Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[CM86]

This is what a feminist looks like!

 

[Maggie5]

This is what a feminist looks like!

Given the other thread on ME didn't think I should like this but a much better photo than the previous one.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

what the actual **** is that twitter feed
i dont know what is going on

Neither does Mark Latham, and it's his account.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

Yes, it is what a particular feminist looks like.

Newsflash - every person, including feminists, will make dumb statements that a lot of people would disagree with. Jeffreys' seems particularly adept at making such statements, but then, hey so does Sam Newman.

#notallfeminists

 

[CM86]

#allfeminists

 

[Tigerforlife78]

Thought this would be a good place to post this after replying that I would love women's footy on TV for a bit of a perv. I have had many female associates/friends/relationships over the years and many of them have had a good perv watching men's footy for years and sometimes being quite graphic in their descriptions of what they would like to do with them (thankfully only associates/friends told me the description part ), does it make me a sexist/misogynist in your eyes for enjoying something many women have enjoyed for years? I am a fairly decent guy that has a long term partner, 2 late teen daughters from a different mother that don't live with me but love and respect me to pieces with no history or charges of abuse/violence against women.
It bothers me as I don't want to be painted into that corner as some scumbag bloke with the hysteria in media and social media surrounding topics like "men only watch women's AFL because they are perverts (or insert what ever headline you want)" when its simply not true. I watched the Melbourne v WB game until the Tigs came on on Sunday and most of it I was just watching the footy then every now and then "damn shes alright" then back to just footy, Im pretty sure this is what women do to.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Thought this would be a good place to post this after replying that I would love women's footy on TV for a bit of a perv. I have had many female associates/friends/relationships over the years and many of them have had a good perv watching men's footy for years and sometimes being quite graphic in their descriptions of what they would like to do with them (thankfully only associates/friends told me the description part ), does it make me a sexist/misogynist in your eyes for enjoying something many women have enjoyed for years? I am a fairly decent guy that has a long term partner, 2 late teen daughters from a different mother that don't live with me but love and respect me to pieces with no history or charges of abuse/violence against women.
It bothers me as I don't want to be painted into that corner as some scumbag bloke with the hysteria in media and social media surrounding topics like "men only watch women's AFL because they are perverts (or insert what ever headline you want)" when its simply not true. I watched the Melbourne v WB game until the Tigs came on on Sunday and most of it I was just watching the footy then every now and then "damn shes alright" then back to just footy, Im pretty sure this is what women do to.

Finding the opposite sex attractive doesn't make you sexist or misogynistic. I think you're ok.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

#notallfeminists

 

[fleabitten]

Most importantly, does she believe Obama works for Satan or not?

It's pretty pathetic, you guys. Even though this is not the same poster that has posted those crackpot comments (still not sure how it is relevant to this thread when you bring it up repeatedly in response to the person who said it, but anyway), you still use it to attack someone completely different rather than address what they have to say.

If we took all the personal attacks and smartarse comments out of this thread and left nothing but the actual points made and the serious responses to those points, the feminism-defenders have been getting their asses handed to them for the most part. But you just ignore most of the points and resort to cheapshots like the above, over and over. Yes, there are a few misogynists posting in here, and when they make ridiculous comments or claims, then it's reasonable to either mock them or ignore them. But there are also reasonable arguments being put forward. And there are people saying things that you might not agree with, but should at least be able to understand where they are coming from and be able to discuss their thoughts sensibly. Being a bit of a chauvinist doesn't make someone evil and it doesn't invalidate every other opinion that they have. You're all too quick to leap on one sentence of a post that you can use to discredit the person, while ignoring the person's main point entirely.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

It's pretty pathetic, you guys. Even though this is not the same poster that has posted those crackpot comments (still not sure how it is relevant to this thread when you bring it up repeatedly in response to the person who said it, but anyway), you still use it to attack someone completely different rather than address what they have to say.

