Final standings for MVP ?

[Dissident]

Who do you think will be the top three in order, at the end of MVP counting ?

I would say :

1. Willy Farley
2. Ricky Grace
3. Mark Bradtke

Though, they could finish in ANY order in that .. no doubt. I'm a bit sceptical about Willy finishing with the honor, being a first year player, AND from Adelaide

All deserve it, as do maybe a few others - but that's what I think anyway.

Thoughts ?

 

[Squeak]

At the moment I'm thinking Grace. He's been a star ever since he joined the league, yet he has managed to step it up a notch this year, while lifting Perth from the doldrums into contendership.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Just has to be Mark Bradtke. He, unlike Grace, has been outstanding ALL season.

 

[Mead]

I suggest you check the stats before u say that- bradtke has been excellent all season, but so has grace... Indeed, during the early games when perth were in a major slump, Grace was the only leading light- first five games of the season he averaged something like 26ppg, and has scored in double figures every single game. As i said earlier, if the voting was done today, i think Bradtke would win it on his merits, but the season ain't over yet, and if Grace continues with current form, it will be very very close indeed.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Mead
I suggest you check the stats before u say that- Grace was the only leading light- first five games of the season he averaged something like 26ppg

Total bullshi.t.

In the first five games Ricky Grace averaged 19.8 ppg

I suggest YOU check your stats

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Ricky Grace's season

First 18 games: 20.4ppg on 41.8% shooting, 4.5rpg, 5.4apg, 5.33TO

Last 7 games: 30ppg on 57.9% shooting, 4.6rpg, 8apg, 4.6TO

Now, you tell me if there is a difference in those stats.

The stats for the MAJORITY of the season are nothing spectacular, definitely not MVP material.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Let's have a look at the numbers from the three main contenders mentioned in Dissidents post:

Mark Bradtke
22.6 ppg (5th in the league), 14.1rpg( 1st in the league), 1.4bpg (5th in the league), 2.9 apg.

Ricky Grace
21.5ppg (9th), 4.4rpg, 5.6apg (6th, quite poor for the supposedly best PG in the league), 0.59spg (again a pretty poor return), 5.2TO (worst in the league by far, a disgraceful figure).


Willie Farley
25.7ppg (1st), 4.3rpg, 2.52apg, 2.3spg (3rd in the league).

Now, could another UNBIASED, EDUCATED bball fan tell me, of those 3, which players numbers are the best?

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Let's have a look at the numbers from the three main contenders mentioned in Dissidents post:

Mark Bradtke
22.6 ppg (5th in the league), 14.1rpg( 1st in the league), 1.4bpg (5th in the league), 2.9 apg.

Ricky Grace
21.5ppg (9th), 4.4rpg, 5.6apg (6th, quite poor for the supposedly best PG in the league), 0.59spg (again a pretty poor return), 5.2TO (worst in the league by far, a disgraceful figure).


Willie Farley
25.7ppg (1st), 4.3rpg, 2.52apg, 2.3spg (3rd in the league).

Now, could another UNBIASED, EDUCATED bball fan tell me, of those 3, which players numbers are the best?

Im not unbiased, but I don't have to be when it comes to this, because its pretty bloody obvious.

Farley has very little chance. The 3 points a game he gets over Bradtke is far outweighed, by Bradtkes 10 extra rebounds.

And Bradtke's rebounding statistics is far more impressive than Grace's assists stats and he scores more

Bradtke has been the best player in the country this year, and therefore not only should he be MVP, he probably will be MVP

 

[Dissident]

To be honest phatandphreaky .. it isn't as clear cut as you make it out. I mean hell, if you're comparing stats, you have to at least have the same stats for everyone. You've got blocked shots there which is something you'd *expect* a centre to have more of.

Of those two, Farley and Bradtke have close numbers as far as MVP voting goes. Farley has more points per game .. etc. Bradtke has more rebounds, though I'd expect that from a centre. Farley more steals - though you'd expect that from a player like him.

Add to that they way they're like to watch, and they're even closer. Farley is as exciting an import has been for years - and Bradtke is a pleasure to watch posting up against *anyone* and taking it to the hole.

I wouldn't be disappointed if either of them won it .. and the other was second, and that's from an Adelaide fan. Of course, Bradtke is from here anyway

Sounds like you've already discounted Farley phatandphreaky? I wouldn't.

Ahh stuff it, who are we kidding dude... Heal will win cos he's, Shane Heal

(not)

 

[jod23]

Hell will freeze over before Willie Farley wins the MVP this season. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. Simple as that.

The winner will come from Bradtke or Grace. And for all those harping on about there stats, it doesnt all come down to there stat lines, if it did MJ would have won the MVP every year he played.

Grace is more valuble to Perth than Bradtke is to Melbourne, Grace is a better leader as shown by his leadership in bringin Perth from last to second when everybody but me was counting them out. Grace is a better scorer. Bradtke averages slightly more but that doesnt mean he is a better scorer. Game on the line, Perth go to Grace, he is our money man. Bradtke is the third option on offence in crunch time. All of these factors come into play when the voting is done.

