Eddy's grand idea

[Mattwj81]

I think there is a fundamental problem with relegation in our market and in particular with the tight player controls in the AFL. Basically Melbourne get relegated and they lose all their half decent players to division 1 teams and go broke and belly up within 2 years in division 2. Then it's North, then the AFL have to funnel $7m into Brisbane....

If A team survives relegation and gets promoted back to division 1, how do they re stock a playing list?
How does the draft work? does the best kid in Australia have to play division 2? How long before that goes to court?

The EPL have a huge number of teams and an international player pool, no salary cap and no limits of recruitment apart from legal contract commitments. we have a small pool of players, a salary cap, a reverse ladder draft and 4,000km wide continent.

Actually they do have a salary cap but that its that huge that it doesnt really matter...

But you would have the draft as it is but first round for division 2 and second round division 1 etc and the free agency rules as now. The teams can only trade with teams in the same division. No preseason draft. So the players would be able to move but it would be after a period using current free agency rules that should allow a div 2 team to rise up.

 

[The Prince 29]

18 teams (too many), but...

A proper pre season competition (short quarters) with a proper winning incentive (3-4 weeks)

A weeks rest

17 rounds play each other team once over 18 weeks (mid season split round bye) only unbiased way. Many will say that TV will not be happy, but other sporting comps generally have shorter seasons, and the product is diluted over such a long period. Having said that, there are still 9 games per week, more than enough. TV will pay anyway, or loose the contract.

A weeks rest before finals. (Big build up and players with niggles will be better prepared)

Finals competition (8 teams) 4 weeks

A weeks rest before the Grand Final (Brownlow, Grand Final Parade etc)

G.F.

Season over 25 weeks + pre season comp.

 

[HFF]

Idiocy....and I've never said that about Ed.

 

[MarkT2]

Actually they do have a salary cap but that its that huge that it doesnt really matter...

But you would have the draft as it is but first round for division 2 and second round division 1 etc and the free agency rules as now. The teams can only trade with teams in the same division. No preseason draft. So the players would be able to move but it would be after a period using current free agency rules that should allow a div 2 team to rise up.

I'd be pretty confident that the rules would be thrown out of court if they prevented the best kids playing in the best comp. It's all academic anyway because the division 2 teams would go broke pretty quickly.

 

[PieNSauce]

In fairness to Ed, I can see some merit in trying to find some equity but he seems to be attempting to address multiple issues and the approach is way to complex. I'd never be in favour of direct entry into the finals system on the back of something that happened before the season even started. That's a recipe for disaster and hands that team a massive advantage. Where is the incentive for such a team to play its best team each week during the home and away season? It might make some sense to hand the preseason winner some bonus premiership points because then they at least still have to earn entry into the finals albeit with a small advantage but IMO, handing them direct entry would be lunacy.

I tend to agree that any change faces a massive hurdle because most people are very resistant to change but I'm personally not totally against change because I'd love to see far more equity in any discreet season. As far as I'm concerned, trying to even things out over multiple seasons is a fatally flawed mechanism when there are so many other mechanisms in place to even out competition. For true equity, each discreet season needs to have intrinsic fairness independent of previous season results. Draft/Trading priorities alone should be sufficient to deal with evening up competition across multiple seasons. Why confuse and complicate the two issues? The obvious issue Ed tries to address in regard to equity is the length of the season and the number of teams and so although I'm not totally sold on a grouping system, there does seem to be some merit in it at least conceptually.

 

[Mattwj81]

I'd be pretty confident that the rules would be thrown out of court if they prevented the best kids playing in the best comp. It's all academic anyway because the division 2 teams would go broke pretty quickly.

Yeah its was just an idea but really if anyone challenged the draft and salary cap in a court they would be thrown out too as they are both restraints on trade. The second Div would needed to propped up.

Really the only right way to do the fixture is to have everyone play twice but its getting access to grounds that would be an issue for this as the season would creep too much into the cricket season.

The Truth is we have too many teams in VIC and mergers should happen but no one likes the idea of losing teams, the VFL should never have become the AFL. The AFL should have been a clean slate with a selection of teams invited to join.

 

[PIES 4 LIFE]

Idiocy....and I've never said that about Ed.

Idiocy is a bit harsh, yeah the idea is a bit radical, but in a way I do agree with his sentiment.
Either give the NAB cup some meaning or get rid of it, because at the moment no top team actually takes it seriously, even when it was for prize money. He came up with an extreme, which even probably he doesn't believe will come in, in order for the AFL to actually make it a serious competition instead of a joke.

As for evening out the real season, who knows what the fairest system may be.

 

[North park]

The preseason idea is just crazy!!!! if you wanna make it more interesting give the winner another 1st round draft pick the next season.

