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Pt Augusta Power said:
You and I clearly see eduction in a different light.

I don’t see that there should be any incentive for the ‘lender’ other than to support someone to get a good education regardless of their social/economic background - without the fear of crippling further debt.

No $51k is not reasonable in the current economic climate - rent, bills, petrol.

You shouldn’t have to be born to wealthy parent in order to gain an education and then hold an ongoing snowball of debt. And there are so many other ways to save $ to support this other than going for the ndis. Maybe try franking credits or submarines.
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In a "perfect" world, sure, the lender just gives money away freely expecting nothing in return. We don't live in a perfect world though.

I disagree with your assertion that a HECS debt is "crippling further debt." The average outstanding debt back in late 2021 was $23,685. If you have studied a degree at university by which you can leverage into a career that will pay that mean debt many times over, that debt is hardly going to be "crippling" regardless of your socioeconomic background. Please explain why you believe you need to be "born to wealthy parents in order to gain an education" - the majority of my close friends certainly weren't born into wealthy families, 1 even bloody lived in a caravan park as a teenager but they all managed to go to uni, get a tertiary education and make something for themselves - and they've done this with a HECS debt.

If 51k isn't reasonable, what is a reasonable monetary value to begin repayments? You then face the adage of someone not paying for many years, indexation sees the debt go up and up and then by the time they're in a position financially to make a repayment, the debt has increased significantly creating only a further problem.

edgie said:
Perhaps there should be a Uni levy for the wealthier like medicare.
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Good luck convincing the electorate who's currently playing their HECS debt to not only continue paying their own debt off but to also pay a levy to fund other people's tertiary education.
 

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edgie said:
Perhaps there should be a Uni levy for the wealthier like medicare.
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You reckon your doing well tradie/mining mates would be happy with that?

The usual limpdick "everything should be free" Blame the Boomers for everything staying on type in this thread. FMD. I had a HECS debt by the way. It got paid, you just pay a bit more tax (something which the limpdicks generally advocate). It made vitually zero difference to my life.
 
Papa G said:
You reckon your doing well tradie/mining mates would be happy with that?

The usual limpdick "everything should be free" Blame the Boomers for everything staying on type in this thread. FMD. I had a HECS debt by the way. It got paid, you just pay a bit more tax (something which the limpdicks generally advocate). It made vitually zero difference to my life.
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What I said was tongue in cheek, but the following isn't.

I couldn't care less what the 'doing well' are happy with.
 
Pt Augusta Power said:
Of course you mean NDIS is being rorted primarily by the businesses right?
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My folks were quoted $1300 and $900 via their package for a job they got a local handyman to do for $350. Have also been invoiced for services that were never provided.
 
Papa G said:
The usual limpdick "everything should be free" Blame the Boomers for everything staying on type in this thread.
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Cool story and all, except that the Boomers did get it for free. The usual "young people today shouldn't get the same advantages I had when I was young, * them got mine" crowd sticking to the ideology in this thread as well.
 
sobrave said:
papa running with the back in my day trope. does this guy ever come up with anything original?

things were affordable on a little bookkeeper salary 30 years ago when you went to uni m8.

in the same position now, you'd be ****ed.
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Why get so aggressive about it.

I was in the first group of HECS paying students and it took roughly until I was 30 to pay it off. I had 2 years of being unemployed in the early 90s due to the recession.

Mrs B went through 11 years after I did, and it took her a little longer to pay it off, the bulk of it by 37ish, with a 6 year period of not working due to having 3 kids.

Two of our three kids are planning on attending Uni and we will be glad that the HECS system is in place because neither of us come from money or earning big bucks.

For the record, to give you a sense of mine and Mrs B's family background, we were the first, and in my case only, ones in our family to go onto tertiary education. This would not have been possible without HECS & AUSTUDY.

When you talk about 'free tertiary education' it was technically free, but only those who had the means to live through a 4-5 year degree course could access the small number of enrolments available. My dad for example, wanted to continue in school and go to uni but due to the family being unable to support him through that time, he had to leave school after year 10 and get a job. That's how it was.

We now have a system where Kindergarten, Primary, and Secondary education up to yr 12 are all provided free* with good support for tertiary education and trade apprenticeships for those that want to access it.