If we took all the personal attacks and smartarse comments out of this thread and left nothing but the actual points made and the serious responses to those points, the feminism-defenders have been getting their asses handed to them for the most part. But you just ignore most of the points and resort to cheapshots like the above, over and over. Yes, there are a few misogynists posting in here, and when they make ridiculous comments or claims, then it's reasonable to either mock them or ignore them. But there are also reasonable arguments being put forward. And there are people saying things that you might not agree with, but should at least be able to understand where they are coming from and be able to discuss their thoughts sensibly. Being a bit of a chauvinist doesn't make someone evil and it doesn't invalidate every other opinion that they have. You're all too quick to leap on one sentence of a post that you can use to discredit the person, while ignoring the person's main point entirely.

If we took out all the misogynistic drivel in this thread, it would be lucky to reach 20 pages.

What I don't get is that you purport to want a serious debate and then you post this crap 'feminism-defenders have been getting their asses handed to them for the most part'

I would be interested to hear what you think are the 'reasonable arguments being put forward' in the almost 300 pages of this thread.

 

[fleabitten]

If we took out all the misogynistic drivel in this thread, it would be lucky to reach 20 pages.

What I don't get is that you purport to want a serious debate and then you post this crap 'feminism-defenders have been getting their asses handed to them for the most part'

I would be interested to hear what you think are the 'reasonable arguments being put forward' in the almost 300 pages of this thread.

There have been dozens of articles, videos, news items and laws discussed in this thread. Most have been dismissed without any effort at serious discussion. Only a few have actually turned into a constructive debate and those have generally ended in a kind of "I get where you are coming from" on both sides.

Mostly, we criticize something that a feminist has said or done and the only reply is that this person doesn't represent feminism. We show examples of sexist journalism and we're paranoid and looking for something to be offended by. Even when these articles are coming from major news outlets and contain blatantly misandrist comments, the most we get from you guys is a shrug and an admission that the article is silly, but no further discussion about how and why that kind of material makes it into the mainstream. We express incredulity that some minor issue like a guy's shirt or the office thermostat is the feminist issue of the day, and it gets turned around on us as though we're the ones making a big deal out of it.

But maybe I've missed the tone of the majority of the thread. I've abandoned it a few times because it devolved into boring back and forth between some possibly mental posters and the cool gang all making little quips for each other's amusement. When I come back to it again, I don't bother reading the hundreds of posts I missed.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

There have been dozens of articles, videos, news items and laws discussed in this thread. Most have been dismissed without any effort at serious discussion. Only a few have actually turned into a constructive debate and those have generally ended in a kind of "I get where you are coming from" on both sides.

Mostly, we criticize something that a feminist has said or done and the only reply is that this person doesn't represent feminism. We show examples of sexist journalism and we're paranoid and looking for something to be offended by. Even when these articles are coming from major news outlets and contain blatantly misandrist comments, the most we get from you guys is a shrug and an admission that the article is silly, but no further discussion about how and why that kind of material makes it into the mainstream. We express incredulity that some minor issue like a guy's shirt or the office thermostat is the feminist issue of the day, and it gets turned around on us as though we're the ones making a big deal out of it.

But maybe I've missed the tone of the majority of the thread. I've abandoned it a few times because it devolved into boring back and forth between some possibly mental posters and the cool gang all making little quips for each other's amusement. When I come back to it again, I don't bother reading the hundreds of posts I missed.

When you have raised matters worthy of serious attention, I have tried to engage with you, particularly on issues involving male victims of domestic violence - an issue we both have experience in, but these engagements seem to last two or three posts before the thread falls back to misogyny and anti feminist trolling. Your comments above about asses being handed to people and 'the cool gang' make me think I was wasting my time.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the people who are purportedly concerned about men's issues are not interested in having a genuine discussion about - I have many times invited discussions about issues including the performance of boys at schools, I mean FFS I even started a thread on it and it made it to 8 pages.

 

[fleabitten]

There are those in this forum that would rather make smartarse asides to each other and bring up silly things from other threads than address actual points. This includes the site admin who is willing to impose bans on people for having unpopular opinions. If calling that group "the cool gang" is enough to make you question whether I'm worth your time, then I reckon you're probably not worth mine.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

There are those in this forum that would rather make smartarse asides to each other and bring up silly things from other threads than address actual points. This includes the site admin who is willing to impose bans on people for having unpopular opinions. If calling that group "the cool gang" is enough to make you question whether I'm worth your time, then I reckon you're probably not worth mine.

