Fallout: 2022

[Dylan82]

It is a given that it will take a season or three- thats how the draft and salary cap is set up. The club looks to be doing it well, short cuts dont work.

The concern is that arguably 10 of the best 12 players at the club are aged 28 and above, whilst under the age of 25 just three players have featured in 50+ games for the club (Allen, Petruccelle and Waterman).

The lack of progress from the club's youth development over several years has left a massive hole in the list that will delay any return to success.

Even if everything goes right (and to be honest the club is struggling with getting the basics together at the moment), it will take 3-4 draftees per year over 3-4 years just to facilitate replacement and then another 3-4 years of development on top of that before all the potential can be realised.


With the current lack of accountability on display from the club, the current situation could easily devolve into a rebuild that takes the better part of a decade.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

I don't think it will take a very long time before we make the finals again, but it will certainly take a longer period of time for us to become a finals threat again.
Making it back to the finals quickly and finishing about 7-8th each season would stunt our rebuild since we'll only be getting picks in the early teens and we're not smart enough to turn them into good players.

 

[Grahame]

It is a given that it will take a season or three- thats how the draft and salary cap is set up. The club looks to be doing it well, short cuts dont work.

Sorry but which bits are they doing well?

 

[Grahame]

I don't think it will take a very long time before we make the finals again, but it will certainly take a longer period of time for us to become a finals threat again.
Making it back to the finals quickly and finishing about 7-8th each season would stunt our rebuild since we'll only be getting picks in the early teens and we're not smart enough to turn them into good players.

Agree on the difference between making the eight and being a threat.

Even if we have a great run with injuries I can’t see us doing better than say 10th next year. I think it will be absolute minimum five years till we threaten.

 

[Cuzz09]

I can't see how we will be anything but bottom 4 next year TBH

Unless all our u22s flick a switch and become awesome

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ziad]

Sorry but which bits are they doing well?

Recent drafting, emerging game play with an open emphasis on pressure, completely revised narative, stated need to go to the draft to get quality, acceptance etc - you kind of have to look but its there

 

[ziad]

I can't see how we will be anything but bottom 4 next year TBH

Unless all our u22s flick a switch and become awesome

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Thats in itself isnt a concern as we rebuild and not contend.

 

[Goroyals22]

Recent drafting, emerging game play with an open emphasis on pressure, completely revised narative, stated need to go to the draft to get quality, acceptance etc - you kind of have to look but its there

Revised narrative??? Like we are going to the draft but keeping all the old age pensioners on the list??? The we know where our list is at but keeping the old age pensioners on the list???
The we know we need to get young blokes into the team but keeping all the pensioners on the list knowing it will be them if fit fronting up to play round one.

 

[VicBased]

Revised narrative??? Like we are going to the draft but keeping all the old age pensioners on the list??? The we know where our list is at but keeping the old age pensioners on the list???
The we know we need to get young blokes into the team but keeping all the pensioners on the list knowing it will be them if fit fronting up to play round one.

So what do you propose?
1) Shall we move on all the older players and be left with nothing to field a team with?
2) Send said "New young players" out to get their arses kicked and breaking their spirit?
3) Whinge about not winning any games with all the young kids and blaming Simmo once again?
How about we wait and see how 2023 pans out and, chin up, if we fail next year it will give you lots more to complain about.

 

[Goroyals22]

So what do you propose?
1) Shall we move on all the older players and be left with nothing to field a team with?
2) Send said "New young players" out to get their arses kicked and breaking their spirit?
3) Whinge about not winning any games with all the young kids and blaming Simmo once again?
How about we wait and see how 2023 pans out and, chin up, if we fail next year it will give you lots more to complain about.

Do you mean the same young blokes who get their ass handed to them weekly in the wafl? Thats good for their spirit to..

People wont whinge about losing games if the club comes out and says this is what we are going to do and then sticks to it or at least looks to be doing so….
By saying we have a list in transition then doing the opposite by holding onto all the cooked blokes and no doubt seeing them all in round 1 means less confidence in those running the joint…

3 of shuey, gaff, redden, hurn or natanui should have been told to go…. Theres still kelly, cripps, darling, mcgovern, barass guys can learn off. Plenty of experience

 

[Forward Press]

I don't think it will take a very long time before we make the finals again, but it will certainly take a longer period of time for us to become a finals threat again.
Making it back to the finals quickly and finishing about 7-8th each season would stunt our rebuild since we'll only be getting picks in the early teens and we're not smart enough to turn them into good players.

We finished in the bottom reaches of the eight, losing all finals in week one from 2002 to 2004.

We also finished in the bottom reaches of the eight in 2016 and 2017 and were a whisker away from also losing both in week one.

