Express IT Advertisements

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I know this could be on the media and entertainment board but it seems more of a general rant....

Anyway, who has seen these Express IT ads on late at night? They tell you how you can study a course for x amount of time, then land a job in the 'booming' IT industry earning *$89,000 a year, pfft yeah right!

Anyway the thing that gets me about these ads are the people standing there, they all look like the sort of people you see on Today Tonight on one of those doddy neighbors ads, and they all seem to be in need of serious dental work. Not one of the people on these ads look like they could land a job at your local Bunnings, let alone the 'booming' It industry.

 

[Smoooothy]

what they aren't telling you is the disparity in wages between IT plebs who do most of the work and IT management who make the decisions

a plebs wage would be around the 40-50k mark i'd imagine, maganement anywhere upto 250k (and then positions in between too)

i've worked in IT for 8 years, don't earn anywhere near 90k!!

ps - its time!!!

 

[Bosun]

It would depend on the training and course type, however I highly doubt you would complete an express IT course and walk into an 89k year job as maintenance/helpdesk type. For that sort of salary in IT, you would be a specialist consultant or systems engineer (security, identity management, architecture etc) or management and that doesnt come from a 6 week course (or whatever it is).

Ive been in IT since I graduated uni (around 6 years) and while my salary is around that mark it certainly wasnt when I first started more like 40k to 45k.

 

[Malibu#27]

I know this could be on the media and entertainment board but it seems more of a general rant....

Anyway, who has seen these Express IT ads on late at night? They tell you how you can study a course for x amount of time, then land a job in the 'booming' IT industry earning *$89,000 a year, pfft yeah right!

Anyway the thing that gets me about these ads are the people standing there, they all look like the sort of people you see on Today Tonight on one of those doddy neighbors ads, and they all seem to be in need of serious dental work. Not one of the people on these ads look like they could land a job at your local Bunnings, let alone the 'booming' It industry.

Think these companies are a joke and a fraud. You want to do IT - then go to UNI.

I agree with Bosun - if you go down the uni line then a salary around 80K - 90K is what I'd be expecting.



I dont know and IT development plebs on 40-50K after 5 - 6 years, in fact most graduate development roles would be above that figure these days. The 40K-50K roles after 5-6 years are most likely in desktop support (basically cranking the helpdesk wheel and following the dots) rather than in IT development.

 

[Smoooothy]

Think these companies are a joke and a fraud. You want to do IT - then go to UNI.

I agree with Bosun - if you go down the uni line then a salary around 80K - 90K is what I'd be expecting.



I dont know and IT development plebs on 40-50K after 5 - 6 years, in fact most graduate development roles would be above that figure these days. The 40K-50K roles after 5-6 years are most likely in desktop support (basically cranking the helpdesk wheel and following the dots) rather than in IT development.

yep precisely!

 

[Niximus]

Uni for IT?

If you're not capable by the time you're 15 give up.

 

[Pettas]

Uni for IT?

If you're not capable by the time you're 15 give up.

What?

 

[Niximus]

If you don't know stuff in high school, you're already behind.

 

[Tormented Tiger]

I thought IT stood for Intelligent Twit.

 

[quickstraw]

If you don't know stuff in high school, you're already behind.

Industry level IT is a little bit more than learning MS Orifice.

 

[Niximus]

Industry level IT is a little bit more than learning MS Orifice.

Oh really? Wow, thanks for that!

 

[FootyJunkie]

Oh really? Wow, thanks for that!

owl please

 

[Bosun]

If you don't know stuff in high school, you're already behind.

I did degree's in Business/Information Systems and most of the topics covered were completely foreign to me (though this was 9 odd years ago). Im not sure what they cover in IT now in schools but it was completely different back then.

Then again every valuable skill I have now was learnt on the job (consulting and implementation or system engineering) basically nothing from uni besides a few ground skills has helped in any way.

 

[Niximus]

I did degree's in Business/Information Systems and most of the topics covered were completely foreign to me (though this was 9 odd years ago). Im not sure what they cover in IT now in schools but it was completely different back then.

Then again every valuable skill I have now was learnt on the job (consulting and implementation or system engineering) basically nothing from uni besides a few ground skills has helped in any way.

Exactly, everyone I know who is successful in IT went straight into it out of school with an already very high level of competency and built on their skills and knowledge on the job.

Im not sure what they cover in IT now in schools but it was completely different back then.

If they are still learning something in high school IT* then they are also behind. (*From the class that is, they are obviously still gaining knowledge on their own.)

 

[Pettas]

Exactly, everyone I know who is successful in IT went straight into it out of school with an already very high level of competency and built on their skills and knowledge on the job.



If they are still learning something in high school IT* then they are also behind. (*From the class that is, they are obviously still gaining knowledge on their own.)

That path is possible however you have to muck around working on a helpdesk for the first part of your career, no-one is going to hire for example, an analyst, fresh out of high school with no degree.

I sort of understand where you are coming from but i feel what your saying applies more to the programming side of IT rather then some of the other areas.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I nearly did a Cisco networking Course by high school, too bad i got a serious addiction to Snes Roms

Probably should of done it, as its a 2000 dollar course and i paid just under 100 to do it

 

[Malibu#27]

Uni for IT?

If you're not capable by the time you're 15 give up.

We are not talking building basic web pages here.....

 

[Niximus]

We are not talking building basic web pages here.....

Neither am I

 

[quickstraw]

Exactly, everyone I know who is successful in IT went straight into it out of school with an already very high level of competency and built on their skills and knowledge on the job.

