Forward Line Set up

[ChrisFooty]

Ross Lyon played all three big forwards in the 50m arc for large parts of the game on Saturday night.

G-train was the only one who looked dangerous and played a solid game. Reiwoldt or Kosi should play a more traditional centre half forward. They are not as relaible when kicking for goal. One should play between 50-100 metres between goal. The forward structure got a bit messy at times.

Luckily the midfield started to fire as the match progressed.

thoughts?

 

[35Harvs]

thought it did look a bit messy at times, I can't remember a time where we've had the opportunity to play all 3 as forwards(?).

With that set up we'll stretch any side. Just need to tweak it a bit

 

[Cardio Carl]

I must admit before start of the year I would have prefered Fraser not there and we worked around Kosi & Roo.

However when looking at the Sydney game and then Carlton I have changed my mind (in fact hope he can play in the goal sqaure for another 1-2 years) - his conversion is far superior than the other big forwards and by having the 3 up there will stretch any team in terms of height and strength. Plus throwing King or Gardiner down there keeps the tall pressure going when they are off.

Three key things I see:

1) they need to synchronise their leading so not all leading into same areas.

2) When teams double up on the 3 - then the small forwards have to be smart and crumb the forward ball etc

3) and rightly stated - end of day the guys need to convert and finish off the up field work and place scoreboard pressure on the other teams


Also - big test is when we finally play on a BIG ground to see how it all works i.e. MCG

 

[Squizz]

Riewoldt's kicking from in front of goal has been much better this year. Obviously is having trouble with longer kicking, so not sure whether having him run harder/further (up field) and kick longer is a good idea.

Kosi refuses to give the other forwards a run at it - if he thinks he can get to a contest he will crash in. This is causing havoc. I still believe he is a better ruckman than forward - he can run forward as a ruckman and be much more dangerous.

I hope they will get better but Gehrig needs room and good defensive pressure from those around him (he still doesn't really chase or tackle).

The bigger grounds would help, but we don't seem to have many this year.

 

[Cardio Carl]

The bigger grounds would help, but we don't seem to have many this year.[/quote]

yeah - just wondering if they may be a factor later in the year in terms of forward structure etc?

 

[Speck]

I believe we really need a lot more set plays with the forward line, especially when all 3 are in there. It looks like they just don't know what to do and which way to move as someones sitting at the top of the 50 ready to pass it in.

 

[sainter]

I know it's hard to take much out of a win against Carlton but the very reason we intend to play the three talls is to stretch the opposition. Kosi has a bad game and Roo wasn't at his best but it was the third tall in Gehrig that came up with the goods. He was well supported by Milney who I was delighted to see put himself in the right positions.

If we are to persist with playing the three key forwards we have to expect some teething problems with the way they work together. A bigger ground would give them more space but I like the idea of a quick ball out of the middle landing 30 metres out from goal with the likes of Milney, Schneider and even Montagna running forward from the midfield to be ready for the crumbs.

Looking ahead to next week, the Bulldogs will probably have to go with Lake on Gehrig, Morris on Riewoldt and Hargrave on Koschitzke. Our defence and accountability has been a positive on what has been an indifferent start to the season so assuming we can hold Johnson and Welsh and at least break even in the midfield which looks stronger than last season we'll go a long way towards winning if even only one of the three has a big night.

 

[Frankencow]

Patrick Smith's article made a good case for Riewoldt at centre half back. The most important part is Charlie Gardiner's ability to take over Riewoldt's running up the ground imo. Would Riewoldt be wasted in a Waite-like role? For a long time I've been suggesting he should get a wing. I'd like Roo on one wing and Gilbert on the other. Tall wingmen are underestimated.

 

[Squizz]

Roo has knee tendonitis, and will be managed through the season. Playing on the wing would undoubtedly flare things up.

We have someone who could easily have been All-Australian CHB (Sam F), and Goddard/Maguire will return to bolster the defence. No need to even consider Roo for this role.

Kosi just needs to have a think about his role in conjunction with the coaches. He can't go to every contest (drawing his man in to the contest), and needs to use his bulk to screen for others (which I have never seen him do).

It's unfortunate for him, as his comments in pre-season showed he had really set himself for FF, and the return of Fraser has affected his "mojo".

 

[Sir Robert]

Patrick Smith's article made a good case for Riewoldt at centre half back. The most important part is Charlie Gardiner's ability to take over Riewoldt's running up the ground imo. Would Riewoldt be wasted in a Waite-like role? For a long time I've been suggesting he should get a wing. I'd like Roo on one wing and Gilbert on the other. Tall wingmen are underestimated.

I also think Roo on a wing and BJ on the other wing would be a sure fire winner. Both are great overhead and both can kick really well in play.

On a wing Roo wouldn't have to be 'as' accountable... So he could cut off passes coming into the backline.

I spose BJ as a lead up forward is also another option (instead of chucky g), as BJ can roost a ball like no-one else in the team can!

 

[Frankencow]

Roo has knee tendonitis, and will be managed through the season. Playing on the wing would undoubtedly flare things up.

We have someone who could easily have been All-Australian CHB (Sam F), and Goddard/Maguire will return to bolster the defence. No need to even consider Roo for this role.

Kosi just needs to have a think about his role in conjunction with the coaches. He can't go to every contest (drawing his man in to the contest), and needs to use his bulk to screen for others (which I have never seen him do).

It's unfortunate for him, as his comments in pre-season showed he had really set himself for FF, and the return of Fraser has affected his "mojo".

Max and Goose are pretty injury prone back there though, and Goddard lacks the height. BJ will never be a key position player.

 

[Squizz]

Goddard is actually the same height as Max and slightly taller than Goose!

