Dumb Footy

[folester41]

we might have won tonight, but it was far from convincing, and for much of the game we were very sloppy.

some really basic mistakes cost us, and some really stupid footy.

if we are ever going to be a top 8 side we have to make sure we only draft players who can not only hit a target, but also have a footy brain, for too long we have had too many players who are poor decision makers.

hospital handballs, not kicking it to the advantage of our player and complicating things that should be simple are holding us back and costing us goals, if we had played someone half decent tonight we would have lost.

in future drafts, we must target players with footy brains, the way we drafted last season was perfect, batchelor and conca are the types of footballers we need to take us forward and fingers crossed we can get it right in the next few drafts because if we don't, we will continue to be behind the pack.

 

[Infamy]

Pretty sure we started drafting this type of player a few years ago

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Actually, haven't seen Conca's name mentioned in other threads tonight. First half was so good, disposal and decision making were fantastic. Tired in the second half I'd say, so made a couple of minor errors.

But do agree somewhat with the OP, were some hair-pulling passages tonight, by several players. We need to be 50% fitter than our opposition just because we have to work so hard to counter our errors.

 

[folester41]

Pretty sure we started drafting this type of player a few years ago

disagree, cotchin is a smart footballer but he was an obvious selection, as was martin, apart from those two, the majority of other players we have drafted havent been your smart types in my opinion.

 

[Haggard H]

Beautiful sunny autumn day today, but don't be fooled! Those rays will kill you, and leaves can fall into your eye, and you don't know whether it's alright to put on the heater or not ... etc.

Yes, we didn't play like a premiership threatening team tonight, because we're not a premiership threatening team. A bunch of youngsters getting a job done and improving every week.

I actually thought as I was walking through the carpark at the G after the game that there was lots of positives and almost as many negatives, but that in a way the negatives are positives.

- Conca will get fitter.
- Cotchin will get fitter.
- Martin will get stronger (that's gonna be scary).
- Graham won't have to do the bulk of the ruck work.
- Grimes will actually get the experience up to know it's alright to mark sometimes.
- Vickery will learn how to use his size in contests.
- etc.

We're not a finals team at the moment, but we are no longer wooden spoon favourites. That's a start, and you need a start if you're going to move.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

disagree, cotchin is a smart footballer but he was an obvious selection, as was martin, apart from those two, the majority of other players we have drafted havent been your smart types in my opinion.

I would consider these guys smart footballers:

Jack
Conca
Vickery
Batchelor

Certainly wouldn't call any of King, Houli or Grigg dumb.

 

[folester41]

I would consider these guys smart footballers:

Jack
Conca
Vickery
Batchelor

Certainly wouldn't call either of Houli or Grigg dumb.

well he said a few years ago, but i would call grigg a dumb footballer, and houli did alot of stupid things in the first half, before making up for it in the second half.

mcguane and graham are the most stupid, rance is far from smart but i have hope for him.

the players id call smart footballers would be:

deledio
cotchin
newman
conca
batchelor
jack
martin
vickery
grimes

some others performed well and can be decent players but i wouldnt say they have a real footy brain.

 

[carn tigez]

I'd actually say Jake King is one of our smartest players this year, and that is genuine. Deledio for me is probably the smartest in the team.

 

[Azzleberry]

we might have won tonight, but it was far from convincing, and for much of the game we were very sloppy.

some really basic mistakes cost us, and some really stupid footy.

if we are ever going to be a top 8 side we have to make sure we only draft players who can not only hit a target, but also have a footy brain, for too long we have had too many players who are poor decision makers.

hospital handballs, not kicking it to the advantage of our player and complicating things that should be simple are holding us back and costing us goals, if we had played someone half decent tonight we would have lost.

in future drafts, we must target players with footy brains, the way we drafted last season was perfect, batchelor and conca are the types of footballers we need to take us forward and fingers crossed we can get it right in the next few drafts because if we don't, we will continue to be behind the pack.

TOTALLY AGREE! Was going to start a thread with the same title myself! Great minds eh...

Firstly, on Conca, this is why I think we valued him higher than Heppell/Prestia/Caddy. When he gets the ball, I feel as safe as if Martin, Deledio, Newman or Cotch have it. 90% of the time he chooses the correct option and executes well. He is happy to hold onto the pill until he finds a target and doesn't panic like others (MCGUANE). Composure and time are two things you see in elite players and Conca is showing he has both.

