Forced Retirements

[kent]

It should be obvious to everyone that for Sydney to recover under Roos that some of the older Swans need to go.

Both Maxfield and Cresswell have to consider their staus with the club and whether they will be able to make it through a season. Maxfield was injured and faced surgery - he is a good player but he needs to go and make way for the younger ones coming through. Ditto for Cresswell.

Kelly and Dunks both were honest with themselves and wih the club - these others are going to be harder to shift.

Roos needs young blood.

 

[Desredandwhite]

Some of the older guys HAVE gone. It'd be less than ideal for MORE veterans to retire right now. You can't just throw a team of kids in and hope they'll be alright. They need guidance from the older players as well. FWIW I think Cressa has one more year left in him, and Stuie Maxfield has one or two.

The team will be plenty young.

 

[kent]

Forced retirement



I accept what u are saying but Cresswell looked very tired at the end of this season and gave me the impression he had had enough. Whatever they are paying Maxfield is too much and he is very soft around the packs, grantede he is a good kick and has a safe pair of hands but u need more and the only way the young ones are going to get the chance is to stand down 2 guys who Roos will automatically select .

 

[BluesPrez]

Experience

Swans desperately need experience. In Kelly and Dunkley, you've lost 450 games worth of experience. Maxfield is only in his late 20's, and especially in the midfield, you need some steel there.

If you just play kids, you'll end up like Carlton did this year, playing kids as often more than 1/3 of our team. And look what happened to us. You need experience there, just being young and having ability means nothing if you haven't been there before and know what to do in pressure situations.

 

[Donners]

Cresswell had almost 100 posessions more than his nearest rival (500 opposed to Paul Williams' 419) last season, while Maxfield had the best season of his career in 2001 and was on track for another top year in 2002 before his knee injury. With a distinct lack of decent midfielders in the squad, to get rid of two of the best would be ridiculous.

 

[kent]

Re: Experience

Originally posted by BluesPrez
Swans desperately need experience. In Kelly and Dunkley, you've lost 450 games worth of experience. Maxfield is only in his late 20's, and especially in the midfield, you need some steel there.

If you just play kids, you'll end up like Carlton did this year, playing kids as often more than 1/3 of our team. And look what happened to us. You need experience there, just being young and having ability means nothing if you haven't been there before and know what to do in pressure situations.

What they need is a 3 year rebuilding phase as the Dockers are doing and doing well ,as are the Eagles. What they need is space for the young ones to get the games and experience in that time and Roos will continue to field older players whose legs have just about had it.

Maxfield is not sound he has had one operation. Sydney needs players who go in hard around the packs. He is always on the periphery letting the others go in and scrap, he is more of a crumber. If he is so good why does he poll poorlyin the Brownlow count.He is a great kick noone can dispute that but he is not inspiring to watch.

Dunkley looks and plays like a tired man and he had had enough at the end of 2002. I can see him pulling the pin in 2003 mid year as it gets harder to keep getting up week after week when you are his age.

Give the young ones a go and in 3 years you will see the results - you only have to look at Port's season this year to see what their regeneration has achieved.

 

[CharlieG]

Both Cresswell and Maxfield are safely inside our best 22. To me that's enough - you are in the 22, you stay and play.

Honestly I can't believe those sentiments. Cressa had 500 possies in 2002, and came 2nd in the Skilton. Maxi is 31, and, far from in danger of being overtaken by youth, is touted as a potential Captain for next season. He has been filling in with that role in a way, he is the designated leader of the playing group.

OUCH! One operation and you're finished? Goodbye Scott Stevens then. Didn't he do his groin? That's at least a three week injury, and he's already 20! Seeya Goodesy, Micky O, Baz! They've all had operations as well.

And when did Port adopt a youth policy and regenerate their list? They've been in the comp 6 years, they haven't had time! Most of their players have come from the period of 1997-99. Regenerated the list, huh?

Charlie

 

[kent]

You make your point well but on the injuries any spports medicine specialist will tell you that at 30 + injuries do not respond as well and Maxfield is over 30 and he looks over the hill. It is dubious whether he can see another season out and that is why younger players need the space.