The idea that you must be a serious finals-winning contender for a couple of years before you can win a flag isn't borne out by our premiership history this century.

Do you mean the same young blokes who get their ass handed to them weekly in the wafl? Thats good for their spirit to..

People wont whinge about losing games if the club comes out and says this is what we are going to do and then sticks to it or at least looks to be doing so….
By saying we have a list in transition then doing the opposite by holding onto all the cooked blokes and no doubt seeing them all in round 1 means less confidence in those running the joint…

3 of shuey, gaff, redden, hurn or natanui should have been told to go…. Theres still kelly, cripps, darling, mcgovern, barass guys can learn off. Plenty of experience

Thought the experience of Melbourne in the Bailey/Neeld years would have provided a stern warning to those who think rebuilding involves turfing most of the senior players, offering anyone else up for trade, and accumulating loads of top draft picks...

 

[Free Agent]

Credits in the bank baby

The band is getting back together

Top 2 you wait and see

Muppets

Could you imagine if they all came back super fit and some miracle we made next year's Granny.

We all would be saying thank f*CK for those credits. Those sweet sweet credits.

Just a weird day dream I'm having right now.

 

[Forward Press]

Could you imagine if they all came back super fit and some miracle we made next year's Granny.

We all would be saying thank f*CK for those credits. Those sweet sweet credits.

Just a weird day dream I'm having right now.

Don't even need to imagine, we made a GF in 2015 with a lot of the crew that won a wooden spoon in 2010.

Not saying it will happen here but in the modern AFL you only need to stumble upon an effective game plan with some fringe players improving to another level and a bit of luck with injuries, and then suddenly you're a flag contender and your coach is hailed as a genius.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Sorry but which bits are they doing well?

Our strength and conditioning department getting a 4th chance to get it right .

 

[shooshka]

Do you mean the same young blokes who get their ass handed to them weekly in the wafl? Thats good for their spirit to..

People wont whinge about losing games if the club comes out and says this is what we are going to do and then sticks to it or at least looks to be doing so….
By saying we have a list in transition then doing the opposite by holding onto all the cooked blokes and no doubt seeing them all in round 1 means less confidence in those running the joint…

3 of shuey, gaff, redden, hurn or natanui should have been told to go…. Theres still kelly, cripps, darling, mcgovern, barass guys can learn off. Plenty of experience

I think he means the young guys we have or are bringing in now.

Hough, Bazzo, Culley

Chesser and J Williams hopefully

Picks 2, 20 & 26 (maybe 27)

Plus we will no doubt try to get 3 picks in the top 30 next year.

That should at worst make up a 3rd of our side going forward. Add some inbound trades, plus guys who aren't that old (Barrass, Allen, Sheed, Duggan, Cole) - we will look a lot younger in 2024 with a good balance of some experience left.

Gaff is contracted, for a lot, so would have to request a trade to go. Redden and Hurn just finished top 5 or 6 in the B&F. So basically get rid of Shuey and Nic? I would have preferred to have 1 more 'oldie' retire, but our list turnover will be consistent at around 8-9 players in the 2022, 2023 and 2024 off seasons.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Grahame]

Recent drafting, emerging game play with an open emphasis on pressure, completely revised narative, stated need to go to the draft to get quality, acceptance etc - you kind of have to look but its there

Sorry but I don't see much of substance above. I simply don't accept we've done much right - or more accurately have shown a willingness to 'fess up – head in sand stuff. And especially no admission or discussion or remedial action about our (probably) record level of injuries.

As to the discussion about kids v oldies, main problems are
1. the in-betweeners (Waterman, Langdon, Witherden, Petro, Nelson, Rotham, SPS etc) who have mostly shown SFA and who've stopped the next tier getting games ... so select them only when there's not a kid to fill a position (and delist or trade them wherever possible); and
2. we can't play all the oldies this year every week - we need to prioritise the kids even it means losses.

I want actions designed to get us to the top four not just finish 7th-12th for years (which might be good for egos or win/loss ratios but not for PFs).

 

[Grahame]

Could you imagine if they all came back super fit and some miracle we made next year's Granny.

We all would be saying thank f*CK for those credits. Those sweet sweet credits.

Just a weird day dream I'm having right now.

Think you needed to have the 'if' underlined, italicised, bold and in caps.

 

[Forward Press]

Sorry but I don't see much of substance above. I simply don't accept we've done much right - or more accurately have shown a willingness to 'fess up – head in sand stuff. And especially no admission or discussion or remedial action about our (probably) record level of injuries.

