Elite Players

[valkorum]

the english language has not yet developed a word to describe how bad johnson is

2 words....... finger pointing

 

[theGav56]

the english language has not yet developed a word to describe how bad johnson is

For most of his time with us, the English language has come up with the words "best 22". Be interesting to see if Lyon describes him in the same words.

 

[DockerLand1]

For most of his time with us, the English language has come up with the words "best 22". Be interesting to see if Lyon describes him in the same words.

It will be one of the most interesting aspects of 2012. I am as curious as Hell to see if Lyon is going to be able to get the most out of MJ. Personally, if he could play regularly like he does when he wants to, giving 100% we would be much better off as a team.

If he is up to his old selfish ways, drifting by on talent alone. He is not going to break into the best 22 and WAFL is going to be his new home. He has never had that ultimatum before. It will be great to see how he responds.

 

[greatgatsby]

Unlikely that MJ is best 22 under Ross, without dramatic improvement in attitude and performance. This is a good thing. Can you picture MJ playing in a premiership team?

 

[theGav56]

Unlikely that MJ is best 22 under Ross, without dramatic improvement in attitude and performance. This is a good thing. Can you picture MJ playing in a premiership team?

Yeah most of us thought that when Harvey was here. No improvement in attitude or performance, and still breezes into the best 22 + contract extension.

I think MJ is going to have a problem because he has a non-specific role in the team. As the depth builds, he should become easier to leave out as the roles become filled with best player for that role, rather than players who can do a few roles, but not lock any of them down as their own=MJ.

 

[yakka man]

MJ should of been given a one year contract extension, not two IMO.

 

[E Shed]

MJ is a very good footballer when up and about. Was consistently in our best toward the end of 2010 and very good in finals. It is very fashionable to bash him here but he can play. Yes he looks laconic and yes he was down on form this year but so were many others.

 

[yakka man]

MJ is a very good footballer when up and about. Was consistently in our best toward the end of 2010 and very good in finals. It is very fashionable to bash him here but he can play. Yes he looks laconic and yes he was down on form this year but so were many others.

I just don't really like him. Never trains hard, never see him busting his guts on the field, never see him really commit to a contest or chase and tackle and he always has that dumb stoned look on his face. No doubt he has talent but he will be 28 next year and seems to have been given a free ride for a while.

 

[E Shed]

I just don't really like him. Never trains hard, never see him busting his guts on the field, never see him really commit to a contest or chase and tackle and he always has that dumb stoned look on his face. No doubt he has talent but he will be 28 next year and seems to have been given a free ride for a while.

Sure & that's your opinion and fair enough.
There is just something that gets my back up about everybody hopping in to one player. It reminds me of school when one kid would get bullied and the gang mentality forms. It's compounded to some extent by the fact that guys who make it to the AFL have done more than most of us who criticise them. I'm all for constructive criticism and I don't deny anyone the right to say anything but when it gets to the level of everyone standing around putting the boot in I feel the need to have my say and defend that player.
The fact is Johnson has played some very good footy in his time. Not often enough and not to the heights that some expected but none the less he's a sometimes excellent AFL footballer and he plays for us.

 

[yakka man]

Sure & that's your opinion and fair enough.
There is just something that gets my back up about everybody hopping in to one player. It reminds me of school when one kid would get bullied and the gang mentality forms. It's compounded to some extent by the fact that guys who make it to the AFL have done more than most of us who criticise them. I'm all for constructive criticism and I don't deny anyone the right to say anything but when it gets to the level of everyone standing around putting the boot in I feel the need to have my say and defend that player.
The fact is Johnson has played some very good footy in his time. Not often enough and not to the heights that some expected but none the less he's a sometimes excellent AFL footballer and he plays for us.

Yeah I know but just because he plays for us doesn't mean I'm forced to like him. If it wasn't deserved criticism I would totally agree with you.

 

[chinggis77]

How did Mundy not make that list? Even Ross rates him as one of our A-graders.

 

[Belnakor]

The stats were compiled and analysed by Champion Data, not HUN writers (so a little less subjectivity in them, although the exact measures are never given).

the problem with Champion Data is they don't tell you their methology for generating stats, the general public has basically no idea how accurate their stats are - its essentially "trust us, we are the official stats for the AFL" - gee thanks guys.

For all we know their methology is flawed.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

I just don't really like him. Never trains hard, never see him busting his guts on the field, never see him really commit to a contest or chase and tackle and he always has that dumb stoned look on his face. No doubt he has talent but he will be 28 next year and seems to have been given a free ride for a while.

agree

Sure & that's your opinion and fair enough.
There is just something that gets my back up about everybody hopping in to one player. It reminds me of school when one kid would get bullied and the gang mentality forms. It's compounded to some extent by the fact that guys who make it to the AFL have done more than most of us who criticise them. I'm all for constructive criticism and I don't deny anyone the right to say anything but when it gets to the level of everyone standing around putting the boot in I feel the need to have my say and defend that player.
The fact is Johnson has played some very good footy in his time. Not often enough and not to the heights that some expected but none the less he's a sometimes excellent AFL footballer and he plays for us.

my biggest gripe with him is the fact that whenever the chips are down, he goes missing. other than in 2010 finals series, which he was good, when has he ever come through for us? never, its the same reason i didnt rate headland, you need players that will step up when the going is bad, not just when the game is easy

 

[Selggad]

Looking through the list of players considered elite, I was say Champion data is a crock of s***. If half those players are elite the height of the bar for elite has moved from 'elite' to 'ordinary'.

