Face Off: Bulldogs Versus Eagles

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks to the mods who allowed me to offer my 2 bob worth first, in what will hopefully be one of the games of the year. Last year’s match-up in Melbourne was to me the catalyst for the success we have enjoyed for nearly 12 months.

Obviously this time the game is in WA which makes things much tougher, but for the doggies, I think the principal remains the same in terms of us winning. And despite what some may say, I think we are a good shot at it.

I will start with what I think should be our changes to our last game side against Brisbane.

Hahn’s injury is a major blow, so with him I’d replace him with Baird. A tallish forward with good speed and great hands.

Giansiracusa will be back and for him I’d drop Missy Higgins. He has done absolutely nothing wrong, and was more than serviceable against the Lions, but Gia has to come back and Power needs a string of games, and for development it wont hurt Shaun who will be an absolute gun player.

I think Skipper has to go back to Werribee go gain some confidence after his foot injury, so big Will Minson is back after a great performance for the bees on Sunday.

And one which will get the urk of some posters, resting Bubba Smith for the sake of match-ups and giving Cam Wight a run. For those who track my thoughts (I know you are out there) I’ve been hard on Cam and love Smithy. But with Seaby, Stakey, Gardner, Cox and Lynch, I think we need a running tall to go with our usual suspects.


So with that said, how will the doggies go 9 and 4, and cement a top 4 position.

The key I think is to have enough tall backs to cover their height. But height ain’t everything, as out side has shown. Last year we killed them with Lindsay Gilbee in particular running a muck on taller players.

So with Hargrave and Harris as our 2 traditional backs, I’d have Morris and Wight down their with height and electric turn of speed, as those 2 can really run with McMahon and Gilbee running off the flanks and rebounding.

Crucial is enough height down back so that Chris Grant does not have to go back. Up forward the past 18 months he has been vital and his bag against the Lions highlights the need not to drop him back – Which is why I like Wight for this game.

Also I think we should drop a winger back. An attacking wing player that will run with the ball and re-bound assisting Gilbee and McMahon. Perhaps Monty who can also play tall, I’d like to see Griffen used forward of the play and given attacking orders.

So up forward we’d have Chris, Baird, Johno, Robbo, Gia and I’d like us to rest our ruckman in the forward pocket if fitness prevails. Street has shown dropping forward he can be a handful and Minson adds brute strength and a big body. Resting the ruckman down their also means the WCE have to find a few talls to drop back also. It allows Eade to be more flexible with our set-ups.

The midfield match-ups will be a football lovers paradise. Kerr, Judd, Cousins, Embley vs West, Cooney, Cross and the newly bigger reputationed Matthew Boyd!

The midfield battle will be brilliant and hopefully Cross and Boydy can shut down their men and our non-stop running game implemented to perfection at Subi.

Our game 2 weeks ago was great. Our re-bounding from behinds was spectacular and the forwards worked hard and defenders earned their keep. If Streety and Will can match Cox’s efforts and give first possession to West, Coon, Gia and co and our forwards present well,

Then I have absolutely no doubt we can win. I believe we have matured to a point that we can execute our game plan anywhere at anytime and I don’t see this game as an exception.

Bulldogs by 26 points in one of the best (and attacking) games of the year.

Go Dogs!

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

First of all, let me say thank Borgsta for inviting me to participate in this thread.


Where West Coast will win:

West Coast has not lost to a Victorian team at Subiaco since rd19, 2002, where the demons won by 6pts. The closest anyone has come since was a draw by the bulldogs in 2003, with West Coast needing a goal after the siren from Ashley Sampi to tie the scores.

West Coast plays Subiaco really well, taking advantage of the long ground and carrying the ball a lot. With the level of depth in the Eagles midfield, it means they often run their opponents off their legs and capitalise on superior fitness and midfield class by pulling away in the 2nd half. This has been particularly evident when you consider how often it has taken a final qtr blitz to beat opposition teams.

