Eade getting it wrong?

[Pembleton]

Rocket has talked a lot about the culture of survival at the club, and how that needs to change, i am sure we all agree with that. Overall i am quite happy with his performance as coach, but i believe he has and continues to make one major error, that being the creation and fostering of a culture of accepting a lower level of performance than this team is capable of, because this is ONLY a development year.

My problem is with his own stated position of so called "re-building" this year. From the ask rocket section of the website: "As part of the development year, I’m prepared to lose some goals for these players to be able to learn to beat their men one on one. Next year it will become a focus area and it might be a cost of our attack, we mightn’t kick as many goals but we certainly will improve our defensive area. Certainly in our thoughts, we will look to seek improvements next year."

Next year we will focus on our defensive area? We will seek improvements next year?

Why not this year? This team is good enough to be playing finals football in '05, and i think Eade has erred in his attitude of looking ahead instead of to the present. It goes a long way to explaining us letting go of games in situations where we should not have, because the attitude is that this year is only practise, it is not do or die when we need to tough out a win, because the real stuff starts next year.cr

 

[Borgsta]

as usual Pembleton I have to agree with what you say. I dont see the point in waiting til next year. Id rather have a sound defensive game first and then concentrate on the attacking aspect.

 

[Bulldog1954]

I disagree that this side is good enough to be playing finals in 05. This side won 8 games in two years, admittedly under a poor coach. We are a level below the sides in the 8 (barring maybe Richmond). Without a key forward and without Darcy we are not in the nest 8 sides in the league. Next year with a fit Darcy and hopefully a new KPP we may be

 

[Derek Zoolander]

I disagree that this side is good enough to be playing finals in 05. This side won 8 games in two years, admittedly under a poor coach. We are a level below the sides in the 8 (barring maybe Richmond). Without a key forward and without Darcy we are not in the nest 8 sides in the league. Next year with a fit Darcy and hopefully a new KPP we may be

I disagree - This side is/was/should be capable of making finals this year and last year - Last years problem was the coach, whether it be his inability to coach, or the inability for the players to respond to him.

We have taken it right up to nearly all top 8 sides that we have played thus far. We should have beaten St Kilda, we should have beaten Port, we beat Brisbane, we should have beaten Richmond.

A lot of should haves there, but to not think this side is a top 8 side...

 

[Raw Toast]

My problem is with his own stated position of so called "re-building" this year. From the ask rocket section of the website: "As part of the development year, I’m prepared to lose some goals for these players to be able to learn to beat their men one on one. Next year it will become a focus area and it might be a cost of our attack, we mightn’t kick as many goals but we certainly will improve our defensive area. Certainly in our thoughts, we will look to seek improvements next year."
Next year we will focus on our defensive area? We will seek improvements next year?

I actually agree with Rocket's approach here - the first thing our defenders (and others) need to learn is how to beat their opponents one-on-one. If we were flooding at the moment then this could hamper our development to becoming a contender, because in the big finals it often comes down to one-on-one contests, and also to being able to take risks well, which is the other part of Rocket's development plan.

 

[stefoid]

we were always going to hit the wall without any tall forwards. its just so hard for the midfield to allways have to pass the ball into the f50. partly because it requires holding onto the ball and kicking skill under more pressure, but mostly because its a one dimensional attack. the opposition _knows_ we arent going to bomb it long.

Its good practice - if we ever do get a couple of strong marking targets up there, we will be able to mix our attacks up really well, but until then...

 

[Sedat!]

I actually agree with Rocket's approach here - the first thing our defenders (and others) need to learn is how to beat their opponents one-on-one. If we were flooding at the moment then this could hamper our development to becoming a contender, because in the big finals it often comes down to one-on-one contests, and also to being able to take risks well, which is the other part of Rocket's development plan.

Agree with this line of thinking. Our younger players need to learn to beat their opponents one-on-one. This will stand them in much better stead in future seasons. It also sorts out the wheat from the chaff in terms of playing personnel. We will need to make decisions on a number of players at season's end and what better way to do it than to see how they perform one-out against their given opponent.

