Domestic violence

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Tell that to the people working in the crisis centres. What's your experience in this field?

As have cancer rates. Let's just stop cancer research.

As have car accident rates. Let's just stop improving car safety.

I've worked in community mental health services as a clinician and in leadership for 18 years.

People in crisis centers may be saying that (although, i prefer to ask myself not believe what the media portrays), but if it is it isn't because there is "AN EPIDEMIC" because less women are killed by their intimate partner now than ever before. If you watch MSM you could be fooled from thinking every woman is on the precipice of being murdered by their husband....its just a gross confabulation.
If there is a problem, it's with the service provision and funding from governments...why? because its been politicized and when that happens we never see the actual services funded, we see splashes of cash to win votes, but never any strategy to repair the system.

Please find my quote where I said we should stop trying to improve the system??

My point is...we aren't operating on facts, we are operating on feelings because that's what the media and our elected politicians predate on within us. I find the whole thing galling...because as if its not enough to exploit this subject politically, but then to take advantage of women by using false emotive narratives in a vacuum of facts to paint women as all helpless, scared and frightened, and to prey on their perceived vulnerabilities, is actually the antithesis of the empowerment of women.

 

[Chief]

If you watch MSM you could be fooled from thinking every woman is on the precipice of being murdered by their husband

No you couldn't.

If there is a problem, it's with the service provision and funding from governments...why? because its been politicized and when that happens we never see the actual services funded, we see splashes of cash to win votes, but never any strategy to repair the system.

I agree there.

Please find my quote where I said we should stop trying to improve the system??

My point is...we aren't operating on facts, we are operating on feelings because that's what the media and our elected politicians predate on within us. I find the whole thing galling...because as if its not enough to exploit this subject politically, but then to take advantage of women by using false emotive narratives in a vacuum of facts to

What false emotive narratives? That there aren't enough deaths in your view to treat it as an emergency ?

paint women as all helpless, scared and frightened, and to prey on their perceived vulnerabilities, is actually the antithesis of the empowerment of women.

Who is doing that?

 

[paulige]

But it does affect me - a statement that all men need to reduce their violence against women implies that all men are violent. I'm considered violent purely because of something inherent to me that I can't change.

If someone was to say that all black men need to reduce their violence against women, I'm sure you'd agree the wording is inappropriate and racist. Though I'm sure CM86 didn't intend it, their wording comes across to me as prejudiced against men.

I simply can't get behind any message that infers all men are violent, and I'm not just being a stickler for irrelevant detail - you'll likely find there are many others who feel the same way. If the messaging turns potential allies off, how is it going to be effective?

No idea if you resolved this in the next 4 pages, but you’re definitely not alone on this one.

“All men need to reduce their violence” misses the mark twice for mine. The first being the targeting at all men, and the second being that it isn’t explicit enough about what we actually want to achieve. We aren’t aiming to reduce violence. We are aiming to end it.

I wouldn’t take the statement personally in the slightest, I know it’s not about me at all, but, as you explained, I know there are many well-intentioned people who would. And it would create resistance in them, rather than unity.

Something along the lines of “all men need to take positive action toward ending DV” would reach many more.

“The world suffers a lot. Not because the violence of bad people. But because of the silence of the good people.”

 

[Chief]

“All men need to reduce their violence”

I don't think that's been the message.

"All men need to help" is the message I've seen. "Men need to do better" - as a group we do, even if individuals are doing their best.

 

[the_interloper]

I don't think that's been the message.

"All men need to help" is the message I've seen. "Men need to do better" - as a group we do, even if individuals are doing their best.

I feel this in itself is not a helpful message, people need to be specific as to how men need to be better. Particularly since the vast majority of blokes don't hit their missus, raise their kids not to do this and will express disgust if a friend/colleague talked about doing it.

I mean you say as a group we need to do better, well I don't know about you but there's maybe a handful of blokes that I know that I could have influence over in my life, and even then it's not absolute. I'm really not sure what more I could do individually outside of what I've said in the first paragraph.

 

[Chief]

I feel this in itself is not a helpful message, people need to be specific as to how men need to be better.

Ask women you know. Listen to the answer.

If that doesn't help then I dunno. Ask ChatGPT. It knows everything.

 

[Chief]

There you go the_interloper

Told you ChatGPT knows everything! This is from the latest 4o:


"What should my online friend do to help reduce violence against women in Australia?"



Reducing violence against women in Australia is a complex issue that requires a multifaceted approach. Here are several actions your friend can take to contribute to this important cause:

### Education and Awareness
1. Learn About the Issue: Understand the root causes of violence against women, including gender inequality, societal norms, and power imbalances.
2. Raise Awareness: Share information and resources about violence against women on social media, within communities, and among friends and family.
3. Challenge Misogyny: Speak out against sexist jokes, comments, and behaviors, and educate others on why these attitudes are harmful.

