Opinion Domestic Politics BF style

[power09]

Albo has completely misread the room. The referendum was not a issue that alot of the general public cared about that much.
What's more important, putting food on the table and keeping the lights on, or voting yes/no on a subject that doesn't affect the majority of the population.

Economic issues will always be more important than social issues

Personally I think both parties were more than happy to let this stupid proposal suck up most of the political narrative for a term where almost all Australian's quality of life is heading south but nobody seems to be to blame.

 

[power09]

 

[philthy05]

A few random thoughts ...

The idea of democracy doesn't assume a fully informed electorate nor does it assume there is no incorrect information for the electorate to work through.

Albo has to take the blame for this. The proof is in the pudding, he didn't sell this properly. Forget misinformation, the Prime Minister has the loudest megaphone in the country and his message was unable to cut through. He focused on the feel good factor and made minimal effort to explain why this particular solution would help first nations people rather than 'well, everything else hasn't worked'.

There should have been more focus on the actual people that this was trying to help rather than the people who were proposing it. How many interviews, images or stories did you see from remote communities? How many did the average Australian see? Don't just assume everyone is aware of the third world conditions in these communities. Put it in their faces and show them. All I saw was politicians and celebrities - both first nations and non-first nations - talking about how much this thing was needed. That didn't cut through.

I’m not going I argue that any of the messaging was great or even good but I’m going to challenge on some of these claims

Do you have any experience with anyone that works in marketing or any kind of messaging / media?


how exactly are you presenting these “interviews images or stories from remote communities”

Through what medium? How long is this content? How does it tie together into any kind of cohesive message? Where are the public viewing these messages and when the average time spent on media is seconds before moving on how are you ensuring they engage with what you’re proposing they show them?

Also, let’s assume you can do this, how would showing these things in anyone counter

If you don’t know vote no.

The person that is appealing to isn’t swayed by a compelling 30sec piece from an indigenous community about how much they need a voice or how it helps them.

and how would showing indigenous stories help people who see the claims that indigenous people don’t want the voice.

Whoever bought that isn’t going to be swayed by seeing content from an indigenous person saying they need it. Chances are they did see that, and they wanted to believe what they wanted to believe.

The no vote worked so well because it’s not reliant on evidence, its plays into what a section of people wanted to believe.

You cannot present a counter argument against “if you don’t know vote no” because it’s not an argument with any basis. It’s a cop out. There’s not a single headline / retort you, I or the smartest group of people in the world can write that works for the people who bought that.

For instance let’s use some of the obvious no voters in this thread.

What messaging do you propose would have worked with them? Do you think it’s possible any messaging would have worked with them?

This was entirely the issue with the Yes campaign.

Your issue with the yes campaign is that they didn’t tell people what solutions an advisory board made up of stakeholders would present?

Can you not see the absurdity of that statement?


Can you tell me what a body of people who are not you, who are there because they have lived experience that you cannot relate to are going to put forward after careful consideration?

Cause if you can we don’t need the advisory board at all, we can get your all-knowing ass into action.

I voted no since I believe in equality for all instead of preferential treatment by race.

1. There is not equality for all and the fact you say so shows how far you have your head in the sand

2. How is an advisory body that reports to a bunch of mainly old white dudes preferential treatment to indigenous Australians?

One piece of information put around by the Yes camp was that 80% of indigenous people supported the Voice. That has to be an exaggeration as the Northern Territory, which has the largest percentage of indigenous people, voted No by over 20%. In SA the biggest margin for the No vote was in the seat of Grey which includes the remote settlements in the APY Lands.

Another point made in last night's telecast was the similarity in voting patterns between this referendum and the Australian Republic referendum held in 1999. Back then the republican camp could not decide how they were going to get a Head of State once the Monarchy was gone. They knew they wanted a Republic but were divided on how it was going to work. This time around Albanese showed he learned nothing from 1999 and like Malcolm Turnbull before him did nothing to explain how the thing was going to work. Basically people want to know what they are voting for and in both cases how the proposal would work was as clear as mud.

Albanese failed to get a bipartisan approach and he failed to explain the workings of the Voice and as a consequence the referendum failed.

Probably cause the indigenous people in those areas you’re talking about are still greatly outnumbered by non-indigenous

The places you are least likely to have dealings with Indigenous people were the most likely to vote Yes. But, but darling I have a lovely piece of Aboriginal Art in our Foyer.

What’s your argument here?

That if the inner city folk had more dealings with disaffected indigenous people they would discriminate against them as much as you do?

The government should help people in need. You don't need an exclusive race based advisory body to do that. It is sad that you have lost your religion.

Wouldn’t a good place to start helping be to set up an advisory body made up of the people you’re trying to help?

Lol

There’s literally 1000’s of advisory boards. Never a national panic about a pork advisory board.