West Coast holds another advantage over the bulldogs in its player quality. Its not just about the depth in the eagles squad, it’s the amount of match winners they have on their list. Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Fletcher, Embley, Hunter, Cox and Chick have all at some stage this season won the eagles a game almost off their own boot. The bulldogs have lots of quality youngsters, but I am unsure if they have the experience to match it with so many genuine guns.

Defensively the eagles are very solid. Glass at fullback, Nicoski and Wirrpanda as our rebounding back pockets, Graham/Hunter at CHB, and a host of others rotating through the backline including Chick, Stenglein and Selwood.

Up forward there have in the past been question marks, but in 2006 Staker and Lynch have been very good for us. Still lacking real potency, and the lack of a small forward since the retirement of Phil Matera has left our forward line very one dimensional. Often need someone like Hunter, Embley or one of the midfielders to be moved up forward to help break the game open. If the Bulldogs can hold us up at half forward, and prevent the eagles midfield from helping out our forwards, they will be a real chance at stealing this match.


I think the bulldogs will stay with the eagles for most of the match, but the quality of the eagles will be the overwhelming factor in the end.

Eagles by 4 goals

P.S. Judd will be back for this game, after a 4 week lay off. After such a long break, expect him to run very hard all day.

 

[Borgsta]

First off thanks to both of you guys for starting this without me. I had to stay back at work today. Some great write ups there.

Where West Coast will win:

West Coast has not lost to a Victorian team at Subiaco since rd19, 2002, where the demons won by 6pts. The closest anyone has come since was a draw by the bulldogs in 2003, with West Coast needing a goal after the siren from Ashley Sampi to tie the scores.

Thats a pretty scary stat! I didnt realise how long it had been since that draw.

West Coast plays Subiaco really well, taking advantage of the long ground and carrying the ball a lot. With the level of depth in the Eagles midfield, it means they often run their opponents off their legs and capitalise on superior fitness and midfield class by pulling away in the 2nd half. This has been particularly evident when you consider how often it has taken a final qtr blitz to beat opposition teams.

Even on a normal week I would expect the Dogs to be able to keep up with the Eagles fitness wise. After the week break Id be pretty disappointed if we didnt. Im sure our players (and WC's) were extremely happy to reach the break and they will both be eager to start off with a win.

Im tipping the Eagles in this one, but I am quite confident that we can get a result.

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

Few points to make.

West Coast's biggest advantage of all is, obviously, the venue. They play it better then any other side in the comp, etc etc.

West Coast's midfield should have the edge with Judd returning to the side.

That's on paper, though.

IF the Bulldogs can at very least break even around the stoppages and the midfield in general, then we'll come close to walking away with four points. I think our backline is able to contain their forward line and hurt it on the rebound. Gilbee, McMahon & Griffen have to be on their bikes. If they're on their game and Harris, Morris and Hargrave are keeping close check of their opponents, we stand a very, very good chance.

I think our forward line should be able to kick a winning score. Despite WC having a reasnoable backline, Robbins and Johnson in particular have the ability to exploit them. Both capable of kicking 5+ each which is probably something we may need.

It's a real shame Hahn and Murphy aren't in the forward structure because then I think we could really blow them to pieces, however, with Giansiracusa hopefully coming back it gives us some class back along half forward and in the midfield which should help a lot. Minson will be back - and he brings a lot to a side crippled by injuries. Wouldn't mind sticking him in the square for a quarter either.

However, all this depends on the pressure our midfield puts on theirs. Also, our midfield will have to push down and help out the backs to run the ball down the corridor in waves. If we can execute this, our forward line should be able to muster up a victory.

Interesting game. Sucks it's not on TV.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Judd to return for the eagles, but there are rumours Gardiner may be brought in for Seaby. Woosha isn't one to make massive changes, but there are question marks over the form of a number of eagles players. Rowan Jones, Shannon Hurn, Beau Waters and Mark Seaby are all in ordinary form and could well be dropped.

Unfortunately for the bulldogs, there are plenty of replacements waiting for their chance in the WAFL. Gardiner, McDougall and Hansen are 3 talls fighting to get back into the squad, while Sam Butler, Brett Jones, Ashley Sampi and Steven Armstrong regularly dominate around the ground.