 

[E Shed]

agree



my biggest gripe with him is the fact that whenever the chips are down, he goes missing. other than in 2010 finals series, which he was good, when has he ever come through for us? never, its the same reason i didnt rate headland, you need players that will step up when the going is bad, not just when the game is easy

Why does 2010 finals not count? It's the 2nd closest we've gotten to the big dance in our history & he was in our best. IMO that gives him credits in the column for performance in crucial situation.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Why does 2010 finals not count? It's the 2nd closest we've gotten to the big dance in our history & he was in our best. IMO that gives him credits in the column for performance in crucial situation.

it does count. other than those 2 games, he largely goes missing when we need him

 

[Damarus]

Champion Data ie. Supercoach points. It's a good system as far as stat based ranking goes (a very difficult thing to gauge effectively) but it's still just putting numbers next to stats at the end of the day, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[KePLOW]

it does count. other than those 2 games, he largely goes missing when we need him

Make that three: I seem to recall our finals series started a week early in 2010 with that critical game against Carlton (after the strategic Tassie forfeit) and MJ probably busted out his best ever performance that night.

I rate MJ. I think he's still best 22 and his 2011 performances weren't half as bad as most make out here. I've seen him be selfless; doing the team orientated thing on many an occasion. His tendency to draw in two or three players then tap/flick the ball out to a runner on the outside is up there with my all time favorite traits of any Docker I've seen. Many of you might miss the value he brings to the side because you're only ever looking for the flaws in his game.

Having said this, I also sympathise with everyone's gripes. For example sure he had a great 2010 finals series but I still haven't forgiven him for that moment when he let the ball dribble through for a behind after the quarter time siren in the elimination final. It clearly highlighted his ability to switch off and opt for a lackadaisical approach to his footy. I have seen him hit packs hard and then shirk his very next contest. He can be truly frustrating but I've really gotta feeling Ross can iron this out of his game. Don't discount his chances to be a real weapon for us this year if Lyon can get through to him.

 

[Scham]

it does count. other than those 2 games, he largely goes missing when we need him

Who do we have that stands up when the chips are down though?

Those two games (and there's others) are more than most on our list can be credited for.

Oh and MJ is rock solid compared to Des. That guy never stood up when we needed him most.

 

[Scham]

I just don't really like him. Never trains hard, never see him busting his guts on the field, never see him really commit to a contest or chase and tackle and he always has that dumb stoned look on his face. No doubt he has talent but he will be 28 next year and seems to have been given a free ride for a while.

Actually he's a very good trainer.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Who do we have that stands up when the chips are down though?

Those two games (and there's others) are more than most on our list can be credited for.

Oh and MJ is rock solid compared to Des. That guy never stood up when we needed him most.

Luke mcpharlin- always plays well no matter what stage he is on
alex silvagni- whenever we were under seige last year, silvagni was a rock in defense
Matthew Pavlich- always there when it counts
Aaron sandilands- I cant remember the last time he had a bad game, other than when he has played injured of course

I reckon there is a couple more in there like broughton or maybe fyfe

but johnson other than a handful of ok to great games is in general useless. He would have been in the top 3 worst on ground players for a majority of last year in the games where we were beaten

good to see he got a 2 year deal though .... just about the worst list management decision we have made in the last ten years that one

 

[salim malik]

Haters gunna hate

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Haters gunna hate

yep. im pretty sure i said a while ago i wasnt going to continue on with the johnson thing, but somehow i have allowed myself to be sucked back in.... hopefully he will play 22 wafl games next year and he can no longer be the most frustrating player to have pulled on our jumper.... anyway, im back on the not bagging johnson bandwagon.... will stop as of ...................... now!

and scham you are right, johnson does train really well

 

[kp junior]

yep. im pretty sure i said a while ago i wasnt going to continue on with the johnson thing, but somehow i have allowed myself to be sucked back in.... hopefully he will play 22 wafl games next year and he can no longer be the most frustrating player to have pulled on our jumper.... anyway, im back on the not bagging johnson bandwagon.... will stop as of ...................... now!

and scham you are right, johnson does train really well

As the season 2010/2011 slip further into the memory, you will find more resistance to the MJ is Useless movement. Preseason optimism and all that. But don't worry KPR, I remember just what a liability he has been. A tall, versatile, skinny-fat liability.

 

[Clay Davis]

Haters gunna hate

They sure will.

Also KPR I bow to your opinion of Johnson .

Battered wife syndrome.