Effective transition from the backline

[Tony_Clifton]

this has been a major bug bear of coaching staff and supporters. It is hard to identify how this will improve given the loss of a better disposal man in mj. We flood back so hard that getting it forward is often hamstrung. In an ideal world we would have have ballas leading at the ball carrier and son son running towards goals.

In my opinion it is two things, lack of confidence and and lack of skill. The only way It works is when Hilly has he ball and that doesn't happen enough.

I would personally like players to play in their most attacking positions. Hill on a wing, Barlow in the middle, Mayne leading up as a decoy and Walters deep forward.

Having all our players in the back half then having to hold up and go sideways is a worse outcome than having Walters deep forward and Mayne leading up.

Taberner's an unusual one, I would like to see him just play to is strength and run, run, run. He In my opinion should just run till he's stuffed. Get cheap position on half back or wing by running hard and let the more skilful players do their job.

Sorry needed to edi and include Sutty and Sherro. They are both are ok but their kicks float a bit. If they had decent movement htey would look a lot better but unfortunately it's just not happening. Harder run off the ball would help them, as would more penetratin kicks.

As an aside I have a secret love of Clancy because he can deliver a low kick towards the centre of he ground.

Come at me.

 

[Bicco]

Mitsubishi will be happy with your secret love.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

this has been a major bug bear of coaching staff and supporters. It is hard to identify how this will improve given the loss of a better disposal man in mj. We flood back so hard that getting it forward is often hamstrung. In an ideal world we would have have ballas leading at the ball carrier and son son running towards goals.

In my opinion it is two things, lack of confidence and and lack of skill. The only way I works is when Hilly has he ball and that doesn't happen enough.

I would personally like players to play in their most attacking positions. Hill on a wing, Barlow in he middle, Mayne leading up as a decoy and Walters deep forward.

Having all our players in the back half hen having to hold up and go sideways is a worse outcome than having Walters deep forward and Mayne leading up.

Taberner's an unusual one, I would like to see him just play to is strength and run, run, run. He In my opinion should just run till he's stuffed. Get cheap position on half back or wing by running hard and let the more skilful players do their job.

Sorry needed to edi and include Sutty and Sherro. They are both ok but heir kicks float a bit. If they had decent movement hey would look a lot better but unfortunately it's just no happening. Harder run off the ball would help them, as would more penetratin kicks.

As an aside I have a secre love of a lancer because he can deliver a low kick towards the centre of he ground.

Come at me.

A lancer?

 

[Tony_Clifton]

Working off a small tablet, but yeah a lancer might help. But before you take a city, you might as well wait for artillery

 

[MadDocker]

Think we flood too far back to defense and it chokes up our escape.

I realise the opposition has some say in this, but, heaps of times on Sunday our forwards lead their opponent into the square leaving no one in the forward 50. Once we got a turn over, they were either too far up the ground or to slow legging back towards goal. This meant there was players everywhere from our defensive 50 arc to the attacking side of the square which made it too hard to transition through.

Our players also don't have lightning pace to win the race back onto the ball towards goal and were beaten or equal to the defenders when the over the top kick was tried on a few occasions.

IMO (Disclaimer: I'm no expert) we need to flood less, open up the ground more and this could help with getting the ball out of defense easier.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

Think we flood too far back to defense and it chokes up our escape.

I realise the opposition has some say in this, but, heaps of times on Sunday our forwards lead their opponent into the square leaving no one in the forward 50. Once we got a turn over, they were either too far up the ground or to slow legging back towards goal. This meant there was players everywhere from our defensive 50 arc to the attacking side of the square which made it too hard to transition through.

Our players also don't have lightning pace to win the race back onto the ball towards goal and were beaten or equal to the defenders when the over the top kick was tried on a few occasions.

IMO (Disclaimer: I'm no expert) we need to flood less, open up the ground more and this could help with getting the ball out of defense easier.

Nice job with your grammar

 

[MadDocker]

Have not proof read and not sure if serious or jesting...

Will therefore take your comment as a personal attack and I call bricks at 10 paces.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

Have not proof read and not sure if serious or jesting...

Will therefore take your comment as a personal attack and I call bricks at 10 paces.

Please don't brick me, I have neither the body or brains to cope with it

 

[beetz]

With melts come pointless threads that could be covered in already established threads it seems

 

[Tony_Clifton]

With melts come pointless threads that could be covered in already established threads it seems

***hugs***

 

[dockshark]

I spent most of Sunday's game watching behind and in front of the ball rather than focussing on the ball itself. I think there's more to it than skill and confidence. I think we have real structural issues, and a lack of consistency in our ball movement compounding the structural problems.

I think too often players are looking up and seeing a confused structure with lack of strong targets. We seem to be caught often with parallel running, and lack of effective space creation.

Our forwards worked their arses off, and did some real gut running but did not actually present often enough as selectable options. I think there is a real sense of confusion mid forward, and this is the real issue, albeit we could still use more elite ball users. At the moment even elite ball users are struggling to penetrate.