Eagles have plenty of depth, but seem to be struggling for form. If the bulldogs show up and run real hard from the start, they're a real chance. But I wouldn't be putting my money on them.

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

Just to add:

Thought about it a bit, and I think the inclusion of Cameron Wight could be handy if used correctly.

Wight's, what? Near 200cm? Is very mobile and spoils well. Still skinny, but WC don't have big bodied talls with Lynch being the exception.

Wight to play on Staker could be an option, and perhaps even release Hargrave to the wing or the half forward line. That way, Hargrave can become more of an attacking player. Something of an Embley mould. Could be pretty effective.

If that's not working to plan, perhaps throw Wight on a wing and let him run all over the ground. His size & mobility could be handy around the ground.

At the same time, it's good development for him. Nothing to lose, might as well give it a try. What do you all think?

 

[Lynch drops a mark]

i think for the eagles

In

Brett Jones, Chris Judd, Matt Rosa and possible gardiner

out

Rowan Jones, Mark Seaby, one of Priddis/Hurn or maybe both depending on gardiner

As sure as death and taxes, Chris grant is going to kick a bag on Glass. He might be getting on but he is still a dead set champion and along with Fev always manages to towel up poor Glassy.

Robbins and Johnson are both super players for their size and will need quality defenders to cover them.

the coon dog, west, danny cross ect are all great around the packs so Judd and kerr will need to be firing if they are going to have an influence

I think what happened last year at the G was that WC were simply not prepared to run with the dogs, they were already in the mindset of conserving the body for the finals and didnt want to put the hard yards in

this should be a very good match but if west coast are switched on then I will have them by 6 goals

Bulldogs have just been so unlucky with injury this year but I am still so very impressed with them and what they have still been able to achieve, they remind me alot of WC in 03/04

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

IN: Judd, Butler, Rosa
Out: Hurn, Priddis, Seaby

If Minson plays, which seems very likely, then Seaby stays in and Rosa stays out.

IMO that's what should happen.

 

[.M a t t.]

For the dogs i wanna see
In's: Minson, Gia, Baird
Out's: Skipper, Power(dud), Hahn

 

[SCRAY72]

Eagles by 23 points in a shoot out with hopefully no more long term injuries for the Dogs.

 

[Biggie]

Thanks Borgsta for letting us participate.

Should be a cracker, with the Bulldogs being one side that does have the run to match West Coast. The spacious Subiaco oval will provide ample space for both teams strength, running.

I will never forget that draw at Subiaco 2 maybe 3 seasons ago, what a game that was!!! Brad Johnson is an absolute gun and he always troubles the Eagles so Im sure he will be anticipating this clash.

Home ground advantage will probably be the deciding factor but with Juddy back in the side Im hoping that the Eagles finally get that much needed % boost.

But I'm sure that it will be a close match with West Coast falling over the line again

West Coast by 18

Cheers

 

[Go_Dogs]

In - Minson, Giansiracusa
Out - Hahn, Power

Minson and Street to ruck, leave Skipper in the forward line with Grant...

FF: Johnson, Grant, Robbins
HF: Giansiracusa, Skipper, Boyd
C: Eagle, West, Ray
HB: Gilbee, Hargrave, Griffen
B. Morris, Harris, McMahon

f: Street, Cross, Cooney

B. Minson, Higgins, Smith, Monty

Helps the matchups a bit, a bit more height. Good solid bench too, with a bit of run....i dont know, going to be interesting game for sure.

Judd back really hurts us, i'd like to see Cross have first shot at him, but that failing, maybe try Morris or Monty on him, someone who'll apply body pressure. WE will have to work hard to stop him getting the ball with space infront of him, thats for sure.

As far as goal scoring options, with Hahn out I still feel we have more scoreboard potential than the Eagles. We have to use the ball well, and make the most of our opportunities. Playing 2 talls forward will help us crumb the ball, and hopefully Grant or Skipper can stand up and kick a small bag. The Eagles midfield is so dangerous though, with so many options, we really have to work hard all game.