Having said all that i still think Bradkte will get it but i feel Grace deserves it more because he was robbed last year of the award and he has had to work more for his team to get his team into the position there in now.

Rant over..

 

[RoosLuver]

Mark Bradtke should win it!

 

[Dissident]

hell freezes over ? damn that's harsh! Do you just not like him or something? I mean a lot of coaches they've interviewed on TV and players as well have him in their top two for the MVP award (their prediction).. so it can't be THAT much of a longshot.

The winner will come from those THREE, not those two. I'd be happy for any of them to win it - they all deserve it in their own right.

 

[dogboy23]

If Bradtke doesnt win it it is an absolute disgrace.Has absolutely dominated this season.Some of his big games the numbers he put up were nothing short of astonishing.Jod the stats show Bradtke as the better scorer the fact that he is our third option adds to the merit of him being a better scorer not takes away from it.Better leader pfffft he is the point guard of course he is going to be a leader Bradtkes and Copelands performances in the absence of Gaze also shows a fair bit of leadership dont you think?

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Dissident
To be honest phatandphreaky .. it isn't as clear cut as you make it out. I mean hell, if you're comparing stats, you have to at least have the same stats for everyone. You've got blocked shots there which is something you'd *expect* a centre to have more of.

Yeah fair point.

Originally posted by Dissident


Sounds like you've already discounted Farley phatandphreaky? I wouldn't.

Nah, not at all, i think Farley is as good a chance as anybody, but imho Mark Bradtke deserves the award.

1st: Bradtke
2nd: Farley
3rd: Grace

 

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by jod23


The winner will come from Bradtke or Grace. And for all those harping on about there stats, it doesnt all come down to there stat lines, if it did MJ would have won the MVP every year he played.

Grace is more valuble to Perth than Bradtke is to Melbourne, Grace is a better leader as shown by his leadership in bringin Perth from last to second when everybody but me was counting them out. Grace is a better scorer. Bradtke averages slightly more but that doesnt mean he is a better scorer. Game on the line, Perth go to Grace, he is our money man. Bradtke is the third option on offence in crunch time. All of these factors come into play when the voting is done.

Having said all that i still think Bradkte will get it but i feel Grace deserves it more because he was robbed last year of the award and he has had to work more for his team to get his team into the position there in now.

Rant over..

Grace is not more valuable to Perth then Bradtke is to Melbourne. Without Bradtke we would have to start Nathan Taylor, he is not up to it.
Bradtke has been dominant all season, single handedly carrying the Tigers rebounding and inside defence. He is also as good a scorer as Grace if not better, there is no one in the NBL that can stop him from scoring. He is also a great defender, good passer, incredibly athletic and a good leader. He also has a presence inside that no one in the league can match, he constantly draws defenders towards him aiding our shooters in Gaze and Copes.
Bradtke should win it, Grace should come second. If anyone else wins it is a disgrace

 

[Tredders#16]

I'd like to see Ricky Grace win it this year. He has been ultra-consistent since entering the league and has stepped it up this year once again. Bradtke has very impressive numbers and Farley is exciting, but I'd love to see Ricky win it!

Tredders#16

 

[ant]

Bradtke should win it, he deserves to win it, I feel he's been the outstanding player in the NBL this year...quite simply he's the most valuable player.

And Jod, oh great Basketball Guru of Bigfooty, Farley is a big chance for the award this year, he'll be right up there with both Mark and Ricky. As for him winning it, unless you're on the judging panel, you wouldn't have a clue mate so I'd keep my trap shut

Jod, you keep saying stats isn't everything and that's very true....with the losses the Sixers had in the off-season and the minimal talent we have on our roster, if we had picked up any other American import, we would have been stuffed. But thankfully Smyth picked up Farley and together with Maher, have been the key reasons as to why we sit in 3rd spot at the moment, while other more talented sides languish below us. Farley is a very strong contender for the award and could very well win it (though personally, he probably won't).

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by dogboy23
If Bradtke doesnt win it it is an absolute disgrace.Has absolutely dominated this season.Some of his big games the numbers he put up were nothing short of astonishing.Jod the stats show Bradtke as the better scorer the fact that he is our third option adds to the merit of him being a better scorer not takes away from it.Better leader pfffft he is the point guard of course he is going to be a leader Bradtkes and Copelands performances in the absence of Gaze also shows a fair bit of leadership dont you think?

I didnt say Bradtke wasnt a leader, he has shown good leadership in the absence of Gaze but he isnt in the same league as Grace. Grace controls games, with or without the ball, he controls the tempo....he is the best point guard in the league. Grace is the better scorer too...Bradtke averages 22 because most nights he gets 22 on the dime, he was never one for big 40+ nights....Grace has had 3 40+nights in the last 2 weeks hasnt he??