### Support and Advocacy
4. Support Victims: Offer emotional support to victims of violence and encourage them to seek professional help. Be a good listener and provide a safe space for them to share their experiences.
5. Volunteer: Get involved with organizations that work to prevent violence against women and support survivors. Volunteering can include activities such as fundraising, providing administrative support, or direct service to victims.
6. Donate: Contribute financially to organizations that are actively working to reduce violence against women.

### Community Engagement
7. Participate in Campaigns: Join or organize local and national campaigns aimed at ending violence against women. This can include participating in events like marches, vigils, and awareness days.
8. Engage Men and Boys: Encourage men and boys to become allies in the fight against violence against women. Programs that engage men in discussions about masculinity, consent, and healthy relationships are crucial.

### Policy and Legal Action
9. Advocate for Change: Support policies and legislation that protect women and hold perpetrators accountable. This can include writing to local representatives, signing petitions, and participating in advocacy groups.
10. Promote Gender Equality: Work towards gender equality in all areas of life, including the workplace, education, and home. Gender equality is a key factor in reducing violence against women.

### Personal Responsibility
11. Reflect on Personal Behavior: Examine and change any personal behaviors or attitudes that may contribute to a culture of violence or discrimination.
12. Promote Healthy Relationships: Model and promote relationships based on respect, equality, and consent.

### Support Systems
13. Create Safe Spaces: Encourage and help create environments where women feel safe and supported, whether in the workplace, social settings, or community spaces.
14. Educate Children: Teach children about consent, respect, and healthy relationships from a young age to help foster a culture that does not tolerate violence.

By taking these steps, your friend can play an active role in helping to reduce violence against women in Australia. Every effort counts, and collective action can lead to significant change.

 

[HairyO]

I don't think that's been the message.

"All men need to help" is the message I've seen. "Men need to do better" - as a group we do, even if individuals are doing their best.

How do I help?

I dont know anyone who is violent towards their partner, or their kids.

Or neighbours, randos at the pub, etc.

 

[Chief]

How do I help?

I dont know anyone who is violent towards their partner, or their kids.

Or neighbours, randos at the pub, etc.

There's a list right here:

Domestic violence

Tell that to the people working in the crisis centres. What's your experience in this field? As have cancer rates. Let's just stop cancer research. As have car accident rates. Let's just stop improving car safety. I've worked in community mental health services as a clinician and in...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[HairyO]

There's a list right here:

Domestic violence

Tell that to the people working in the crisis centres. What's your experience in this field? As have cancer rates. Let's just stop cancer research. As have car accident rates. Let's just stop improving car safety. I've worked in community mental health services as a clinician and in...

www.bigfooty.com

Should women be doing any of those things as well? Or just men?

If we dont are we bad people? Cos I love all sorts of jokes and comedians who tell all sorts of jokes.

Is Jimmy Carr to blame for the apparent epidemic and Im an enabler?

Or can we agree some of that list is dumb and simply has nothing to do with the actual problems which is where our focus needs to be?

I also think a guy who gets drunk and beats his wife doesnt give 2 shits about coloured backgrounds on Facebook.

Hand wringing and patting yourself on the back for being involved literally never solves anything. Look to those who walked across the bridge for Sorry Day. Things are worse now than they were then, but boy oh boy those politicians were proud of themselves that day.

 

[Chief]

Should women be doing any of those things as well? Or just men?

What do you think?

If we dont are we bad people? Cos I love all sorts of jokes and comedians who tell all sorts of jokes.

DO you feel bad?

Is Jimmy Carr to blame for the apparent epidemic and Im an enabler?

Tell us about Jimmy Carr's issues. I've not heard anything.

Or can we agree some of that list is dumb and simply has nothing to do with the actual problems which is where our focus needs to be?

It's just an example list from ChatGPT. Look up the sources. You can follow what you like. You can do what you can. Or not.

I also think a guy who gets drunk and beats his wife doesnt give 2 shits about coloured backgrounds on Facebook.

Of course. But you being vocal about support service funding, voting for people who support and do provide that funding, donating to those services, and calling out the guys who do this - if you can, if it's safe - would help wouldn't it?

Hand wringing and patting yourself on the back for being involved literally never solves anything.

Then don't do those things. Do the things you are able to, and that you believe work.

If you are already doing those things, doing what you can, then the message is not aimed at you. But we can probably all do a bit more, or do a bit better. Just a bit. I know I can.

If you're doing nothing but you are able to, then the message is aimed at you. Get started. After a while, hearing about it won't raise this anxiety, it will be second nature. Automatic.