 

[Dog Town]

We can win this one I reckon although it is a massive ask it is a good chance to knock off a genuine contender. We are probably the only team that can claim to be equally as well suited to playing on Subi as the eagles.The big wide open spaces should suit us and allow us to score plenty of goals on the spread.The game should be a shoot out which means it will probably come down to who wins the stoppages and disputed balls.Both teams will hurt any side if they get enough of the ball.

Where do you start with a midfield like the eagles? Judd coming off a 4 week break is interesting.Even though he will be a bit testy with it and feel his way into the game I think he is still the main guy to try and limit.The eagles have not been as impressive without him and have had to pull a couple of wins out of the fire and even lost to Port last week.Be interesting to see which way Eade goes.Might even play Mcmahon,Johnson or Eagle head to head with him.Morris and Boyd might be a chance for a hard tag.

 

[Scotland]

For mine one of the keys to this game will be how many behinds are scored by West Coast. Probably an obscure statement on its own but the Bulldogs are a hard running side who have adapted beautifully to the changes to the kick-in rule and are probably the best in the business at quickly turning defence into attack. West Coast, however, are notoriously lax when it comes to defending kick-ins. Our zonal defensive structure almost always allows the side kicking in clean first possession, and once that has occurred if that side is prepared to work hard to make space we are very slow to chase and man up. Quick and precise possession going into the likes of Johnson and Robbins plays to the strengths of the Dogs. If we are not up to the task of manning up and being accountable to the run of the Dogs, we will lose this game.

In the centre it should be a great battle. Two exciting midfields, ours more established and recognised, yours younger and less experienced, but talented nonetheless. Judd coming back is a massive bonus for us, while the loss of Hahn will hurt the Dogs. Cox will have Street covered for work around the ground, but Street's tap work of late has been very impressive and should will give Cox a run for his money in the centre bounces. I'm hoping that both sides focus on playing their own attacking game and go for broke to get the game played on their terms. Should be a good game, hoping for an Eagles win (natrually). Will tip us to win by around 3 goals, but would not be surprised if the Dogs get up. Fingers crossed for 44 fit players at the final siren.

 

[Go_Dogs]

Like your summary Scotland.

DT - I feel a player like McMahon, who is probably one of the better player on our list to match Judd for pace, doesn't have the explosive core strength that Judd had, and probably isn't as good overhead either.

It really is going to be a tough matchup. I'd almost be tempted - and this has just come to me - to throw Griffen onto Judd. Give him a tagging role, release him into the midfield, and let him follow Judd around, learn how Judd wins the ball....and also, try to stop him. Griff is a good size to matchup on Judd, and does have the same explosive speed - although not as developed.

 

[SCRAY72]

Although Judd is a superstar, lets not get too Judd-conscious, I know Eade won't because West Coast have got plenty of others that can hurt you, especially at the stoppages. Kerr,Embley,Cousins to name a few.

Worsfold is a smart cookie and would be fully aware of which Dogs can do damage.

One thing the Dogs might have over the Eagles is that they get their goals from a greater spread of players and are probably less predictable.

 

[starz]

Although Judd is a superstar, lets not get too Judd-conscious, I know Eade won't because West Coast have got plenty of others that can hurt you, especially at the stoppages. Kerr,Embley,Cousins to name a few.

Worsfold is a smart cookie and would be fully aware of which Dogs can do damage.

One thing the Dogs might have over the Eagles is that they get their goals from a greater spread of players and are probably less predictable.

West Coast have a pretty good spread of goalkickers too but i guess if you're winning the midfield goals come from everywhere.

 

[carlyp]

Well I'm looking forward to this game immensley.

Theres something about West Coast Eagles versus The Bullies that always attracts excitement. Since the all in brawl when Suma got knocked out by Danny Southern there has been a spate on incidents. Benny Cousins and Little Libber, Gardi and Kretiuk (forgive me if Im wrong guys), Sampi has done it to you boys twice (kicking goals after the siren type of thing).

All in all from an Eagles point of view, the break couldnt have come at a better time for us. The boys were exhausted against Port and it showed big time. I reckon the week off will have done them the world of good. The game plan for the Eagles has to be run run run as fast as you can you cant catch me Im the Eagles man!