Anyways im not taking anything away from Bradtke, he has had a great season and i think he is the favourite for the award and rightly so. Obviously i want Ricky to win and he is a chance so heres hoping...

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Bulldog1954


Grace is not more valuable to Perth then Bradtke is to Melbourne. Without Bradtke we would have to start Nathan Taylor, he is not up to it.
Bradtke has been dominant all season, single handedly carrying the Tigers rebounding and inside defence. He is also as good a scorer as Grace if not better, there is no one in the NBL that can stop him from scoring. He is also a great defender, good passer, incredibly athletic and a good leader. He also has a presence inside that no one in the league can match, he constantly draws defenders towards him aiding our shooters in Gaze and Copes.
Bradtke should win it, Grace should come second. If anyone else wins it is a disgrace

Get off it Bulldog1954......without Grace the Wildcats lose there leading scorer, leading passer, and all round general leader. All there offence flows through Ricky Grace. Without RG the Wildcats would be cellar dwellars. But the Tigers without Bradtke would still get enough offence from Copeland and Gaze too cause problems and to get wins. Bradtke is valuble to the Tigers but nowhere near how valuble Grace is to Perth.

I agree that the top 2 should be Grace and Bradtke in which order...?? I dont know.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by ant
Bradtke should win it, he deserves to win it, I feel he's been the outstanding player in the NBL this year...quite simply he's the most valuable player.

And Jod, oh great Basketball Guru of Bigfooty, Farley is a big chance for the award this year, he'll be right up there with both Mark and Ricky. As for him winning it, unless you're on the judging panel, you wouldn't have a clue mate so I'd keep my trap shut

Jod, you keep saying stats isn't everything and that's very true....with the losses the Sixers had in the off-season and the minimal talent we have on our roster, if we had picked up any other American import, we would have been stuffed. But thankfully Smyth picked up Farley and together with Maher, have been the key reasons as to why we sit in 3rd spot at the moment, while other more talented sides languish below us. Farley is a very strong contender for the award and could very well win it (though personally, he probably won't).

Sorry Ant but Farley has no hope. Sure he'll get votes and im sure he'll finish in the top 10 but there's no way he will win it. He has being a very good pickup for the 36ers and his stats and his game is impressive but he hasnt had the season that Grace and Bradtke have had.

Its funny though, your post starts off with a statement, then you go on to diss me about my Farley rejections and then you agree with me at the end. You and I both know he wont win it.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by jod23


Sorry Ant but Farley has no hope. Sure he'll get votes and im sure he'll finish in the top 10 but there's no way he will win it. He has being a very good pickup for the 36ers and his stats and his game is impressive but he hasnt had the season that Grace and Bradtke have had.

Its funny though, your post starts off with a statement, then you go on to diss me about my Farley rejections and then you agree with me at the end. You and I both know he wont win it.

I guess it's the fact you blatantly dismiss Farley that gets me going, however I should have realised, subtlety and tact were never your strong suits

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by jod23


Grace is the best point guard in the league.

Out of interest Jod, what makes a good point guard?

For me the two main criterion are a) passing and b) ball control

Ricky Grace is nothing short of POOR in both those areas.

He averages 5.6 assists which even you will have to admit isn't a great return for the apparent greatest PG ever in this league/

And as for ball control, 5.2 TO per game is downright disgraceful and would have to be close to a world record.

His Assists to turnover ratio in 2002 is 1.07, that is an all time low.

A great player, not a great PG.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by ant


I guess it's the fact you blatantly dismiss Farley that gets me going, however I should have realised, subtlety and tact were never your strong suits

Your damn right

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky


Out of interest Jod, what makes a good point guard?

For me the two main criterion are a) passing and b) ball control

Ricky Grace is nothing short of POOR in both those areas.

He averages 5.6 assists which even you will have to admit isn't a great return for the apparent greatest PG ever in this league/

And as for ball control, 5.2 TO per game is downright disgraceful and would have to be close to a world record.

His Assists to turnover ratio in 2002 is 1.07, that is an all time low.

A great player, not a great PG.

What makes a good point guard? Tough question. IMO its almost everything. The PG is the most important position on the floor, he runs the offence, he runs the tempo, he distributes, he scores, he handles the ball. The PG is most important player in the game.

Thats traditionally though, like in MJ's 6 titles there PG, Armstrong and Harper didnt really run the offence or the tempo or score or pass?? But they were extroadinary circumstances as everything flowed through Jordan.

The traditional point guard is what Ricky Grace is, no player runs the offence like him. He is the best leader in the league and his 5.2 tpg are easily covered by his passing, scoring and leadership.

P&P, you always seem to think that basketball is about stats....

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by jod23


P&P, you always seem to think that basketball is about stats....

HAHA This from the man who totally condemned 3 players based purely on stats, never having seen any of them play (live or on tv).

Jon, you are hilarious.

Get a clue dude