Imagine the divide that’s created.

Obviously it didn't work. It was a proposal to divide Australians and it failed.

How exactly would it “divide” people.

Give us real world examples.

How exactly would you have been divided by a yes vote? how would you have been negatively impacted?

 

[edgie]

...
False narrative of deaths in custody ?? - wow.

The likelihood of an Aboriginal person in custody dying more than a non Aboriginal person dying in custody is incredibly minor, like 1.1%.

What happens is those stats are applied to greater populations, rather than the already in custody, which makes it look worse, obviously. It paints the prison system as incredibly racist, when really, the statistical rates don't support it, and in a way disservices the issue. The issue is shifted from why are Aboriginal people being incarcerated are huge rates, to why are incarcerated Aboriginal people being murdered in goal, when, they, really, aren't.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[sobrave]

Have you looked?

She favours law and order
Alcohol restrictions
Restrictions on welfare spending
Addressing aboriginal on aboriginal violence
Not buying in to the false narrative of deaths in custody

LAW AND ORDER!

 

[raptalia]

Interesting the inner city votes were yes - i’m stereotyping but thinking mostly elspeth types.


Which then from that account - I wonder if those in remote and regional areas really did make a ‘racist’ vote?

The stereotype is that most of the CBD dwellers tend to be SNAGs rather than CHOPs like me. I would have thought that the well healed conservative suburbs like North Adelaide, Medindie, King's Park and Walkerville would have been No. Then again I would have thought electorates like Gray, with a high Aboriginal population, would have been closer to a yes vote.

 

[sobrave]

The stereotype is that most of the CBD dwellers tend to be SNAGs rather than CHOPs like me. I would have thought that the well healed conservative suburbs like North Adelaide, Medindie, King's Park and Walkerville would have been No. Then again I would have thought electorates like Gray, with a high Aboriginal population, would have been closer to a yes vote.

Wtf is a snag and a chop

 

[TazD]

The shaman would've voted Yes

 

[Festerz]

Then again I would have thought electorates like Gray, with a high Aboriginal population, would have been closer to a yes vote.

APY Lands within the Grey electorate has an 89% indigenous population and (as per my previous post from AEC tally nos) those eligible to vote overwhelmingly voted YES - but the point is that the 2,064 Indigenous people who live there represent a very small % of the 160K people who live within the seat of Grey.

Also important to understand that the Indigenous population has an average age substantially lower than that of other population groups - especially in SA - with a relatively large % below the voting age compared to other groups.

 

[Pt Augusta Power]

The stereotype is that most of the CBD dwellers tend to be SNAGs rather than CHOPs like me. I would have thought that the well healed conservative suburbs like North Adelaide, Medindie, King's Park and Walkerville would have been No. Then again I would have thought electorates like Gray, with a high Aboriginal population, would have been closer to a yes vote.

Don’t underestimate a regional communities fear that the no campaign generated. The idea that any scrap from the table would lead to widespread harm to their ‘way of life’. I’m not surprised by Grey’s results one bit - have lived in a number of towns in that electorate and maybe I could count the number of people I know would have voted yes on one hand and still have a finger and thumb to spare.

The fact the predominantly ATSI communities overwhelmingly voted yes is the most upsetting part (not surprising but incredibly sad).

 

[Festerz]

The fact the predominantly ATSI communities overwhelmingly voted yes is the most upsetting part (not surprising but incredibly sad).

As someone else said so eloquently in another thread...

Black Australia asked for and voted for a Voice, white Australia told them to get f***ed. It's that simple.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Obviously it didn't work. It was a proposal to divide Australians and it failed.

What’s is your answer then, to make positive change, to help them make positive change?
Or are you happy for things to continue as is, throwing money in ways that doesn’t work?
Or are you happy for us to stop supporting them, save money for those you believe are more deserving, more like yourself perhaps?

 

[OneGreatClub]

As someone else said so eloquently in another thread...

Black Australia asked for and voted for a Voice, white Australia told them to get f***ed. It's that simple.

Pauly V sounds devastated.

 

[Harlott]

APY Lands within the Grey electorate has an 89% indigenous population and (as per my previous post from AEC tally nos) those eligible to vote overwhelmingly voted YES - but the point is that the 2,064 Indigenous people who live there represent a very small % of the 160K people who live within the seat of Grey.

Also important to understand that the Indigenous population has an average age substantially lower than that of other population groups - especially in SA - with a relatively large % below the voting age compared to other groups.

You have to keep repeating yourself numerous times for people to understand this and when it finally sinks in, they’ll pull a Jacinta Price and and start throwing out that the counting process was corrupted because “I spoke to my mob and they all were voting no”.