What really has to happen is we have to get a big start and quieten the bullies team down. If there is any side that has the same sort of resiliance as the Eagles have its the bullies and there also one team that can match us with run and speed through the midfield. We will need to run hard from go to woah and use our knowledge of the ground alot better than the bullies.

I would also like to see Woosh exploit a percieved lack of height with the bullies. Maybe stretch them for height up forward would be a good idea and Im sure Woosh will be thinking the same thing with a few of our big tall boys in the WAFL coming into some nice form over the past month.

I think the Eagles will win, we are very very good at home after all. Eagles by 18 points in a close one.

 

[Borgsta]

Well I'm looking forward to this game immensley.

Theres something about West Coast Eagles versus The Bullies that always attracts excitement. Since the all in brawl when Suma got knocked out by Danny Southern there has been a spate on incidents. Benny Cousins and Little Libber, Gardi and Kretiuk (forgive me if Im wrong guys), Sampi has done it to you boys twice (kicking goals after the siren type of thing).

Yep same here Carly. The games are always bloody exciting! Fights, great football on display. Cant go wrong really.

 

[Rocco Jones]

I would also like to see Woosh exploit a percieved lack of height with the bullies. Maybe stretch them for height up forward would be a good idea and Im sure Woosh will be thinking the same thing with a few of our big tall boys in the WAFL coming into some nice form over the past month.

Like last time we played?

I'm pretty excited by the news from the West about the Eagles stacking up their forward line with talls. Definitely think we can get a potential miss match or two out of it again if they go as top heavy as they did last time. Looks like they might go in with 4 tall forwards. Lynch does the decoy role a bit, hopefully we don't get sucked in and have Harris taken away from the action. I hope we bring in Wight, perfect game for him to play. Would use him on someone like Staker or Hansen/McDougall (if they play), I don't think they will hurt him too much physically and Cam definitely offers a lot in rebound sense for a guy that's 200cm. While Subi's size offers a side like us plenty of rebound, it also can help a big side isolate one on ones so I do believe we need the extra tall down back. Harris, Hargrave, Wight and Morris (if he plays there) are all capable at offering rebound). Hopefully a guy like Gilbee can rip it up a bit.

Woosha seems funny with his forward line changes. When he makes a change, sure is it a big one. Seems to go little league style sometimes with the backs forward swap. Hunter, Wirrpanda and Chick forward has worked a couple of times this season when the Eagles have been struggling (Kangaroos, Essendon, Geelong I think). Hunter is obviously regularly used at both ends, really a dangerous player to us.

Judd match up is always going to be huge. I'm not a fan of using a hard tag in such a ball winning area so my choice is Jordy. Really think Jordy can these kinds of roles while doing a bit going the other way. Means that if Judd is having a good day it's not a total loss. Roles of Morris and Boyd will be interesting, perhaps run withs Cousins. Would like Morris to play back and use pace on the rebound. Eagleton loves Subi space, need one of his damaging displays. Cox's injury will minimise his advantage over Street some what. Stoppages obviously important key to the game.

Grant killed Glass last time and hopefully offers us a big target again. Match up on Johnson regularly provides teams with nightmares. Robbo is a bit hit and miss at times, another guy we need to be up. I think we have a few targets but the main problem is getting it to function. Wouldn't mind Gian coming back via the forward line in a small forward role as I think he can offer us something different. It sounds strange, despite being having a very small forwardline most of our forwards are pure leaders. Plenty of times the ball hits the deck with none of our players in sight.

If we are going to beat them rebound will be a massive part of it again. It's a big ground and we should go out there basically having a bit of fun. At 8-4 with 2 of the "easier" games coming up a win here would be a bonus. Really makes for an entertaining game.

 

[Philhawk]

Bearer of bad news ... He's back!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news guys, but in case you didn't know already, Judd is back for the Bulldogs match ...

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,19617075-23210,00.html

I really hope you guys can roll over West Coast on Sunday and really give the West Coast midfield a good fight.

 

[OldSchool]

Re: Bearer of bad news ... He's back!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news guys, but in case you didn't know already, Judd is back for the Bulldogs match ...