Cresswell looks tired and maybe the break will rejuvenate him but I think he will battle to see a season out, he looks tired and he is nowhere as quick as he used to be. I like Cressell and he has given good service to the club and has been a great player.

You say Maxfield is a possible captain - I hope not - the Swans need someone who can be counted on for at least a couple of years as they have had continuity with Kelly for so long - Sydney does not need a stopgap and that is all Maxfiedl will be and I note that others on this board feel the same way/

 

[CharlieG]

Tell me, how do you propose to replace them? We already have 6 departures from the list - Kelly, Dunkley, Schwass, Lockett, Daffy and James. I'd bank on 2-3 of Seymour, Warfe, Brockman and McPherson joining them.

We have to make a trade for Nick Davis, and we only have 5 draft picks. How on Earth do you propose to fill their spaces?

Cressa is on the veteran's list anyway, and Maxi is still super-fit for a 31 year old other than the knee, from which it is expected he will make a full recovery. He still has 2-3 years of quality footy, and is a fair chance of playing 300 games. He is easily in our best 22.

Charlie

 

[kent]

Originally posted by CharlieG
Tell me, how do you propose to replace them? We already have 6 departures from the list - Kelly, Dunkley, Schwass, Lockett, Daffy and James. I'd bank on 2-3 of Seymour, Warfe, Brockman and McPherson joining them.

We have to make a trade for Nick Davis, and we only have 5 draft picks. How on Earth do you propose to fill their spaces?

Cressa is on the veteran's list anyway, and Maxi is still super-fit for a 31 year old other than the knee, from which it is expected he will make a full recovery. He still has 2-3 years of quality footy, and is a fair chance of playing 300 games. He is easily in our best 22.

Charlie

Charlie - How do you know that he is superfit at 31 - I couldnt nor wouldnt pass a judgement like that unless I was his Doctor or Physio. He is 31 and if he has 2 to 3 years football in him well and good but the warning signs are there - age and a knee injury.

Cresswell - I stand by my own assessment that he looked jaded at the end of the season and it makes it harder each year to come back and play at the top level when you get over 28 plus.

 

[CharlieG]

How do I know he is superfit? By looking at him. He can run all day. He is the fittest looking player over 30 in the AFL.

But that is irrelevant. Because I can turn this argument around on you. How do you know that he is a risk with his knee? Unless you are his doctor or surgeon, I don't think you should be making those judgments.

Charlie

 

[Desredandwhite]

Okay, we've established that no one here is Stuart Maxfield's doctor. Fantastic.

Much as I'd love to read the same posts over and over and over again.... Please refrain from posting unless you have something NEW to add. Everyone has made very good points so far and believe it or not.. they are all valid opinions. That's all they are. Post yours and move on.

This post was for the benefit of my sanity only (some may argue that I wouldn't get very much value)

 

[Donners]

Re: Re: Experience

Originally posted by kent

Dunkley looks and plays like a tired man and he had had enough at the end of 2002. I can see him pulling the pin in 2003 mid year as it gets harder to keep getting up week after week when you are his age.

Unless there is some huge bit of news I've missed, I don't think you'll be seeing much of him in 2003 at all...

 

[kent]

Originally posted by Desredandwhite
Okay, we've established that no one here is Stuart Maxfield's doctor. Fantastic.

Much as I'd love to read the same posts over and over and over again.... Please refrain from posting unless you have something NEW to add. Everyone has made very good points so far and believe it or not.. they are all valid opinions. That's all they are. Post yours and move on.

This post was for the benefit of my sanity only (some may argue that I wouldn't get very much value)

On rereading this column - you are correct - it was getting into an argument which was unwinnable.

I dont understand your point that "this post was for the benefit of my sanity only" Please explain!

Could you also explain why the Sydney board has the lowest number of hits.

 

[kent]

Re: Re: Re: Experience

Originally posted by Donners


Unless there is some huge bit of news I've missed, I don't think you'll be seeing much of him in 2003 at all...

People make mistakes - we are only human - looks like your parents also made one!!!!!

 

[Desredandwhite]

Originally posted by kent




On rereading this column - you are correct - it was getting into an argument which was unwinnable.