Don't conflate the shitful system in the US with what we have here. No one is going to the wall over a HECS debt in Australia.



*technically there's fees for govt schools however they're reasonably small and manageable for most families, and there are options for those that can't manage.
 
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bomberclifford said:
Why get so aggressive about it.

I was in the first group of HECS paying students and it took roughly until I was 30 to pay it off. I had 2 years of being unemployed in the early 90s due to the recession.

Mrs B went through 11 years after I did, and it took her a little longer to pay it off, the bulk of it by 37ish, with a 6 year period of not working due to having 3 kids.

Two of our three kids are planning on attending Uni and we will be glad that the HECS system is in place because neither of us come from money or earning big bucks.

For the record, to give you a sense of mine and Mrs B's family background, we were the first, and in my case only, ones in our family to go onto tertiary education. This would not have been possible without HECS & AUSTUDY.

When you talk about 'free tertiary education' it was technically free, but only those who had the means to live through a 4-5 year degree course could access the small number of enrolments available. My dad for example, wanted to continue in school and go to uni but due to the family being unable to support him through that time, he had to leave school after year 10 and get a job. That's how it was.

We now have a system where Kindergarten, Primary, and Secondary education are all provided free* with good support for tertiary education and trade apprenticeships for those that want to access it.

Don't conflate the shitful system in the US with what we have here. No one is going to the wall over a HECS debt in Australia.



*technically there's fees for govt schools however they're reasonably small and manageable for most families, and there are options for those that can't manage.
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Ahhh but is your tertiary education one of those "essentially pointless and wasteful university degrees out there?"
 
Chewy316 said:
In a "perfect" world, sure, the lender just gives money away freely expecting nothing in return. We don't live in a perfect world though.

I disagree with your assertion that a HECS debt is "crippling further debt." The average outstanding debt back in late 2021 was $23,685. If you have studied a degree at university by which you can leverage into a career that will pay that mean debt many times over, that debt is hardly going to be "crippling" regardless of your socioeconomic background. Please explain why you believe you need to be "born to wealthy parents in order to gain an education" - the majority of my close friends certainly weren't born into wealthy families, 1 even bloody lived in a caravan park as a teenager but they all managed to go to uni, get a tertiary education and make something for themselves - and they've done this with a HECS debt.

If 51k isn't reasonable, what is a reasonable monetary value to begin repayments? You then face the adage of someone not paying for many years, indexation sees the debt go up and up and then by the time they're in a position financially to make a repayment, the debt has increased significantly creating only a further problem.



Good luck convincing the electorate who's currently playing their HECS debt to not only continue paying their own debt off but to also pay a levy to fund other people's tertiary education.
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Wow - you disagreed (what a shock) AND even threw in a bit of ‘back in my day’ and ‘I’ve got mates who’ - and the good old Pauline ‘please explain’ haha.
 

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Pt Augusta Power said:
Wow - you disagreed (what a shock) AND even threw in a bit of ‘back in my day’ and ‘I’ve got mates who’ - and the good old Pauline ‘please explain’ haha.
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Only trying to have a rational discussion, didn't know I wasn't allowed to use anecdotes. Of course, you've chosen to bypass all of the questions I posed to you. If you wish to continue, please answer the questions I posed above, otherwise, good day to you.

bomberclifford said:
Why get so aggressive about it.

Don't conflate the shitful system in the US with what we have here. No one is going to the wall over a HECS debt in Australia.
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If people are losing their minds over a "crippling" HECS debt I'd hate to think how they actually feel about a significant debt like a mortgage on a house.

Contested Marx said:
Ahhh but is your tertiary education one of those "essentially pointless and wasteful university degrees out there?"
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Contested Marx said:
Better get that confirmed with Chewey lol
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You've completely missed the point I made regarding universities producing degrees which for the individual are largely a waste of time relative to the cost of obtaining them. The only winner is the university in this instance. For context, I look at my wife's first degree she completed in medical science. A 3 year undergraduate program which at the time of graduation (2013) had entry level jobs of approximately $19 an hour with the career path maxing out at a maximum of $30 an hour. She could have saved herself the HECS debt and made just as much stacking shelves at Coles or Woolies. It was a pointless 3 year exercise that culminated in having to revise career paths in order to live the life she wanted to live.