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,19617075-23210,00.html

I really hope you guys can roll over West Coast on Sunday and really give the West Coast midfield a good fight.

Philhawk, thanks for the update. I have merged this with the face off thread as it is a good discussion point.

 

[Mofra]

Might be a controversial statement, but this game will not be won in the midfield for the dogs.

For all the hype about our midfield, we are actually the worst in the competition for clearances. We wont be competing on equal terms with West Coast on that score - what we need to do is apply enough defensive pressure on their midfield so their clearances are not clean posession, but quick kicks forward.

We won last year because our HB line was on top. Players like McMahon & Griffen provide most of our run - more attacking run than our midfield. We need to hope that Woosha will try and stretch us for height, and provide one short on tall match up (ie hope we get a Gilbee free on the re-bound).

We may need to start our bigger-bodied midfielders in the centre (Boyd should be in the first rotation). This is not so much to compete directly with an opponent, but to stop the West Coast midfield from blocking their opponents to clear a path for Judd.

 

[Scotland]

The talls vs smalls arguement will to a large degree be settled by how things pan out in the midfield. If we get a run-on and give our forwards good service we have a definite advantage through our forwards having more height and strength than the Dogs backline. If this occurs it may force Eade to send Grant back into defence, which will be an advantage to us as it weakens their forward line. While Lynch is no Judd in the agility stakes, he is carved out of stone and demands the strongest defender, in this case Harris. If we can isolate contests between the two, it should be a good battle and will assist in lowering the effectiveness of Harris' rebound from defence. If a lump of raw meat is thrown out to them before bouncedown, whoever gets it should take the points for the matchup. Staker is deceptively tall, super quick and has strong hands. I don't know who will take him from the Dogs, but he should have an advantage in height and pace, which we should look to exploit.

Should the Dogs opt to play a loose man (or men) in defence Worsfold's propensity is to match the number of defenders with forwards, which while eliminating the free player(s), leaves our forward line crowded. If we bomb the ball into a crowded forward line and give the Dogs a chance to get numbers around the contests it will play into their hands and means we will often see forward entrys sent straight back out of our 50 with interest. Patience in the instance of trying to enter a crowded forward 50 and honouring the leads of our forwards will give us the best chance of putting our height and weight advantage to good use.

Down the other end, the biggest threat is posed by the Dogs small forwards. Grant can be dangerous and has kicked bags against us in the past, so Glass will have to be on his game, with Hunter and Graham also options if Grant is on a roll. I'm not too concerned about Skipper or Minson, as both don't look near full fitness. Having said that if either or both play goals will probably rain in and I'll have to eat my words. The forward mosquito brigade are quick and skillful, and will perform better with space and good service. Johnson isolated one-one-one with any of our defenders and given space should make any West Coast fans nervous. My preferred matchup would be Stenglein, Nicoski or perhaps Hunter. If the Dogs are getting a lot of ball into their 50, we will need to step up the pressure on the players delivering the ball, and need to get Wirrpanda into the game. Playing him as a loose man without an opponent, rather than have him zoning off a direct opponent as per usual could be an option. Chick is a good defensive option for this game, as may be Selwood, but without Sampi and Matera we are short on good crumbing forwards, so we'll need Jones, Kerr, Cousins or perhaps Hurn to step up when forward if Chick and or Selwood are down back.

This game would be a 'blockbuster' if one side wore black and white...

 

[Rocco Jones]

While Lynch is no Judd in the agility stakes, he is carved out of stone and demands the strongest defender, in this case Harris. If we can isolate contests between the two, it should be a good battle and will assist in lowering the effectiveness of Harris' rebound from defence.

Seems like you guys have used Lynch as a decoy at times, getting the oppositions gun defender out of the play. If they are isolated I hope Harris doesn't resort to guerilla tactics. He often gives away needless free kicks when up against bigger guys like Neitz, Gehrig and Hall, almost as if he wants to prove how tough he is. While Harris is a tough bastard, he is also extremely athletic and needs to use this advantage when up against a guy like Lynch.