Look to those who walked across the bridge for Sorry Day. Things are worse now than they were then, but boy oh boy those politicians were proud of themselves that day.

Sorry Day isn't supposed to solve everything. No one thing will solve everything. Issues arising from colonisation are complicated. Call out people who's words don't match their actions.

 

[peetoo]

There you go the_interloper

Told you ChatGPT knows everything! This is from the latest 4o:


"What should my online friend do to help reduce violence against women in Australia?"



Reducing violence against women in Australia is a complex issue that requires a multifaceted approach. Here are several actions your friend can take to contribute to this important cause:

### Education and Awareness
1. Learn About the Issue: Understand the root causes of violence against women, including gender inequality, societal norms, and power imbalances.
2. Raise Awareness: Share information and resources about violence against women on social media, within communities, and among friends and family.
3. Challenge Misogyny: Speak out against sexist jokes, comments, and behaviors, and educate others on why these attitudes are harmful.

### Support and Advocacy
4. Support Victims: Offer emotional support to victims of violence and encourage them to seek professional help. Be a good listener and provide a safe space for them to share their experiences.
5. Volunteer: Get involved with organizations that work to prevent violence against women and support survivors. Volunteering can include activities such as fundraising, providing administrative support, or direct service to victims.
6. Donate: Contribute financially to organizations that are actively working to reduce violence against women.

### Community Engagement
7. Participate in Campaigns: Join or organize local and national campaigns aimed at ending violence against women. This can include participating in events like marches, vigils, and awareness days.
8. Engage Men and Boys: Encourage men and boys to become allies in the fight against violence against women. Programs that engage men in discussions about masculinity, consent, and healthy relationships are crucial.

### Policy and Legal Action
9. Advocate for Change: Support policies and legislation that protect women and hold perpetrators accountable. This can include writing to local representatives, signing petitions, and participating in advocacy groups.
10. Promote Gender Equality: Work towards gender equality in all areas of life, including the workplace, education, and home. Gender equality is a key factor in reducing violence against women.

### Personal Responsibility
11. Reflect on Personal Behavior: Examine and change any personal behaviors or attitudes that may contribute to a culture of violence or discrimination.
12. Promote Healthy Relationships: Model and promote relationships based on respect, equality, and consent.

### Support Systems
13. Create Safe Spaces: Encourage and help create environments where women feel safe and supported, whether in the workplace, social settings, or community spaces.
14. Educate Children: Teach children about consent, respect, and healthy relationships from a young age to help foster a culture that does not tolerate violence.

By taking these steps, your friend can play an active role in helping to reduce violence against women in Australia. Every effort counts, and collective action can lead to significant change.

The conversation about consent is an ideal place to modify attitudes about male-female relationships.on both sides. Which will also improve these issues

I suspect the majority of younger generations are already doing better, but there are pockets of reactive behaviour. The manosphere thread covers this

 

[HairyO]

What do you think?

DO you feel bad?


Tell us about Jimmy Carr's issues. I've not heard anything.



It's just an example list from ChatGPT. Look up the sources. You can follow what you like. You can do what you can. Or not.



Of course. But you being vocal about support service funding, voting for people who support and do provide that funding, donating to those services, and calling out the guys who do this - if you can, if it's safe - would help wouldn't it?



Then don't do those things. Do the things you are able to, and that you believe work.

If you are already doing those things, doing what you can, then the message is not aimed at you. But we can probably all do a bit more, or do a bit better. Just a bit. I know I can.

If you're doing nothing but you are able to, then the message is aimed at you. Get started. After a while, hearing about it won't raise this anxiety, it will be second nature. Automatic.




Sorry Day isn't supposed to solve everything. No one thing will solve everything. Issues arising from colonisation are complicated. Call out people who's words don't match their actions.

Except we have gone backwards, not even a little forwards. Politicians love crap like this because they get to talk a lot and dont actually have to do anything. The media love it too because it makes for good TV.

As to whether I feel bad, no more or less than other tragic things which happen in life which are not anything to do with me.

For Jimmy Carr, I find it hard to believe you dont know about his style of humour, but he has no issue making jokes about literally anything, which time to time gets internet people frothing. No topic is off-topic.

 

[Chief]

Except we have gone backwards, not even a little forwards. Politicians love crap like this because they get to talk a lot and dont actually have to do anything. The media love it too because it makes for good TV.

Which area are you talking about? DV or aboriginal issues?

As to whether I feel bad, no more or less than other tragic things which happen in life which are not anything to do with me.

Which things? You think no issues with DV and gendered violence have anything to do with you? I suppose if you sit inside doing nothing all day then it doesn't.

For Jimmy Carr, I find it hard to believe you dont know about his style of humour, but he has no issue making jokes about literally anything, which time to time gets internet people frothing. No topic is off-topic.