 

[Festerz]

Not surprisingly One Nation upper house MP in the SA Parliament Sarah Game has this morning vowed to introduce a Bill into state parliament to repeal the SA Voice legislation that was passed by both Houses of Parliament in March this year.

Also unsurprisingly SA Liberal leader David Speirs has said he will support the One Nation repeal motion given the overwhelming NO Referendum result.

The irony here is that Federal Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has openly said he would support a legislated Indigenous Voice to Parliament - which is precisely what the SA Voice is.

 

[Festerz]

Pauly V sounds devastated.
(account does not exist)

As we all know Pauly has done a lot for the Indigenous communities in SA and remote NT as well as playing a pivotal role in supporting our Indigenous players and their families. He is now doing that role with the AFL.

Pauly deleted his twitter/X account today. Anyone who saw his posts expressing sadness at the Referendum result (and some of the responses) would understand why.

N.B. Edited for accuracy.

 

[TeeKray]

As someone else said so eloquently in another thread...

Black Australia asked for and voted for a Voice, white Australia told them to get f***ed. It's that simple.

We need to stop with the Captain Cook v first nations people narrative. Australia in 2023 is an ethnically diverse country and it's a bit offensive to imply that anyone who isn't first nations is passing-white.

And as has been pointed out, anecdotal evidence suggests that ethnically diverse Australians that could neither be classed white or black were more likely to vote no than just about anyone.

 

[TeeKray]

As we all know Pauly has done a lot for the Indigenous communities in SA and remote NT as well as playing a pivotal role in supporting our Indigenous players and their families. He is now doing that role with the AFL.

Pauly deleted his twitter/X account today. Anyone who saw some of the toxic responses to his posts expressing sadness at the Referendum result would understand why.

Unfortunately social media gives every idiot a megaphone and the more of an idiot you are the more likely you are to use it.

 

[Festerz]

Unfortunately social media gives every idiot a megaphone and the more of an idiot you are the more likely you are to use it.

Yep that is true in general.

But note that I've modified my specific post to remove the word 'toxic' because on reflection that is way OTT.

The responses to his posts I saw (and I did not see them all) were not toxic or filled with hatred at all so I overshot there. It was more that some were (struggling for the right word) ...unsympathetic..to Pauly's perspective. And in any case, I would imagine the reason for the deletion was his devastation at the referendum process and result in general.

 

[Festerz]

No doubt the likes of Hanson, Newman and other racists would feel emboldened by the referendum result.

But it's my view that this interpretation would be dead wrong. They are still ignorant outliers from the vast majority of the Australians' views on Indigenous matters and the desire to recognise Indigenous heritage and improve Indigenous health and socio-economic outcomes.

It's just that, for the vast majority of non-Indigenous voters and for many reasons, the overwhelming consensus was that the proposed Constitutional amendment was not something they were willing to support.

 

[bomberclifford]

As we all know Pauly has done a lot for the Indigenous communities in SA and remote NT as well as playing a pivotal role in supporting our Indigenous players and their families. He is now doing that role with the AFL.

Pauly deleted his twitter/X account today. Anyone who saw his posts expressing sadness at the Referendum result (and some of the responses) would understand why.

N.B. Edited for accuracy.

Not just Twitter. Look like he's gone from all social media.

 

[Festerz]

Not just Twitter. Look like he's gone from all social media.

For someone who has shouldered the struggles of so many Indigenous people, and not just in the AFL, I can only imagine how musth of a blow this whole Referendum process has been- culminating in an overwhelming majority of South Australians voting NO.

His last post on twitter was an emotional one - of someone who felt his life work on promoting recognition and reflection has been torn down and personally let down by those around him.

Taking time off social media while the dust settles makes good sense to me.

 

[StrappingTape]

Not surprisingly One Nation upper house MP in the SA Parliament Sarah Game has this morning vowed to introduce a Bill into state parliament to repeal the SA Voice legislation that was passed by both Houses of Parliament in March this year.

Also unsurprisingly SA Liberal leader David Speirs has said he will support the One Nation repeal motion given the overwhelming NO Referendum result.

The irony here is that Federal Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has openly said he would support a legislated Indigenous Voice to Parliament - which is precisely what the SA Voice is.

So it should be rescinded, he also did it straight up ignoring Aboriginal protests that they didn't want it whilst telling them they did lol.

 

[DaTBird187]

60% of Australians are dickheads and dinasours according to Ray Martin. Disinformation

I'd say he's being conservative.

 

[sobrave]

We need to stop with the Captain Cook v first nations people narrative. Australia in 2023 is an ethnically diverse country and it's a bit offensive to imply that anyone who isn't first nations is passing-white.

And as has been pointed out, anecdotal evidence suggests that ethnically diverse Australians that could neither be classed white or black were more likely to vote no than just about anyone.

Ah yes, the incredibly ethnically diverse regional areas where the vote was overwhelmingly No.