The NAB Cup originated from a mid-week mid-year night series started in the 1970's. This was a time when all matches were played on a Saturday afternoon and only the highlights of the main game were replayed on a Saturday night (nothing live, no Friday night games, no Sunday games). The night series gave the then VFL the opportunity to play additional games and broadcast them live on a Tuesday night into people's homes. From memory, the night series was moved to the pre-season in the early 1990's and gradually became the new 'practice matches' for teams. Its only in the last couple of years the AFL has removed the knock-out element and offered prize money to the grand final winner as an incentive.

Unless the AFL decides to re-introduce this incentive, the NAB Challenge should simply be treated as practice matches. Every club in every competition in Australia normally plays 2-3 practice matches prior to the first game in order to improve fitness, develop game plans and analyse new players under 'match-type' conditions. Most other major sports also play pre-season or practice matches as a lead up to the main season with either no reward or a monetary reward (plus some awful looking trophy) for the winner of the pre-season competition. The AFL should be no different - treat them as practice matches against other clubs (in addition to intra-club matches) or re-instate the NAB Cup as a pre-season competition with prizemoney to the winner.

 

[North park]

18 teams (too many), but...

A proper pre season competition (short quarters) with a proper winning incentive (3-4 weeks)

A weeks rest

17 rounds play each other team once over 18 weeks (mid season split round bye) only unbiased way. Many will say that TV will not be happy, but other sporting comps generally have shorter seasons, and the product is diluted over such a long period. Having said that, there are still 9 games per week, more than enough. TV will pay anyway, or loose the contract.

A weeks rest before finals. (Big build up and players with niggles will be better prepared)

Finals competition (8 teams) 4 weeks

A weeks rest before the Grand Final (Brownlow, Grand Final Parade etc)

G.F.

Season over 25 weeks + pre season comp.

I am a big fan of the 17 round season with each team playing all others once only. Playing a team at home this year means you play them away next year.

Reducing the season by 5 rounds means that finals positions will become even more contested and it helps eliminates 'meaningless' games towards the end of these season when teams rest players (for finals) or have them finish early for surgeries (for teams not in the finals). The workload each game is harder for players now than in the past, so a shorter season should see the better players on the field for longer in the games they do play (less injuries, less need to be rested).

Its whether the AFL and TV are willing to give up broadcasting the 45 games the season would be reduced by. You would think the quality of the games and the interest interest in them would increase even if the quantity of games decreased.

 

[The Prince 29]

I am a big fan of the 17 round season with each team playing all others once only. Playing a team at home this year means you play them away next year.

Reducing the season by 5 rounds means that finals positions will become even more contested and it helps eliminates 'meaningless' games towards the end of these season when teams rest players (for finals) or have them finish early for surgeries (for teams not in the finals). The workload each game is harder for players now than in the past, so a shorter season should see the better players on the field for longer in the games they do play (less injuries, less need to be rested).

Its whether the AFL and TV are willing to give up broadcasting the 45 games the season would be reduced by. You would think the quality of the games and the interest interest in them would increase even if the quantity of games decreased.

The AFL are interested in the contract size $$$, TV may not be that willing initially, but won't have any choice if the AFL goes this way. The content will be better, the last few weeks have many dead rubbers anyway with little interest to most viewers (eg ratings) so the the contract size will not diminish over the medium term, and the competition between the networks will ensure that the money will probably still increase.

 

[North park]

The AFL are interested in the contract size $$$, TV may not be that willing initially, but won't have any choice if the AFL goes this way. The content will be better, the last few weeks have many dead rubbers anyway with little interest to most viewers (eg ratings) so the the contract size will not diminish over the medium term, and the competition between the networks will ensure that the money will probably still increase.

One other factor to consider is the travelling by non-Victorian clubs. They often complain about the amount of travelling their players have to endure each year - generally 10 games plus finals. The shorter season means that teams like West Coast or Fremantle will only have to travel 8 times during the home & away season. It may take involvement from the Players Association to pressure the AFL to introduce a shorter season for player welfare.

As you say though, the AFL seems more interested in providing more product for more networks for more $$$. However, sometimes less is more.

 

[Ulahoopski]

You've got to respect the rules.
It's the finals, it's the league

Abbotsford Convent outdoor cinema tonight!! Wish I was in Melbourne.

 

[noideaatall]

You can't polish a turd, no matter how hard Eddie tries. The fixture, too many teams and lack of a team in Tassie and Darwin make this whole thing a dried up proverbial. Change can and will happen, the league has changed extensively over my lifetime. Some brave and unpopular decisions have to be made to bring this whole thing out of the poo and polishable. The hardest will be to get rid of a few Melbourne sides and not by the drawn out pain of having them go stony broke. Change the basic issue - too many teams - and the whole fixture business is easy to tweak.

 

[Ulahoopski]

Forget Eddie, the league need to listen to me. NAB Cup, through to the Grand Final (including current byes and weeks between the NAB and H&A season) is 32 weeks. Using these 32 weeks, my season would be as followed.

Week 1-2: NAB Cup. Keep the preseason competition, not that it means anything. It would just give teams an opportunity to start implementing structures and seek out their best 22 for round 1.

Week 3: Week off to prepare for round 1.