People should have the right to study whatever is available to them, just not at the expense of the taxpayer (ie for free) at the tertiary level.
 
Chewy316 said:
Only trying to have a rational discussion, didn't know I wasn't allowed to use anecdotes. Of course, you've chosen to bypass all of the questions I posed to you. If you wish to continue, please answer the questions I posed above, otherwise, good day to you.



If people are losing their minds over a "crippling" HECS debt I'd hate to think how they actually feel about a significant debt like a mortgage on a house.





You've completely missed the point I made regarding universities producing degrees which for the individual are largely a waste of time relative to the cost of obtaining them. The only winner is the university in this instance. For context, I look at my wife's first degree she completed in medical science. A 3 year undergraduate program which at the time of graduation (2013) had entry level jobs of approximately $19 an hour with the career path maxing out at a maximum of $30 an hour. She could have saved herself the HECS debt and made just as much stacking shelves at Coles or Woolies. It was a pointless 3 year exercise that culminated in having to revise career paths in order to live the life she wanted to live.

People should have the right to study whatever is available to them, just not at the expense of the taxpayer (ie for free) at the tertiary level.
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I answered your questions - you disagreed and asked more bloody questions 🤣 - We could spend the next few posts swapping anecdotes and disagreeing with each other but Nah can’t be ****ed tbh

Nobody is getting study for free you know (just you’ve mentioned a few times now).
 
Pt Augusta Power said:
I answered your questions - you disagreed and asked more bloody questions 🤣 - We could spend the next few posts swapping anecdotes and disagreeing with each other but Nah can’t be ****ed tbh

Nobody is getting study for free you know (just you’ve mentioned a few times now).
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I'm well aware tertiary education is not free - but there is a select group in this forum (not referring to yourself) who believe it should be free. That is why I have mentioned it.
 
Rex Patrick flaying the submarine deal again.
How dare he suggest $360bill is lunatic use of taxpayer money.
Bits if anti-acoustic coating flapping off, interminable periods in maintenance and so on.
It's like dealing with Ken at a used car dealership.

michaelwest.com.au

AUKUS Fissile or Fizzer? Rex Patrick on the trouble with Virginia Class second hand submarines - Michael West

Former submariner Rex Patrick looks under the hood of the second-hand Virginia-class nuclear submarines. Even AUKUS fans might not like it
michaelwest.com.au michaelwest.com.au
 
Schulzenfest said:
Not sure why you seem to think that people struggling with their mortgages is a funny topic to troll people over?
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Whilst Lowe has done an average job at best, he was right in that Government has largely vacated trying to fix inflation and he's got one blunt instrument to use. The government forcing everyone to kick in more to super (temporarily) would be able to get more money out of the economy and spread the pain to a greater portion of the population (hence less individually). The bonus of that's money you'll eventually get back (with growth over the years), instead of lining banks vaults.

Or if you're going to hit mortgages, slap a levy on investment loan payments or even primary residence, split so the first $500,000 is at the usual interest rate and a levy on everything over, to try and stop house prices inflating again, without hurting those at lower incomes with houses as much. The government is getting off too easily saying 'This is bad', but then doing too little about it.
 



After a short pause, residential housing prices are continuing their record breaking march upwards across Australia, reinforcing the wealth effect for those with small mortgages or who own their homes outright. Those in this situation will easily ride out the ongoing rise in interest rates and inflation.

Meanwhile, the latest interest rate jump, with the RBA saying there are more to come, will put extraordinary pressure on those with recently acquired and large mortgages, those desperately hoping to get into a house, those who are renting and those who are homeless. Hit with the double whammy of spiralling energy and food prices.

The current cycle of interest rises is creating the greatest gap between the haves and have nots in Australian society that I can recall. Coming after the pandemic I really do fear about the impact it will have on social cohesion for future generations.

The result of decades of failed policy settings in the housing market - successive governments actively encouraging the ever expanding housing price bubble with houses no longer seen as homes and part of the vital social capital of a city or a community but as risk free investment options.

Makes me sick.
 
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