As to the discussion about kids v oldies, main problems are
1. the in-betweeners (Waterman, Langdon, Witherden, Petro, Nelson, Rotham, SPS etc) who have mostly shown SFA and who've stopped the next tier getting games ... so select them only when there's not a kid to fill a position (and delist or trade them wherever possible); and
2. we can't play all the oldies this year every week - we need to prioritise the kids even it means losses.

I want actions designed to get us to the top four not just finish 7th-12th for years (which might be good for egos or win/loss ratios but not for PFs).

We finished in the bottom reaches of the eight, losing all finals in week one from 2002 to 2004.

We also finished in the bottom reaches of the eight in 2016 and 2017 and were a whisker away from also losing both in week one.

The idea that you must be a serious finals-winning contender for a couple of years before you can win a flag isn't borne out by our premiership history this century.

 

[VicBased]

I think he means the young guys we have or are bringing in now.

Hough, Bazzo, Culley

Chesser and J Williams hopefully

Picks 2, 20 & 26 (maybe 27)

Plus we will no doubt try to get 3 picks in the top 30 next year.

That should at worst make up a 3rd of our side going forward. Add some inbound trades, plus guys who aren't that old (Barrass, Allen, Sheed, Duggan, Cole) - we will look a lot younger in 2024 with a good balance of some experience left.

Gaff is contracted, for a lot, so would have to request a trade to go. Redden and Hurn just finished top 5 or 6 in the B&F. So basically get rid of Shuey and Nic? I would have preferred to have 1 more 'oldie' retire, but our list turnover will be consistent at around 8-9 players in the 2022, 2023 and 2024 off seasons.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Exactly, at the moment we need our older players to help out the younger players.
Looking after them on the field will be crucial for their development

 

[Marlin01]

I still think Waterman and Petruccelle have lot to offer.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

I still think Waterman and Petruccelle have lot to offer.

Are you talking about the end of season boys trip ?

 

[Goroyals22]

I still think Waterman and Petruccelle have lot to offer.

Society? Because footballers they aren’t

 

[Grahame]

We finished in the bottom reaches of the eight, losing all finals in week one from 2002 to 2004.

We also finished in the bottom reaches of the eight in 2016 and 2017 and were a whisker away from also losing both in week one.

The idea that you must be a serious finals-winning contender for a couple of years before you can win a flag isn't borne out by our premiership history this century.

Just for the record.

In 2001 we finished 14th. Then five years before a flag (8th, 7th, 7th, 2nd, 1st and flag).

In 2013 we finished 13th. Then five years before a flag (9th, 2nd, 6th, 8th, 2nd and flag).

My big worry is that we'll sit mid table (12th-7th) for longer than necessary if we just skate along with 'credits in the bank' – and I'm actually aiming that more at the mid-tier list cloggers as most of the older 'credits' (aka mentors) will retire soon enough. (Not that I want them all playing every week - still the way the S&C work that's unlikely anyway.) The mid-tier list cloggers add SFA now and none have consistently shown they're capable of contributing much to any future success.

But yes once we consistently finish 8th-5th then we're probably heading into the window.

 

[Lazzas]

Society? Because footballers they aren’t

Waterman is a good player, as a third tall he bobs up and kicks goals. Give it a rest, any forward will struggle with the currant lack of supply.

 

[Forward Press]

Society? Because footballers they aren’t

They are handy depth at worst and every club needs their depth because it is not possible for the first 22 to make it through a whole year. If another club comes in for them, fine, let them go, but they're not exactly attracting many suitors are they?

Just for the record.

In 2001 we finished 14th. Then five years before a flag (8th, 7th, 7th, 2nd, 1st and flag).

In 2013 we finished 13th. Then five years before a flag (9th, 2nd, 6th, 8th, 2nd and flag).

My big worry is that we'll sit mid table (12th-7th) for longer than necessary if we just skate along with 'credits in the bank' – and I'm actually aiming that more at the mid-tier list cloggers as most of the older 'credits' (aka mentors) will retire soon enough. (Not that I want them all playing every week - still the way the S&C work that's unlikely anyway.) The mid-tier list cloggers add SFA now and none have consistently shown they're capable of contributing much to any future success.

But yes once we consistently finish 8th-5th then we're probably heading into the window.

You're proving my point and disproving yours.

I want actions designed to get us to the top four not just finish 7th-12th for years (which might be good for egos or win/loss ratios but not for PFs).

We had plenty of mid-tier list cloggers in our premiership years, and the years before when we were 'finishing 7th to 12th for years'. People harping on the mantra about 'da yoof' and 'play the kids ffs' have NFI about AFL, sorry not sorry.

I honestly don't understand this obsession with clearing the decks of players like Waterman and Petrucelle and throwing some 18 year old kid in their place instead.