 

[desipura]

Also disagree that this team is good enough to be playing finals.
Why not this year? This team is good enough to be playing finals football in '05, and i think Eade has erred in his attitude of looking ahead instead of to the present. It goes a long way to explaining us letting go of games in situations where we should not have, because the attitude is that this year is only practise, it is not do or die when we need to tough out a win, because the real stuff starts next year.cr
What a load of hogwash! We have let go games because of a combination of inexperience/personnel and self belief.
To think that the players attitude is that it is not do or die because the real stuff starts next year is ludicrous!
Eade has exceeded my expectations thus far, espacially without some of our better players for a long period of time.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Desi please learn to quote; not sure what you've written and who you've quoted.

 

[lachy]

Also disagree that this team is good enough to be playing finals.
Why not this year? This team is good enough to be playing finals football in '05, and i think Eade has erred in his attitude of looking ahead instead of to the present. It goes a long way to explaining us letting go of games in situations where we should not have, because the attitude is that this year is only practise, it is not do or die when we need to tough out a win, because the real stuff starts next year.cr
What a load of hogwash! We have let go games because of a combination of inexperience/personnel and self belief.
To think that the players attitude is that it is not do or die because the real stuff starts next year is ludicrous!
Eade has exceeded my expectations thus far, espacially without some of our better players for a long period of time.

Besides not correctly quoting I fully agree with your sentiments. Considering we have lost Darcy, Grant, Morgon and Williams who would all be playing in Key Positions, and Gia we do not have a team that realistically can make the finals this year.

I hate losing and have never been one to accept excuses, but the fact is we were deplorable in the preceding two years and had not made the finals in the two years before that so to think we would be a finals side this year is over optomistic at best.

We have had up to 10 players take the next step this year. If that many take the next step next year we will play finals, however, how people can be critical of this years performance because we are not going to make the finals defies beleif. Between 8 to 10 wins was always a realistic goal for this year considering the base we are coming from and we are still on target to achieve this.

Setting unrealistic goals is about as usefull as setting your goals too low.

 

[Derek Zoolander]

Also disagree that this team is good enough to be playing finals.
Why not this year? This team is good enough to be playing finals football in '05, and i think Eade has erred in his attitude of looking ahead instead of to the present. It goes a long way to explaining us letting go of games in situations where we should not have, because the attitude is that this year is only practise, it is not do or die when we need to tough out a win, because the real stuff starts next year.cr
What a load of hogwash! We have let go games because of a combination of inexperience/personnel and self belief.
To think that the players attitude is that it is not do or die because the real stuff starts next year is ludicrous!
Eade has exceeded my expectations thus far, espacially without some of our better players for a long period of time.

If it's not at all mental, then why do some players play better under different coaches?

Why has a side that only won 5 games last year and 8 in 2, won 6 games in 15 rounds?

 

[Derek Zoolander]

People here get slammed everytime they "can't see the big picture" for any number of reasons.

Thinking that the side we're putting out onto the ground can't make finals is just as, if not as bad.

Port Adelaide won a flag last year. The made the Prelim two years previously. Out of interest - How was Primus travelling those 3 years?

 

[lachy]

People here get slammed everytime they "can't see the big picture" for any number of reasons.

Thinking that the side we're putting out onto the ground can't make finals is just as, if not as bad.

Port Adelaide won a flag last year. The made the Prelim two years previously. Out of interest - How was Primus travelling those 3 years?

How many young players were part of that unit. They had one of the oldest lists through that time.

 

[Pembleton]

I need to make a bit of a qualification...although i stated we should be a finals team, more accurately i believe we should be sitting inside the 8 at this stage. Given our small structure and injury list, it would not be unreasonable to expect us to falter in the last third of the season. So in short, my statement is about our performances to date, not what my expectations are of what is to follow. My belief that we should be in the 8 now comes from the simple fact that we can rattle off a number of games that we really should have won, but did not. On the other hand, i can't remember one that we had no right to win but did. I totally agree that given our injuries, and given our previous two seasons, we have no right to expect that we would be a finals team this year. However, as much to my suprise as anyone elses, our actual performances have far surpassed my expectations given the injury list, and i believe given a different attitude towards this season, our performances have been good enough to take us inside the 8 at this stage of the season.