Fair enough then.

 

[fleabitten]

actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the people who are purportedly concerned about men's issues are not interested in having a genuine discussion about - I have many times invited discussions about issues including the performance of boys at schools, I mean FFS I even started a thread on it and it made it to 8 pages.

I was actually thinking of the issue of boys' school performance last night and was going to post something about it here this morning before I got sidetracked. I missed your thread but will have a look for it on my lunch break.

 

[Chief]

the feminism-defenders have been getting their asses handed to them for the most part

And you wonder why I ridiculed you.

The MRA/anti-feminists/misogynists blather on with some one-eyed garbage the walk away saying to their pals "Did you see me handing them their arses?".

The concession that everyone has made is that there are people around with some weird ideas. Arguments have also been made that taking one comment and using it to represent anyone who has ever shrugged and said, yeah I am a feminist, is not even worth rebutting because it is so far outside of reality it deserves a

Unfortunately you chaps generally seem blind to the incredible weirdness of ideas of oppression of, and conspiracy against, men.

The general idea seems to be that women need to be taken down a peg or two because sometimes men get sexually assaulted, lied to by their wife, some boys find it hard at school, prostate cancer doesn't get enough publicity, and the most heinous crime of the female of the species: hot girls don't want to date unattractive guys.

So yes, we ridicule the pettiness and faux intellectual cred of your average "anti-feminist". Bring a discussion without the rubbish and you will get proper responses.

 

[fleabitten]

And you wonder why I ridiculed you.

The MRA/anti-feminists/misogynists blather on with some one-eyed garbage the walk away saying to their pals "Did you see me handing them their arses?".

The concession that everyone has made is that there are people around with some weird ideas. Arguments have also been made that taking one comment and using it to represent anyone who has ever shrugged and said, yeah I am a feminist, is not even worth rebutting because it is so far outside of reality it deserves a

Unfortunately you chaps generally seem blind to the incredible weirdness of ideas of oppression of, and conspiracy against, men.

The general idea seems to be that women need to be taken down a peg or two because sometimes men get sexually assaulted, lied to by their wife, some boys find it hard at school, prostate cancer doesn't get enough publicity, and the most heinous crime of the female of the species: hot girls don't want to date unattractive guys.

So yes, we ridicule the pettiness and faux intellectual cred of your average "anti-feminist".

Not one of those things applies to me. I'm not MRA or misogynist (I'm anti modern feminism but that doesn't mean I belong in the other groups). I don't have "pals" on this site, I just come here to get things off my chest, read other people's opinions and hopefully get into an interesting conversation.

I don't think there's a conspiracy against men, just as I believe there's no conspiracy against women.

I don't think women need to be taken down any pegs and the comment about hot girls dating unattractive guys is just silly. I've certainly never suggested anything of the sort.

What you've posted is typical. Project a bunch of opinions and beliefs onto someone as a way of avoiding reasonable discussion. "He's a misogynist everybody! He thinks women need to be taken down a few pegs! Don't bother discussing anything with him, all of his views are invalid because of what I just told you about him!"

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

And you wonder why I ridiculed you.

The MRA/anti-feminists/misogynists blather on with some one-eyed garbage the walk away saying to their pals "Did you see me handing them their arses?".

The concession that everyone has made is that there are people around with some weird ideas. Arguments have also been made that taking one comment and using it to represent anyone who has ever shrugged and said, yeah I am a feminist, is not even worth rebutting because it is so far outside of reality it deserves a

Unfortunately you chaps generally seem blind to the incredible weirdness of ideas of oppression of, and conspiracy against, men.

The general idea seems to be that women need to be taken down a peg or two because sometimes men get sexually assaulted, lied to by their wife, some boys find it hard at school, prostate cancer doesn't get enough publicity, and the most heinous crime of the female of the species: hot girls don't want to date unattractive guys.

