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Ellis / Vlastuin / Conca

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DrMike said:
Completely agree, and they're all such good foils for our first line mids in Cotchin, Lids and Martin.

Just for some reference here are their 2013 averages:
View attachment 39995

They all play completely different roles and they're all very good at it. You can see how Conca plays in the guts and on players with his higher clearances, higher free's and higher tackles. Ellis you can see plays on the wing and in defence with his high disposal efficiency, marks and uncontested possessions. Vlastuin is a first year half back, got the tackles but low clearances and high 1%'ers and overall lower possession count.
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Great analysis, I also think Ellis' stats are particularly impressive given he started sub a few games, Conca's impressive because he wasnt fully fit and Vlastuin's for being a first year player.
 
Top_4_Tiger said:
This group of 3 young midfielders are all exciting in their own ways. In the future, most of us would expect all three to be important players who really give our midfield some classy depth with hardness and leadership.

Who do you think will be the best of the three?
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Ellis for mine. Really like him and the cut of his jib
Conca still does too many dumb things and he has bizarre ball drop at times and no left foot.
Vlastuans pace is a slight worry
 
juss said:
Vlastuin's not what I'd call athletic. Not overly quick, doesn't jump that high, not extremely agile or evasive it.
Athleticism wouldn't be one of his strong suits tbh.
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Actually I disagree with this. when he is going he isn't what I call slow. He can jump high enough when needed ie that mark in the back 50 when all the other players wouldn't go for the ball v the blues. That blind turns would say he is evasive and agile.
 

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coops1980 said:
Ellis for mine. Really like him and the cut of his jib
Conca still does too many dumb things and he has bizarre ball drop at times and no left foot.
Vlastuans pace is a slight worry
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I would say that Conca still has to tune up his decision making a little( goes for a little too much sometimes) but I still it is fine( more experience at the level will help this). However I think the same of Ellis as well. His ball drop can be a little funny just like Conca and I think both their left foots' can be dodgy. Vlastuin pace is fine as he sees the play a little quicker than most and is already onto the next play, plus his top end speed isn't slow anyway. His kicking is the best of the 3 imo.
 
I dont get the critisism of Vlastuins speed, i dont actually remember him looking slow in any passage of play through-out the year, if anything he broke away from plays with evasiveness and some speed. He rarely got tackled, you can see the cogs turning when he has the ball, he thinks about what he is gonna do with it, therefore his decision making is superb. I think he will be the best of the three, at the moment Ellis is my favourite though, he has developed so rapidly its shocked me, without his sub games this year how many possessions would he have averaged? im guessing something like 22-23 which is amazing. i think Conca can turn into an inside beast, which would be awesomeeeeee, he has the evasiveness and hands to do it . Feels good to have three young guns developing shackle free because we already have Cotch, Dusty and Lids taking most of the attention.
 
juss said:
My main criticism of Conca is his ability to use the footy. It's not great and I've seen him kick some absolute shockers.
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I actually reckon hes fairly decent by foot. With the improvement in his fitness he will hit more targets
 
I remember a few years ago we used to talk up our fab 3 of Cotch, Dusty and Lids but throw in Ellis, Conca and Vlastuin (and possibly Helbig and Arnot) too supported by Jacko, Foley and Grigg and it's a pretty solid midfield rotation!
 
THE_GUN said:
I cant really put my finger on it but still believe that we are 1 Elite midfielder short of where we can say - We are there
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Ben Lennon :D Wishful thinking :p
 

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NUFC Tiger said:
I remember a few years ago we used to talk up our fab 3 of Cotch, Dusty and Lids but throw in Ellis, Conca and Vlastuin (and possibly Helbig and Arnot) too supported by Jacko, Foley and Grigg and it's a pretty solid midfield rotation!
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And Mcdoungh :p
 
captain cotch 9 said:
By the end of 2014 we will add Mcdoungh to this group. I just watched the interview with him in the website. The kid is as determined as Ellis and Vlaustin and will (nothing against Jake) take Kings spot in the team by halfway through this year!
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Haven't seen the interview yet but do agree with this. He is the best kick of the football at the club and he reads the ball at ground level as well as anyone and is brilliantly evasive in close.
 
Calcium Man said:
Haven't seen the interview yet but do agree with this. He is the best kick of the football at the club and he reads the ball at ground level as well as anyone and is brilliantly evasive in close.
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Yep once he loses his Puppy fat and gets a bit of a tank, look out. Our very own Chappy :) If only he has the mongrel in him Chappy does
 
Ellis by a whisker ahead of the other two. Real crystal ball gazing though.

