immediate fix of guys from the state leagues!' is wrong. We need to stick with the process and build 2-3 players a year until we have the team. We are close, but not there. If we get lucky and get 5 guys great, but that is unlikely. Part of the bad thing about our current situation is that we are playing guys not really up to it. Part of the good thing is that these are the guys that need AFL exposure to work out whether to perservere (Diericx) and to learn what is required - Helbig (and maybe Dusty is still learning that). It is sticking to the process that leads to on field results - eventually. If the Gods love us.
Or we can do Carlton and try and buy success - anyone know a sugar daddy?

If we continue to only find 2-3 players a year our youngest players will be 28 minimum before we get 20-30 players , which doesn't cut the mustard I'm afraid . Within a complete rebuild we need to find closer to 6 per year to capatilise on early picks like lids, Cotchin Martin whilst they are still within their prime . Personally I don't think we have over the past 3 years which has me extremely concerned that although our top 22 will be more than capable our list depth will not be good enough for us to continually play finals and deep into final series . We are only 2 years off starting to lose some players who are in our top echelon . Newman , Tuck , Foley . Whilst it's feasible to suggest players like king , jackson and even lids may start to slide a little .
So apart from needing to improve our depth immediately, we also have to cover impending starting 22 players . I wouldn't be against the club cutting deep this year , 7 plus minimum . 3 picks within the ND and the remaining on the best 20-23 midfielder -forwards currently in the country , not playing AFL or from upon other clubs lists who aren't happy . Solely for depth and in the hope one or two may step up to replace a foley , Newman , tuck .
We don't need to chase big name players, via free trade , we have the superstars , we need the workhorses .
When delisting and the like IMO the whole focus should be about depth , which although not first liners , players with some experience like McGuanne , Post, White and Graham , should be kept .
McGuanne in fact has already taken over millers role and much to my surprise has done it well .

 

[living_in_syd]

I personally think that the attitude 'we have poor depth, let's look for an immediate fix of guys from the state leagues!' is wrong. We need to stick with the process and build 2-3 players a year until we have the team.

I think we have been building depth by drafting a lot of 18year olds - but as everybody knows, 2-3 years go by and they go out the door and we start again.

Its a fine balance between getting young guys from the draft and recruiting from the leagues. And we can do both and not stock ourselves with list cloggers and project players (which should have went to the VFL). Drafting from VFL/Free agents does not affect our early draft picks. And we arent wasting our pick which we normally do past the 50s.

We had success with Morris right? Yep, overlooked at draft I think but spent his time developing in the league and argubly made him mentally strong and hungrier.

Does any have a list of current players in the AFL who were recruited in from leagues? Pods, Barlow, ??

 

[nick1408]

as i suggested in another thread, FJ and the gang should be having a good look at Central Districts in the SANFL. There are some pretty slick movers playing in that team and with a bit of beef to boot.

The first thing I thought of when I saw this was "Ben Nason" but I do see where you are coming from. Target the elite state sides (multiple premiers like Centrals, Port Melbourne etc.), scout them well and see why the are winning then pinch those players.

 

[juss]

Small forward is one area I would look at in the state leagues. Scour the WAFL, SANFL, VFL for the best small forward between 20-23 and recruit them as a ready made player.

Another ready to go key defender would be handy as well (but they must be able to kick).
Grimes goes down again this year and just like last year that's when our defence starts to struggle a bit. One of our most important players is Grimes, but at the moment he's a bit injury prone so a 192-195cm KPD 90kg+ would be another area I'd look at.

 

[Parquet Court]

Ian Richardson, Greg broughton, nick lower, koby Stevens are players playing in the WAFL or for the afl sides that would be fantastic mature picks or trades.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Small forward is one area I would look at in the state leagues. Scour the WAFL, SANFL, VFL for the best small forward between 20-23 and recruit them as a ready made player.

Another ready to go key defender would be handy as well (but they must be able to kick).
Grimes goes down again this year and just like last year that's when our defence starts to struggle a bit. One of our most important players is Grimes, but at the moment he's a bit injury prone so a 192-195cm KPD 90kg+ would be another area I'd look at.

Small forward is a unnecessary commidity , which rarely perform when wanted/needed, big games , and which solely take the place of a midfielder. The least amount of small midfielders we have upon our list the better .