Week 4-23: Every team plays each other once with the aiming of trying to qualify for the top 6. This means 17 rounds of football, plus after 8 games, so week 12, we have a bye. Week 13 is an All-Star Weekend at the MCG, live music during the day, face painting and clinics for the kids etc, representation from every club with merchandise/membership tents/player signatures etc. Kind of what the Australian Open offers and what the league did on 2015 GF day but on a grander scale. The main attraction of the weekend could be a State of Origin or some sort of showcase game. It would be an opportunity to have maybe a full day of football starting off early and going until late like a normal 7:45 game. Could be a Women's rep game followed by a Vic Metro vs Vic Country game, followed by the VFL Grand Final replay, followed by an Origin clash or something. 4 games of football exposing fans to all levels, ages and genders that they might not usually get to see. There's lots of opportunities for something in that spot. Then week 14 would be another bye, and week 15 would commence the next 9 games.

Week 24-28: This is when the competition heats up. In my utopian season, the ladder would now become irrelevant. You've either qualified for the top, middle or bottom 6.

Teams 1-6 are locked in for finals. Their next 5 games will come against the other 5 teams that make up the top 6. Regardless of the ladder from the first 17 games, the 6th place side is just as much chance for a home qualifying final as the first place side. On the off chance the 6th side has a W/L ratio of 5-0 from their 5, they'll finish 1st. The first 17 games are purely to qualify, once qualified it's anyone's race right up until the end of round 23.

Teams 7-12 will play their final 5 games against each other also. Their prize will be the remaining two spots in the finals.

Teams 13-18 will play off for the first pick in a lottery, not the first pick itself. The team with the best W/L record picks first, second best picks second, so on and so forth. This eliminates teams not doing everything in their power to win, because there's no reward for doing so.

So for example, the ladder on the left is after 17 games is where teams qualify and dictates what their next 5 games will mean. The ladder then gets dismantled, teams play their 5 game series and then the ladder gets reconfigured with the new standings, as seen on the right.

After 17 Games………..W/L record after the final 5
Hawks 16-1……..………...Eagles 5-0 (Home QF)
Dockers 15-2…..………...Hawks 4-1 (Home QF)
Swans 13-4……..………...Pies 3-2 (Away QF)
Eagles 11-6………………...Swans 2-3 (Away QF)
Crows 10-7………………….Dockers 1-4 (Home EF)
Pies 10-7……………………..Crows 0-5 (Home EF)

Tigers 9-8…………………...North 5-0 (Away EF)
Cats 9-8……………………….Tigers 4-1 (Away EF)
Dogs 9-8……………………..Cats 3-2 (9th/Draft Pick #10)
North 8-9…………………….Giants 2-3 (10th/Draft Pick #9)
Power 8-9…………………...Dogs 1-4 (11th/Draft Pick #8)
Giants 8-9…………………...Power 0-5 (12th/Draft Pick #7)

Saints 7-10………………….Saints 5-0 (13th/1st lottery pick)
Suns 7-10…………………...Demons 4-1 (14th/2nd LP)
Demons 6-11……………….Lions 3-2 (15th/3rd LP)
Bombers 4-13……………..Suns 2-3 (16th/4th LP)
Lions 2-15…………………...Bombers 1-4 (17th/5th LP)
Blues 1-16…………………..Blues 0-5 (18th/6th LP)

Draft pick order for picks 1-6 would be determined through a lottery, so despite Carlton having the 6th lottery pick, they still may end up with pick 1. Picks 7-10 are for the sides who finished 9th-12th, then picks 11-18 will be determined after the finals.

Week 29-32: Finals played in the exact same format as they currently are. Week 29- 2xQF, 2xEF, Week 30- 2xSF, Week 31- 2xPF, Week 32- 1xGF.

Over a two year period, the first 17 games will see each team will play each other twice, once at home and once away.

My format gives the players two byes, engages the fans with an AFL style carnival mid season, balances out fixturing, doesn't mess with the current finals format, eliminates the idea of tanking because there is literally zero reward for not fielding your best available side and trying to win, and gives every team incentive to perform right up until the conclusion of round 23. Teams that under the current system would be 'mathematically' out of contention for a home final, or any finals at all are well and truly in the hunt. Supporters would just need to adapt and understand that the first 17 games are purely for qualifying and are meaningless in the last 5 games. In the above example of the ladder, Hawthorn have actually won 20 and lost 2, whereas West Coast have won 16 and lost 6. The idea is though, that if West Coast have performed well enough to qualifying for the top 6, then they have just as much chance of home final as every one else, even if under the current system they find themselves 5 games off top spot.

Anywho, it'll never come to fruition, but since Eddie is seeking revolution, I thought I'd share my grand plan

I'm for just leaving it alone - the best 4 teams almost always end up playing in the prelims and the best team of the year usually get the premiership. Having said that, if they were dead set on changing it, your system is a good option. Except for the bottom 6 business - I'd substitute 1st pick for 1st LP. Otherwise there's no advantage in playing to win in that last 5 weeks.