Now; Dumb Football....
At times tonight all 22 were guilty of this.
Why do players like Foley, Cotchin, Newman, Deledio (not so much martin) get the ball running towards the F50 and then hand pass to players like Grigg, Edwards et al to kick into our F50. We try so hard to get our elite disposers the ball and they give it to the so-so users of the ball. IMO it is a issue of responsibility. 8-10 times tonight Foley was guilty of over-possessing, hand balling to a teammate under more pressure and running into trouble. Needs to be smarter especially considering he is a senior player and yes, I understand that this may be due to lack of match time/speed in the last 1-2 years.

 

[carn tigez]

Foley is an average kick of the ball, don't mind him giving it off. Agree on the others though, particularly Lids I think in the North game or maybe Saints, had something like 1 kick 9 handballs in the first quarter, then after that kicked far more often. Something Hardwick had obviously told him to do.

That's a big difference in the Hardwick Richmond, I see things like that and have faith it will be fixed, whereas in the dark Wallace era I would expect Lids to have finished with 3 kicks and 44 handballs.

 

[Bazzar]

Lol...

 

[folester41]

TOTALLY AGREE! Was going to start a thread with the same title myself! Great minds eh...



Now; Dumb Football....
At times tonight all 22 were guilty of this.
Why do players like Foley, Cotchin, Newman, Deledio (not so much martin) get the ball running towards the F50 and then hand pass to players like Grigg, Edwards et al to kick into our F50. We try so hard to get our elite disposers the ball and they give it to the so-so users of the ball. IMO it is a issue of responsibility. 8-10 times tonight Foley was guilty of over-possessing, hand balling to a teammate under more pressure and running into trouble. Needs to be smarter especially considering he is a senior player and yes, I understand that this may be due to lack of match time/speed in the last 1-2 years.

agreed, almost every one is guilty, however id say cotchin along with martin are usually pretty spot on.

foley on the other hand, i mentioned it in another thread, he might have racked it up but geez he cost us big time with many of his disposals, his kicking has never been good, and the only time id want him kicking it is to a man in space, or on jacks head, because when it comes to hitting a target he is no good, and when we are a top 8 side people will realise this.

one situation in the first half really pissed me off, he had the ball approaching our 50, and elected to dish it off to nason, not only did nason have two players about to crunch him, but foley had a player in front that was in a much better position. it might be a small mistake, but it is vital and im pretty sure they scored a goal from the resulting turnover.

 

[MightyTiger]

Lol...

I fully endorse this post.

 

[peternorth]

one thing that has always baffled me re: bouncing the ball. why do players sometimes feel the need to take a few steps (ie less than 10m) and bounce the ball.

one stage tonight cotchin was running along the boundary line, i think lids was nearby. cotch stops and bounces the ball and then hballs to lids who wasnt expecting it. ball went out of bounds.

everyone makes mistakes, hopefully we will cut down on unforced ones.

 

[Infamy]

well he said a few years ago, but i would call grigg a dumb footballer, and houli did alot of stupid things in the first half, before making up for it in the second half.

mcguane and graham are the most stupid, rance is far from smart but i have hope for him.

the players id call smart footballers would be:

deledio
cotchin
newman
conca
batchelor
jack
martin
vickery
grimes

some others performed well and can be decent players but i wouldnt say they have a real footy brain.

We certainly focussed on smart footballers with our early picks for the past 3-4 years, even more so in the last 2 years. It's far too soon to make the call on many players, just have a look how well Rance is playing this year.

 

[Bazzar]

one thing that has always baffled me re: bouncing the ball. why do players sometimes feel the need to take a few steps (ie less than 10m) and bounce the ball.

A habit as kids. When we run/jog the first thing we do after 3 steps is to bounce the ball. Do it from 6 to 18yo its what we do. Go watch the seniors train and those with balls run onto the ground and they are constantly bouncing.

Im with you on this, and i wish somehow our coaching staff would drill it into them to get the pill, run a flat out 10mt then bounce. Foley and Lids are the worst. It must take up so much energy and ultimately slow them down.

 

[nut]

Desicion making improves with experience. Rance is improving at a good rate.

 

[nut]

A habit as kids. When we run/jog the first thing we do after 3 steps is to bounce the ball. Do it from 6 to 18yo its what we do. Go watch the seniors train and those with balls run onto the ground and they are constantly bouncing.