I dont understand your point that "this post was for the benefit of my sanity only" Please explain!

Could you also explain why the Sydney board has the lowest number of hits.

MY post was for the benefit of my sanity! Just something I had to say - you should ignore or take on board as you see fit, my opinion being of as little or much value as anyone else's!

The Sydney board has the lowest number of hits because there are not a lot of Sydney supporters on BigFooty. I try to post in here whenever I can, but there's usually not a lot of traffic. You'll find that the Swans fans post more on the main boards as there's more people on there (catch 22, you see).

A lot of Swans post on redandwhiteonline as well.

 

[liz]

Just to keep Des on his toes I'll weigh in (once!) with my opinion.

Cressa just came second in the B&F - hardly suggests he's a has-been. And he's only 31. Bradley is still playing at the age of 39! And maybe he did look tired at the end of the year. I think that's just the way he looks. He's looked tired at the end of every season I've seen him play and it probably reflects on the work he does during the season.

Maxfield is widely acknowledged by the club to be the most professional there (possibly aside from PK) in how he prepares himself. His stamina has never been fantastic but he is strong and fast. Why does one operation spell the end of his career? And so what about him being a receiver? The team can't have 22 in-and-under players. And it doesn't stop him laying some of the toughest tackles you'll ever see.

Sydney will go into next year with just 4 players around the early 30s. That's hardly a lot. And the younger players will learn more and benefit from playing with these guys rather than being thrown to the wolves. They need to learn how to win as much as anything and they'll be in a better state to do this surrounded by the experience, skill, toughness etc of Willo, Maxfield and Cressa.

And I'm hopeful Willo and maybe Stewie will still be around to lift the premiership cup in a few years.

 

[kent]

Originally posted by Desredandwhite


MY post was for the benefit of my sanity! Just something I had to say - you should ignore or take on board as you see fit, my opinion being of as little or much value as anyone else's!

The Sydney board has the lowest number of hits because there are not a lot of Sydney supporters on BigFooty. I try to post in here whenever I can, but there's usually not a lot of traffic. You'll find that the Swans fans post more on the main boards as there's more people on there (catch 22, you see).

A lot of Swans post on redandwhiteonline as well.

Good response


But if you dont mind I have to query Charley and Donner one last time.

 

[kent]

Originally posted by liz
Just to keep Des on his toes I'll weigh in (once!) with my opinion.

Cressa just came second in the B&F - hardly suggests he's a has-been. And he's only 31. Bradley is still playing at the age of 39! And maybe he did look tired at the end of the year. I think that's just the way he looks. He's looked tired at the end of every season I've seen him play and it probably reflects on the work he does during the season.

Maxfield is widely acknowledged by the club to be the most professional there (possibly aside from PK) in how he prepares himself. His stamina has never been fantastic but he is strong and fast. Why does one operation spell the end of his career? And so what about him being a receiver? The team can't have 22 in-and-under players. And it doesn't stop him laying some of the toughest tackles you'll ever see.

Sydney will go into next year with just 4 players around the early 30s. That's hardly a lot. And the younger players will learn more and benefit from playing with these guys rather than being thrown to the wolves. They need to learn how to win as much as anything and they'll be in a better state to do this surrounded by the experience, skill, toughness etc of Willo, Maxfield and Cressa.

And I'm hopeful Willo and maybe Stewie will still be around to lift the premiership cup in a few years.

Well Liz and Charlie - I defer to your greater knowledge - one says Stuey is really fit and the other says he lacks stamina. Which is it to be.

The last time I saw the Swans play live was at Subiaco and he looked like he was carrying too much weight and looked as tired as Cresswell.

Cresswell also looked tired but he looked in better condition than Stuey - but being realistic he looks like he has had enough. He reminded me me of Schwab before he pulled the pin.

I could point to a dozen or so younger players that were more tenacious for the ball than Stuey, he has been getting away with it so far but in 2003 he needs to show more grit.

I've said enough and Des is right - too much of the same is boring - but hey I like the last word on everything.

 

[liz]

Originally posted by kent


Well Liz and Charlie - I defer to your greater knowledge - one says Stuey is really fit and the other says he lacks stamina. Which is it to be.