 

[couldhavebeen]

The problem is that the coaches have come up with a new more attacking game plan based on quick ball movement and uncontested football , the plan requires the players to make quick instinctive concise decision when they have the ball in hand and our players are below the skill level required .
Hawthorn took years to learn this style and went through a large number of players before they perfected it .
Hawthorn players are encouraged to take the game on .Their players do turn the ball over and they often miss quite a few kicks at goal but they work harder than their opponents to win the ball back and their physical pressure on their immediate opponent is intense . Even without their best full forward they have so many options in their forward line . RTB needs to re think the mechanics of the game plan and encourage our players to not hand pass to a player that is just 2 meters away , flat footed and manned up but to look for payers 5 and 10 metres away in space .If those players in close are maned up then they SHOULD PUT THE BALL INTO SPACE by hand or foot so that our players can run onto it . Clancee Pearce is a prime example of a player who has been trying to carry out the plan but in his effort to hit up a player he too often chose the option that was far too risky and quite often cause a turnover in the corridor and the opposition then had easy passage into their forward 50 .
If he thought about it just a little bit more he has the quality in his kicking to put the ball goal sided into space for the forwards to run onto the ball thus the other players would not have been caught out of position .
Too often in games this year players are trying to do a series of lightning fast hand passes in close proximity too each other and this chain of hand passes breaks down due to a fumble .Everyone is then blocked in by the weight of numbers and the opposition then get an easy clearance because we don't have players on the outside of the pack because everyone has been drawn in to the contest .

At stoppages we don't seam to have any players on the defensive side of the pack. We almost never have a player in space waiting for the ball to be fed to them from a stoppage either . Hawthorn and Sydney would have to be the best at this strategy .I would name Ablett on top of the list of players who position themselves best at stoppages .

 

[meima]

The problem is that the coaches have come up with a new more attacking game plan based on quick ball movement and uncontested football , the plan requires the players to make quick instinctive concise decision when they have the ball in hand and our players are below the skill level required .
Hawthorn took years to learn this style and went through a large number of players before they perfected it .
Hawthorn players are encouraged to take the game on .Their players do turn the ball over and they often miss quite a few kicks at goal but they work harder than their opponents to win the ball back and their physical pressure on their immediate opponent is intense . Even without their best full forward they have so many options in their forward line . RTB needs to re think the mechanics of the game plan and encourage our players to not hand pass to a player that is just 2 meters away , flat footed and manned up but to look for payers 5 and 10 metres away in space .If those players in close are maned up then they SHOULD PUT THE BALL INTO SPACE by hand or foot so that our players can run onto it . Clancee Pearce is a prime example of a player who has been trying to carry out the plan but in his effort to hit up a player he too often chose the option that was far too risky and quite often cause a turnover in the corridor and the opposition then had easy passage into their forward 50 .
If he thought about it just a little bit more he has the quality in his kicking to put the ball goal sided into space for the forwards to run onto the ball thus the other players would not have been caught out of position .
Too often in games this year players are trying to do a series of lightning fast hand passes in close proximity too each other and this chain of hand passes breaks down due to a fumble .Everyone is then blocked in by the weight of numbers and the opposition then get an easy clearance because we don't have players on the outside of the pack because everyone has been drawn in to the contest .

At stoppages we don't seam to have any players on the defensive side of the pack. We almost never have a player in space waiting for the ball to be fed to them from a stoppage either . Hawthorn and Sydney would have to be the best at this strategy .I would name Ablett on top of the list of players who position themselves best at stoppages .

I though we doing the same last year after Richmond game, player always hand ball sky high to teamate where 2 opposition near him. As much I like Sandi, if he can occasionally get the ball and kick it rather than handball also help. Middle of last year our player just don't want the ball as long they pass to teammate whether he is underpressure or not is his problem. Another option is to look for boundary all this is previous game plan stoppage habit , now without Sandi and fyfe we will get worse.once we don't get first use , the ball just keep coming at Johnson, Dawson,a.Pearce. then you had spurr, sutty,hills, sheriden, d.Pearce create turn over, the ball coming back to your defence 50 again.

 

[Freo Dr]

We have various problems but some of it is structural.

Pav cannot be the deepest forward anymore, it needs to be a speedy player like Walters or even Langdon could be good in that role. Ballantyne should be good but now injured? Think how Hawthorn is using Puopolo ATM, who much as we hate him he is very fast and they just kick it in front of him (or Rioli) running back to goal. Get Pav and Tabs up on the HFF to wings area kicking it to smaller types provided of course we can hit actually hit them or move it fast enough out of defense to be able to pop it in front of them to run on to going back towards goal on a fast break.

Secondly we are rolling back too much and getting in the way of each other out of defense. Comes from a lack of confidence in the defence/general nerves and players not knowing their roles well enough.

Stoppage structures are struggling as others above have said, losing 211 and now Fyfe has not helped.

 

[Bicco]

Am I the only one that sees a lot of Neeshams precise short kicking/ handball and creating/filling space in the way the game is moving? Im not saying it's exactly the same but his structures would do pretty well in the modern game I think.

 

[johnnomac]

... Our forwards worked their arses off, and did some real gut running but did not actually present often enough as selectable options. I think there is a real sense of confusion mid forward, and this is the real issue, albeit we could still use more elite ball users. At the moment even elite ball users are struggling to penetrate.

I agree with you Dockshark. I'm not sure if I am being completely objective about last Saturday's game, but although the forwards were gut running the ball was being presented 2m in front, the side or above them. Poor delivery = poor skills.

 

[Freo Dr]

Am I the only one that sees a lot of Neeshams precise short kicking/ handball and creating/filling space in the way the game is moving? Im not saying it's exactly the same but his structures would do pretty well in the modern game I think.

No you are not. Maybe we need him back to replace Mark Webb as our current midfield coach...

Neesham was way ahead of his time but could never get the players or culture he needed to employ it and was also hampered by having to play on mudbowl Victorian grounds at the time versus dry WA footy decks. That said his handling of Mcleod and other player management/trading (e.g. Bell, Farmer and others) ensured our struggle to climb the ladder went on longer that it needed to.