Im with you on this, and i wish somehow our coaching staff would drill it into them to get the pill, run a flat out 10mt then bounce. Foley and Lids are the worst. It must take up so much energy and ultimately slow them down.

Disagree. Its all about giving your self rythem before you kick. Getting the bounce away early can help at times. Especially a player like lids who can load up and kick 70 meters. It can also help with balance.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

one thing that has always baffled me re: bouncing the ball. why do players sometimes feel the need to take a few steps (ie less than 10m) and bounce the ball.

Disagree. Its all about giving your self rythem before you kick. Getting the bounce away early can help at times. Especially a player like lids who can load up and kick 70 meters. It can also help with balance.

Yeah, actually I am dumbfounded how many commentators bring this up over the years.

Players bounce the ball early so they know they then have a full 15m to run where they can have their eyes up looking for options, etc. Rather then run 10-12m, then bounce and have to dispose when an opponent is bearing down on them.

 

[maceman]

Have a look at us. We have another win on the board; two now and a draw. This is a vast improvment on this time last year and we are bagging the team: "bunch of dumb footballers" etc etc...

Sure, discuss negatives but seriously, are we happy, (as tiger supporters), when we win or is it because we have been rubbish for so long, it's become the norm to bitch and moan, even when we get the four points! (And I have been guilty of this in the past).

We won the first, second and final quarters. We're not a top eight side and we are bloody young! Sure, during the journey we will delist blokes that are not up to it but I feel pretty positive about the list's development.

Enjoy each win. They (the wins), get us closer to where we want to be.

 

[Tigerland]

I think what you're referring to is AWARENESS.

Knowing not to give the handball to a player about to be tackled by 2 players.
Knowing that if they don't hit the target with the pinpoint 50m pass then the opposition have 3 players waiting to take it away.
Knowing not to waltz out of the backline with a small forward chasing you from behind.

Knowing that your temamate will shepperd you (hardly)

Some players have awareness, some will learn it and some will always struggle.

One way of improving this and becoming smarter footballers is by using their VOICES.
Warn your temmate that they have time, they're hot etc.

Hard to tell from the lounge room but we seem to be not so vocal on the field at times.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Desicion making improves with experience. Rance is improving at a good rate.

Totally agree nut. Rance was hopeless in years gone by.

We're getting so much better at not playing dumb football. It's be a huge turn around from 2 or 3 years ago, in my opinion. We may still make mistakes, but no where near as bad or as often as before. And, we're playing with a younger group with less on the bench.

 

[folester41]

rance is getting better, as everyone is, however it doesnt mean they are going to be smart players, they can be good players without being smart players, but only when surrounded by players with a footy brain.

we won and i enjoyed it however until we are at collingwoods level, im always going to pick out things that we need to improve on, and for me this is a massive thing.

 

[SA TIGER]

we might have won tonight, but it was far from convincing, and for much of the game we were very sloppy.

some really basic mistakes cost us, and some really stupid footy.

if we are ever going to be a top 8 side we have to make sure we only draft players who can not only hit a target, but also have a footy brain, for too long we have had too many players who are poor decision makers.

hospital handballs, not kicking it to the advantage of our player and complicating things that should be simple are holding us back and costing us goals, if we had played someone half decent tonight we would have lost.

in future drafts, we must target players with footy brains, the way we drafted last season was perfect, batchelor and conca are the types of footballers we need to take us forward and fingers crossed we can get it right in the next few drafts because if we don't, we will continue to be behind the pack.

This is what to expect from a young side. IMO, it was a good overall performance with room for improvement!

To think if we kicked accurately, the margin could've been 50+. Hardly dumb football, as you called it!!!

 

[nut]

rance is getting better, as everyone is, however it doesnt mean they are going to be smart players, they can be good players without being smart players, but only when surrounded by players with a footy brain.

we won and i enjoyed it however until we are at collingwoods level, im always going to pick out things that we need to improve on, and for me this is a massive thing.

There are creative players (smart player), there are instinctive players, then there are players that need a role to execute...

Collingwood dont have a team full of Smart, Instinctive players.... they have a team full of players that are well drilled on they way MM wants them to play and as a group they are predicable to each other... The Collingwood players have the skill level and experience to execute their game plan.

The clever, smart, instinctive players can be shut down... a great game plan cant.

Our player are still learning the "way we play" and "our game plan" and are developing the skills necessary to execute it.

We have enough players with the creative edge on each line on the ground....