I've said enough and Des is right - too much of the same is boring - but hey I like the last word on everything.

Being fit and not having great stamina are not mutually exclusive. Some people naturally have a lot of stamina - its genetic as much as anything - while others are more of burst players. Stewie falls into the latter category. And its all relative. I daresay he has more stamina than any of us posting here could ever envisage personally! Except when it comes to debating football.

You've stated your opinion Kent. Others have stated why they disagree. Maybe you should just accept your POV isn't shared by all.

 

[kent]

Liz - that is ridiculous in connection with footballers - you have to have stamina to last 4 quarters of football. Stuey cant do that and seems to be on the bench more than most.

Stuey looked and probably was overweight (he has had weight problems before) and he did not look super fit prior to his operation - I still make the point he wont get through another season.

Look at the Eagles and their knee problems Jackovich was a lot younger, was super fit, and needed 2 years to get back to anything like the form he had shown.

Phillip Reid same situation much younger than both and the knee went again as soon as pressure went on it. Stuey doesnt have that sort of time left.

Incidentally, I agree that everyone is entitled to disagree and I should take my POV (clever) and go but I also said I liked the last word, however, Liz you also want it. So over to you!!!!

 

[liz]

Kent

You're welcome to the last word - and I'm expecting a response. But I can't let those comments go.

When I said Maxfield's stamina is not his greatest strength it is within the context of AFL players. Some are naturally built so they can run all day - on the Swans list Fosdike is said to have outstanding endurance, for example. But not all players are the same. Maxfield has always been more of a burst player. However, he has also improved his endurance noticeably in the last couple of years. I think you'll find he has spent a lot less time on the bench in recent seasons than he did in 1998-9. Midway through this season - immediately before he had his operation - he was struggling a little but that was because he had been carrying the injury for a while. They had hoped to nurse him through the season with it but when it became clear that finals were not part of the equation it was decided to clean the knee up immediately so he would be ready to start the pre-season on time.


A lot of his improved endurance was attributed to Missan taking over as conditioning coach - he observed a few of the players (Maxfield named as one) were carrying too much muscle bulk and worked with them to strip some of it off. Maxfield had previously been reported as being a bit of a weights junkie. I remember reading comments from Kevin Dyson who used to room with Maxfield for away games that Maxfield couldn't be kept away from the weights, even in their hotel room.

The comparison with Reid is a bit irrelevant. Reid had a full knee reconstruction following a rupture to his anterior cruciate ligament. This is not the same problem that Maxfield had. His is far less serious. I know nothing about Jakovich's knee problems so I can't comment on this. But players have all sorts of operations during their career and most return successfully. We won't know whether Maxfield gets through another season (or 2 or 3) until this time next year or beyond but it's stretching things a bit to say he's gone just because he's had one operation.

My money is on him being fine - and on being named captain for next year.

 

[shiva25]

From what i hear Maxfield is highly rated by Sydney and therefore would be one of their higher paid players however whatever they are paying him its far to much as i have never really rated him as a top class player.
He doesnt go in and get the hard ball and prefers to hang out of packs and is also very injury prone
Cresswell on the other hand had a very reasonable year and might have 1 or 2 years left in him yet but Sydney need midfielders as most of their midfielders are 30 or over

 

[TheMase]

Originally posted by shiva25
but Sydney need midfielders as most of their midfielders are 30 or over

Fixter, Kennelly, Schneider, Sundqvist, Buchannon (middy IMO), Fosdike, Bolton, Matthews, O'Keefe.

We have a few, but yes we probably need a couple more.

All those players are under 25 too...

 

[Donners]

Originally posted by TheMase


Fixter, Kennelly, Schneider, Sundqvist, Buchannon (middy IMO), Fosdike, Bolton, Matthews, O'Keefe.

We have a few, but yes we probably need a couple more.

All those players are under 25 too...

Mathews and Fixter play mainly in defence (and there aren't any obvious replacements for them should they go into the middle), O'Keefe is better suited to a flanking role given his height, as is Sundqvist, while Bolton fell away in 2002 and Schneider and Buchanon (though to a lesser extent) are still unproven.