Should note that i was not singling out the specifics of going one on one in defense as the basis for my argument, but rather the attitude of focusssing on next year. However, i do find it hard to believe that occasionally dropping extra players back when the opposition has a run on (which may have been enough to get us over the line vs Port, Sydney, StKilda, Melbourne, Richmond and maybe even Freo, and for those counting, only 3 of those would be enough to have us EQUAL THIRD!) would hinder the development of defenders. We are not talking about full games here, more like 10 minute spells. I would think winning more games, and putting us on the "big stage" more often would more than compensate for any development lost by dropping numbers back when the opposition has a run on.

Setting a season up as a "development year" keeps expctations low. All we have needed to do to achieve our aims this year is be competitive. If you look at some of our performances, i believe we have generally shown a desperation to prove ourselves competitive, without having the desperation to go beyond that.

Again i will point out that i am very happy with Eade and the direction he has us heading in, things are looking fantastic for the future, including as soon as next season when Darcy looks like being close to a permanent forward, but i think we may have missed an opportunity in '05 to have the future start now.

 

[lachy]

I need to make a bit of a qualification...although i stated we should be a finals team, more accurately i believe we should be sitting inside the 8 at this stage. Given our small structure and injury list, it would not be unreasonable to expect us to falter in the last third of the season. So in short, my statement is about our performances to date, not what my expectations are of what is to follow. My belief that we should be in the 8 now comes from the simple fact that we can rattle off a number of games that we really should have won, but did not. On the other hand, i can't remember one that we had no right to win but did. I totally agree that given our injuries, and given our previous two seasons, we have no right to expect that we would be a finals team this year. However, as much to my suprise as anyone elses, our actual performances have far surpassed my expectations given the injury list, and i believe given a different attitude towards this season, our performances have been good enough to take us inside the 8 at this stage of the season.

Should note that i was not singling out the specifics of going one on one in defense as the basis for my argument, but rather the attitude of focusssing on next year. However, i do find it hard to believe that occasionally dropping extra players back when the opposition has a run on (which may have been enough to get us over the line vs Port, Sydney, StKilda, Melbourne, Richmond and maybe even Freo, and for those counting, only 3 of those would be enough to have us EQUAL THIRD!) would hinder the development of defenders. We are not talking about full games here, more like 10 minute spells. I would think winning more games, and putting us on the "big stage" more often would more than compensate for any development lost by dropping numbers back when the opposition has a run on.

Setting a season up as a "development year" keeps expctations low. All we have needed to do to achieve our aims this year is be competitive. If you look at some of our performances, i believe we have generally shown a desperation to prove ourselves competitive, without having the desperation to go beyond that.

Again i will point out that i am very happy with Eade and the direction he has us heading in, things are looking fantastic for the future, including as soon as next season when Darcy looks like being close to a permanent forward, but i think we may have missed an opportunity in '05 to have the future start now.

The problem of not setting a development year is the coach plays players to try and win games now with a team that clearly cannot win a flag so in 5 years time we are having the same discussion. Everyone talks about Essendon making the finals the last 7 years, yet since they were beaten in the 2001 GF they have not looked like winning a flag and now have a list worse than ours. They have recruited players like Murphy, Allan ,Alvey and so on who whilst they may help them win a feww H & A games to make the finals are not up to it when they get there.

In a development year you eer on the side of developing certain players and style of game. You do try to win as many as possible but you will sacrafice a few losses on the way for the long term benefit of the side. We have seen up to 10 players games develop this year. If we played defensively we may have won 2 or 3 more games, but only 5 players may have developed individually. Come next year and the year after we still will not have enough developed talent to challenge for the top 4 let alone the 8.

By calling it a development year Rocket has set the expectations for the supporters at a realistic level bearing in mind where we are coming from. However, the players cannot see this as a lower level of expectation for themselves as they are playing for their careers.

 

[Bulldogs_West]

Yer we are ready for the finals but we dont have the tall forwards or key targets like other clubs have like Brisbane - Bradshaw and Brown Kangaroos - Thompson and Rocca and talls are important in finals, but we are gonna get some Key fowards in the trade this year

 

[cleveland]

Why didnt we try and trade for Thompson???