Clearly you don't know many people then.

 

[quickstraw]

I nearly did a Cisco networking Course by high school, too bad i got a serious addiction to Snes Roms

Probably should of done it, as its a 2000 dollar course and i paid just under 100 to do it

Good old Cisco brainwashing people when they are young. I've seen school tests sponsored and set by Cisco that are all about Cisco kit. Great marketing by Cisco, but the Govt shouldn't allow this to happen.

 

[Artie Bucco]

Exactly, everyone I know who is successful in IT went straight into it out of school with an already very high level of competency and built on their skills and knowledge on the job.



If they are still learning something in high school IT* then they are also behind. (*From the class that is, they are obviously still gaining knowledge on their own.)

You have no idea what you're talking about. I've been studying at RMIT for 4 years, I thought I knew quite a lot before I went to uni. I knew jack shit in reality.

If you're talking about being a general IT tech then sure, you probably don't need to go to uni or use your brain that much. Although if you're doing comp science or soft engineering there is NO way you could have a high degree of competency without doing tertiary study, unless you're one of those genius kids.

For starters a lot of algorithms and concepts require you to have a very apt understanding of yr 12 math methods.

Tell me if you've never done the relevant theory courses how would you go about setting up a major network? Or even if your website became so large you needed to move beyond 1 server and need to sync with a cluster of servers???

 

[Malibu#27]

Exactly, everyone I know who is successful in IT went straight into it out of school with an already very high level of competency and built on their skills and knowledge on the job.

Very high level by who's measure ? It takes years to gain a 'very' high level of competancy.
REFER TO Blue Boys COMMENTS ABOVE.
Its always scary to work with people that think they know more than they actually do.

If they are still learning something in high school IT* then they are also behind. (*From the class that is, they are obviously still gaining knowledge on their own.)

I dont know what world you are living in. I've been in the industry for 13 years and come across a lot of software engineers. While its not uncommon to have people who havent done a strict IT or computer science course at UNI, but have migrated across from other roles, I am yet to meet a developer who came straight out of highschool.

In fact I am yet to see someone coming straight out of high school even get to the interview stage.

(while there are always exceptions to the rules) Its actually scary to think this is possible - especially in my line of work. Anyone can cut code pretty quickly, but not meaningful code ... and many that go through UNI are still pretty green, so the likely hood of highschool kids walking in and picking it up is going to be pretty small.

Exactly what type of IT are you talking about ?

 

[Niximus]

Very high level by who's measure ? It takes years to gain a 'very' high level of competancy.
REFER TO Blue Boys COMMENTS ABOVE.
Its always scary to work with people that think they know more than they actually do.

I dont know what world you are living in. I've been in the industry for 13 years and come across a lot of software engineers. While its not uncommon to have people who havent done a strict IT or computer science course at UNI, but have migrated across from other roles, I am yet to meet a developer who came straight out of highschool.

I never said they go straight into the developer jobs. I said straight into the industry. As Bosun said, all his useful skills were gained on the job.

Bolded - That is what I am saying, you're agreeing that you don't need to study IT at uni. What you're seeing there is the old mindset that Uni = smarter. Think of how many people you know with Uni degrees who actually still work in that field, I bet it's very few.

Slowly we are moving across to the realisation that VET is a more valuable learning environment, employers are starting to get this.

In fact I am yet to see someone coming straight out of high school even get to the interview stage.

I wouldn't expect so if they were going straight for a job as a programmer, as with everything you still need to do your time at the bottom of the pile. You wouldn't see too many coming straight out of Uni and landing the roles either.

(while there are always exceptions to the rules) Its actually scary to think this is possible - especially in my line of work. Anyone can cut code pretty quickly, but not meaningful code ... and many that go through UNI are still pretty green, so the likely hood of highschool kids walking in and picking it up is going to be pretty small.

Exactly what type of IT are you talking about ?

Data security and encryption.

 

[Malibu#27]

Bolded - That is what I am saying, you're agreeing that you don't need to study IT at uni. What you're seeing there is the old mindset that Uni = smarter. Think of how many people you know with Uni degrees who actually still work in that field, I bet it's very few.

Uni taught me how to think through problems .... the actual skills can generally be learnt elsewhere, that I agree with - however high school did not teach me how to think.
As for your second point ... it varies - I dont know many people I went through uni with, doing computer science related courses - that are not still working in the same field.

I suspect we are talking about different parts of the industry - given you suggest people can move from high school into the industry and across from there

I wouldn't expect so if they were going straight for a job as a programmer, as with everything you still need to do your time at the bottom of the pile. You wouldn't see too many coming straight out of Uni and landing the roles either.

Disagree .... at least from personal experience programming is the bottom of the pile in terms of SW Engineering - of course test teams are another place starters can sometimes be put.

Dont know how much lower you are talking about, but I dont know any uni grads who have come in as coffee makers.

 

[Smoooothy]

Uni taught me how to think through problems .... the actual skills can generally be learnt elsewhere, that I agree with - however high school did not teach me how to think.
As for your second point ... it varies - I dont know many people I went through uni with, doing computer science related courses - that are not still working in the same field.

I suspect we are talking about different parts of the industry - given you suggest people can move from high school into the industry and across from there


Disagree .... at least from personal experience programming is the bottom of the pile in terms of SW Engineering - of course test teams are another place starters can sometimes be put.

Dont know how much lower you are talking about, but I dont know any uni grads who have come in as coffee makers.

spoken like a true engineer