Yes but what has he got to do with personal action on domestic violence etc in Australia?

Does he glorify DV? Diminish its effects? Deny its existence? I haven't seen him do that. Do you have examples?

 

[HairyO]

Which area are you talking about? DV or aboriginal issues?



Which things? You think no issues with DV and gendered violence have anything to do with you? I suppose if you sit inside doing nothing all day then it doesn't.


Yes but what has he got to do with personal action on domestic violence etc in Australia?

Does he glorify DV? Diminish its effects? Deny its existence? I haven't seen him do that. Do you have examples?

Aboriginal issues.

DV rates I believe are far lower now than they have been historically, which makes this current campaign interesting.

As to which things, literally anything. There are millions of tragedies to worry about and some people want to worry about all of them. Maybe that's what makes them feel whole. But generally if Im not involved and I cant do anything I dont tend to waste a lot of time on it.

I have do have plenty of things I do worry about and tend to focus on those.

To Jimmy Carr, he has plenty. Bill Burr has a famous bit on why you cant ever hit a woman, but that doesnt mean you dont ever have a reason to hit a woman. Deconstructs how simple and stupid broad claims can be.

 

[peetoo]

Is fantasising violence actually violence?

 

[Chief]

To Jimmy Carr, he has plenty.

I've not seen anything that glorifies or excuses or trivialises domestic violence.

 

[Chief]

why you cant ever hit a woman, but that doesnt mean you dont ever have a reason to hit a woman

I'll play this off a straight bat.

It's a bit that has aged badly. It's a joke about semantics really. It's pretty mid.

"Reason" is earning overtime here.

"Feeling like you want to" is maybe what he means. The difference is where the laughs are. The knowledge that wanting to hit someone over a small irritation is a weakness. We all have our weaknesses. Don't make me feel bad about mine. Don't preach to me. I can't handle it.

 

[Gethelred]

It's a bit funny to me how, in the Rogan thread, people insist that he's just meant to be entertaining and you shouldn't go to him to be informed; that his show isn't harmful to anyone because it's entertainment, pure and simple. But over here, we're meant to absorb a deeper meaning from Bill Burr JAQing off ironically for at least six minutes of that, as though his deconstruction wasn't entertainment in format and should be treated as truth?

 

[HairyO]

I'll play this off a straight bat.

It's a bit that has aged badly. It's a joke about semantics really. It's pretty mid.

"Reason" is earning overtime here.

"Feeling like you want to" is maybe what he means. The difference is where the laughs are. The knowledge that wanting to hit someone over a small irritation is a weakness. We all have our weaknesses. Don't make me feel bad about mine. Don't preach to me. I can't handle it.

Or that sometimes the other party causes it and deserves it... but you still cant.

 

[Chief]

Or that sometimes the other party causes it and deserves it... but you still cant.

Can you give me an example that doesn't involve defence of self or others?

 

[HairyO]

Can you give me an example that doesn't involve defence of self or others?

His example of the girlfriend 3 times hitting him in the head knocking off his headphones. Clearly knew it wasnt violent but an act in response would be frowned upon, I assume?

 

[Chief]

His example of the girlfriend 3 times hitting him in the head knocking off his headphones. Clearly knew it wasnt violent but an act in response would be frowned upon, I assume?

Proportional response as defence of self if it was actually violent? I didn't watch it all.

"An act" in response? Depends.

Otherwise have the argument with your girlfriend but... "deserve" to be hit? Can't see it from your description.

It's a comedy act.

Here's a better one to listen to:

Should we treat domestic violence like we treat terrorism? - ABC listen

Australia's first domestic violence shelter Elsie opened in the 1970s, and researchers have been analysing the problem ever since. In the last three decades more than 1,500 women have been killed by intimate partners in Australia and we're still no closer to finding out why. Campaigner Rosie...

www.abc.net.au

 

[peetoo]

I'll play this off a straight bat.

It's a bit that has aged badly. It's a joke about semantics really. It's pretty mid.

"Reason" is earning overtime here.

"Feeling like you want to" is maybe what he means. The difference is where the laughs are. The knowledge that wanting to hit someone over a small irritation is a weakness. We all have our weaknesses. Don't make me feel bad about mine. Don't preach to me. I can't handle it.

Cant speak for anyone else but in family ‘situations’ my base desire is to get time out from it. So perhaps my issue is not dealing with it. Not great, but not violent.
I’m male btw

 

[peetoo]

His example of the girlfriend 3 times hitting him in the head knocking off his headphones. Clearly knew it wasnt violent but an act in response would be frowned upon, I assume?

He refers to it, but his MO is to make the audience squirm in the name of comedy. OK in small doses I reckon