What I think is significant is how critical these three players are to our future success. These three players, and maybe Dusty, will dictate how successful our next decade will be.

Huge potential on which we've never been better placed to deliver.
 
juss said:
My main criticism of Conca is his ability to use the footy. It's not great and I've seen him kick some absolute shockers.
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Imo that is more about decision making. He tried to chew off more than is possible but he is getting use to the speed of the game more and more and it was only a kick or 2 per game any way. I don't see it as a problem at all.
 
THE_GUN said:
I cant really put my finger on it but still believe that we are 1 Elite midfielder short of where we can say - We are there
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I agree with this not withstanding a new player already here that pops up to this level. The difference being that another a grader means a b grader goes out of the team. An example of this may mean king is replaced(retired say) but is replaced on a part time basis with a cotchin(upgrade from king) but this new player replaces him in the midfield so we don't have a net loss in the middle.
 

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If only martin had Ellis' work ethic, would be a scary sight to see, Ellis is definitely the better outside player, conca imo is the best of the three inside ( great agility/side steps, always seems to be amongst it when clearances need to be won), floss could be anything, to have the impact he did in his first year with his decision making and compsure was very impressive, after a few preseasons of building up his already solid frame and a move into the midfield I think he will just ping the other two
 
The great thing about these three and in fact a lot of our mids is that they're not locked into a position.

Vlastuin obviously followed the path this year of Ellis in 2012 and Conca in 2011 playing off half-back and I think he graduated so he'll be able to receive a place in the midfield for this year. To me he's more of a Hodge then anything. Excellent reader of the play, was ranked seventh at the club for intercept possessions (even though he missed 5 games) and then his composure was superb; when he was involved in a chain we scored 28% of the time which was the second-highest of any defender at the club (I'm going to assume Houli is first). He also went at 66% disposal efficiency under physical pressure which is the most of any player at Richmond who averaged at least 15 disposals, to underline this Cotchin went at 39% under physical pressure. He also was ranked elite by Champion Data for applying pressure- ranked 11th in pressure acts per game of any general defender to play at least 10 games. We've really landed a beauty in him and he's obviously a natural leader.

Ellis is a true outside player for the moment but obviously is working his guts out to build his inside game. However he does use his running capacity to full advantage by gaining space and burning off players which made him a great link-up/overlap player. Ranked second at the club for marks, third for uncontested marks and fourth for effective kicks after round 5. I think although he needs to improve his inside game for him to shake a tag, it could be best for him to remain as a wingman just because of the spread he provides us with. Against North we had no Houli and it was kinda even early on and then Ellis went down and our overlap run just got utterly shut-down with Hine dominating Lids, so he's super important structure wise.

Conca I think could easily be the best out of all three (but so could the other two, yes i'm a fence sitter. How did you know?) and there are some pretty interesting stats that suggest he's likely to breakout this season should he *touchwood* stay on the track for the whole year. He was the only midfielder at the club to rate above average for goals, score assists and score involvements. He also won 53% of his disposals in the forward half and when he was involved in a chain the Tigers scored 35% of the time; once again the highest at the club (minimum five games played). I think he's unfairly maligned for his kicking both by opposition fans and Richmond fans and his retention rate inside 50 was 16th in the AFL and second best at Richmond so I think that idea is plain false. His inside work is something we badly missed against Carlton, ranked 7th at the club for clearances in the Home and Away games but recorded the third-highest scoring percentage of the top 10 so big ticks there as well. You can see how he's slowly moved from a half-back role to his current role through his efficiency and CP% stats.
---------Eff%----CP%
2011----77.4----32.2
2012----74.5----35.5
2013----65.4----38.6

tl;dr- good players, much upside.
 
For me it's Vlaustin. Poise is seriously underrated in Aussie Rules and any sport for that matter and he showed it in spades. I will take poise over pace every day of the week. You cannot teach that. He's close to my favourite player already. If one or both of Ellis and Conca become better players then all the better because I know for a fact that Tigger will be a gun.

But as THE_GUN said, if guys like Helbig, McDonough etc come one, then we're really in business. I really like the looks of McDonough. I was really surprised they dropped him after his debut game last year. I thought he put in a really solid game and deserved another week despite it being close to finals. I'm sure they had their reasons. Do yourselves a favour and check out the video about him on the RFC website.
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/video/2014-01-08/mcdonoughs-plan-for-2014
 
Vlas looks the classy one.
Ellis looks solid.
Conca is the injury prone bugger at the moment.
There was that real solid young bloke that came in near the end. I liked the look of him:
 

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