Gilbo for mine will replace Max when the time comes (he is taller than all of the other defenders).

 

[Frankencow]

Goddard is actually the same height as Max and slightly taller than Goose!

Gilbo for mine will replace Max when the time comes (he is taller than all of the other defenders).

Goddard's that tall? Certainly doesn't play tall either way. Gilbert is wasted at full back.

 

[35Harvs]

I could see Roo playing up the ground, on the wing if required, but think he'd be wasted at CHB, as Squizzy pointed out, Fisher has been doing a top job at that possie.

I think a bit more game time with all 3 forward will allow a more cohesive fwd structure than what we saw on the weekend.

 

[ChrisFooty]

Gilbert should play the wing. Wasted at full back. Gives away a lot of silly frees.

 

[Sir Robert]

I don't know why people keep saying Gilbert would be wasted at fullback.

He does give away a few frees however he can only learn from this by playing in the position.

How can someone be wasted playing as a KPP? If he is the best man to provide a contest I'd rather he did that than chase cheap kicks on the rebound.

 

[Frankencow]

I don't know why people keep saying Gilbert would be wasted at fullback.

He does give away a few frees however he can only learn from this by playing in the position.

How can someone be wasted playing as a KPP? If he is the best man to provide a contest I'd rather he did that than chase cheap kicks on the rebound.

Simple. The job of the fullback is not necessarily to get the ball themselves or run it up the ground or anything, it is merely to stop the full forward kicking goals. Gilbert is far too good to be used in a purely negative way like this. He needs to be up the ground, running with the ball and winning his own ball in positions where he can be damaging. He has the pace, height and athletic ability to be damaging on a wing, and knows how to find the ball. The alternative is that he follows someone like Lloyd around all night, where the best thing he can do is punch the ball away. It's important to do, yeah, but guys like Max and Mick Martyn and Spud Frawley were never going to play anywhere else. Gilbert has skills, ability and talent to allow him to be more valuable up the ground, and these skills would be wasted at full back. He may have the potential to be a 7/10 defender, but I think he can be at least an 8-9/10 wingman.

 

[Squizz]

Bit off thread, but Gilbo reminds me of a younger Max - tall, quick, desperate (and not such a great kick!!!). You need closing speed to play full-back these days, and that's why Max has been a ripper for so many years. We are building a good on-ball division, and Gilbo is learning the trade down back. He will get there.

 

[WASaintsFan08]

have king kosi and gardiner rotate through forward line and midfield and bench.... itll drive them nut having to find the right defender every time

and might just open up gehrig and riewoldt a bit more with their coaches mind always having to switch to the constant changes

hope schnieder can kick a bit straighter because hes bringing the best out in milne if they can put a 6+ goal partnership.. itll go a long way too winning us the game especially if riewoldt doesnt fire..

the bullies are worried about their defensive height so they need too seperate the 3 talls so each has a clear chance at marking..
maybe keeping gehrig in goal square 1 on 1
and keeping riewoldt and kosi away from eachother so both get a clear jump (lets face it them 2 near the ball together is a train wreck.. both go in hard for the mark)

 

[Persevering Saint]

The fact is that King kicked 2 more goals than Kosi on the weekend, and Kosi ended up in the ruck to see if he could do something, ANYTHING. I think you might be making a fair prediction WA. I am less and less convinced of Kosi's FF potential every week - which is really disappointing, because I expected he'd rock.

 

[mick13]

Yeah same, I was talking Kosi up massively when G retired...

 

[Saint4Life]

I think Roo and Kosi should be playing just behind the 50m arch so that when players actually get it around the HBF they have an option to kick it long to one of them on either side of the ground , or they can simply run it down the middle and hit G in the forward 50.

Kosi and Roo should take one side each (LHF and RHF). Leave G-Train some space for a lead in the 50m arch and it also gives space for milne and schnider to crumb/get the ball.

It wasn't working with all 3 in a big cluster with the long bombs. 6v6 is too much.

 

[Sir Robert]

I think Roo and Kosi should be playing just behind the 50m arch so that when players actually get it around the HBF they have an option to kick it long to one of them on either side of the ground , or they can simply run it down the middle and hit G in the forward 50.

Kosi and Roo should take one side each (LHF and RHF). Leave G-Train some space for a lead in the 50m arch and it also gives space for milne and schnider to crumb/get the ball.

It wasn't working with all 3 in a big cluster with the long bombs. 6v6 is too much.

Yeah agree with a lot of what you just said.
I reckon Kosi and G should both be in the square tho. G is a lead up forward. If Kosi blocks G can make a lead... Whereas if the lead is cut off straight to the hot spot for Kosi to create some carnage.

Roo should be leading up the ground a bit. Feeding it in from 60ish.
Worked well in 2004...

 

[Squizz]

Yeah agree with a lot of what you just said.
I reckon Kosi and G should both be in the square tho. G is a lead up forward. If Kosi blocks G can make a lead... Whereas if the lead is cut off straight to the hot spot for Kosi to create some carnage.

Roo should be leading up the ground a bit. Feeding it in from 60ish.
Worked well in 2004...

I totally agree with this, but Fraser does not do multiple leads as you'd want a FF to do, Rooey's got knee soreness which keeps him closer to goal, and Kosi doesn't block (Riewoldt was about the only one doing this type of work).

 

[Speck]

Gehrig and Kosi can lead out from the square, usually different ways but sometimes they could go the same way to free up space for other players to get the ball on the other side.

Roo needs to play from 40 to 70 (Almost CHF to Wing). He can recieve the ball at about 60 and feed it off to Gehrig, Kosi or another player as I suggested previously.