So yes, we ridicule the pettiness and faux intellectual cred of your average "anti-feminist". Bring a discussion without the rubbish and you will get proper responses.

Exactly. If people want a discussion on boys education, lets have it.

I have two young boys so it is something I feel is important and would be very happy to share my observations and discuss the matter. But if the discussions are going to revolve around articles about thermostats, a poster that may or may not have appeared at an American university or something that an obscure diversity officer from a university in the UK may have said, it is clear people do not want to discuss genuine issues impacting on men's welfare.

 

[BORK]

The general idea seems to be that women need to be taken down a peg or two because sometimes men get sexually assaulted, lied to by their wife, some boys find it hard at school

I am not sure how you interpret assistance for men to involve taking women down a peg.

and the most heinous crime of the female of the species: hot girls don't want to date unattractive guys.

So yes, we ridicule the pettiness

 

[Chief]

Don't bother discussing anything with him, all of his views are invalid because of what I just told you about him!"

I added:

Bring a discussion without the rubbish and you will get proper responses.

Pretend a lame meme represents the entire body of feminist thought - academic or otherwise - and you run the risk of being ridiculed. Pretend that the anti-feminists in this thread have generally been arguing at a higher standard than others and you will also be ridiculed, because we can see it isn't true.

 

[Chief]

I am not sure how you interpret assistance for men to involve taking women down a peg.

You know that most of these observations end with "and that's how these awful feminists are ruining society". Stop pretending they don't.

 

[kfc1]

Exactly. If people want a discussion on boys education, lets have it.

I have two young boys so it is something I feel is important and would be very happy to share my observations and discuss the matter. But if the discussions are going to revolve around articles about thermostats, a poster that may or may not have appeared at an American university or something that an obscure diversity officer from a university in the UK may have said, it is clear people do not want to discuss genuine issues impacting on men's welfare.

In a thread titled Feminist Myths its hardly surprising that dumb shit said/written/posted by feminists is mentioned here and mocked or criticised.

 

[fleabitten]

I added:

Bring a discussion without the rubbish and you will get proper responses.

Pretend a lame meme represents the entire body of feminist thought - academic or otherwise - and you run the risk of being ridiculed. Pretend that the anti-feminists in this thread have generally been arguing at a higher standard than others and you will also be ridiculed, because we can see it isn't true.

First, just because it was in meme format, doesn't mean it's not true. That particular feminist has some pretty messed up views about men and until recently, she was a lecturer at one of our country's best universities. She has her work published and discussed seriously. You can't just say, "Oh, that's just one feminist academic in a position to influence thousands of young minds, she doesn't represent all feminism" and end the discussion. If you agree that her opinions are messed up, then surely you have to wonder why she's been paid for them for the last three decades?

 

[fleabitten]

Exactly. If people want a discussion on boys education, lets have it.

I have two young boys so it is something I feel is important and would be very happy to share my observations and discuss the matter. But if the discussions are going to revolve around articles about thermostats, a poster that may or may not have appeared at an American university or something that an obscure diversity officer from a university in the UK may have said, it is clear people do not want to discuss genuine issues impacting on men's welfare.

I was thinking last night that the fall in boys' performance at school is probably more to do with the much lower levels of discipline that we have in schools now. Boys are generally more boisterous and harder to control in the classroom (I was a teacher for 6 years and make that claim pretty confidently). A few generations ago, most of the kids who had trouble staying focused in class would have been forced to focus under the threat of the cane. As a result, the kids at the lower end of the grades scale would achieve at a higher level than if they were allowed to muck around more.

Boys who are more naturally inclined to sit still in class and learn would still fare just as well as girls who did the same and I believe we still see boys well-represented at the highest levels of achievement. It's just that the average is dragged down by the kids who get away with doing the bare minimum right through school and aren't really punished in any meaningful way if they don't pay attention in class. These kids are more likely to be male than female.

I'm not suggesting that re-instating corporal punishment is the right thing, just that the decline in discipline is my prime suspect for why boys appear to be struggling.