Fremantle debacle

[Papa Smurf]

All the carry on over the past couple of days seems to be centred around Fremantle breaching salary cap rules and the fines that they have received.

IMO the AFL have to have a good hard look at themselves as well.

It is an absolute disgrace that a footballer of Fabian Francis' ability could be left without a club by the end of today. His life has been turned upside down.

Not only should the Fremantle Football Club pay the price, but the AFL too must have a good hard look at themselves. For they have implemented a draft that clearly has many flaws. Interesting to see if the AFL would have been a little more accomodating if the player in question was a Carey or a Lockett.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Originally posted by Papa Smurf
All the carry on over the past couple of days seems to be centred around Fremantle breaching salary cap rules and the fines that they have received.

IMO the AFL have to have a good hard look at themselves as well.

It is an absolute disgrace that a footballer of Fabian Francis' ability could be left without a club by the end of today. His life has been turned upside down.

Not only should the Fremantle Football Club pay the price, but the AFL too must have a good hard look at themselves. For they have implemented a draft that clearly has many flaws. Interesting to see if the AFL would have been a little more accomodating if the player in question was a Carey or a Lockett.

I was disappointed that Fabian couldn't be picked up by Fremantle as stated in the other thread. They are a struggling club and need all the help they can get. We can only hope the players they have now can take them off the bottom which I think will happen. I'm making a big statement, you heard it from me, remember this post.

Fremantle will make the finals in 2002 and possibly the Semi Final.

 

[Portia]

The help that Fremantle need is the same help that a spoiled kid needs. They need to learn to look after their problems themselves, and not become dependent on handouts like they have been so far.

 

[Balip]

Please clarify what handouts Freo have received?

 

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

Well said Papa

 

[Portia]

One year of entry concessions.
An additional year of entry concessions
#2 pick in 1998
3 top 5 picks in 1999
2 top 5 picks in 2001

For a highest result of, what was it, 12th?

Why would the AFL think that letting Freo break the rules to include Francis in their squad would necessarily improve Fremantle as a club when everything thats been thrown at Freo in the past has been for nothing?

It sets an ugly precedent, to benefit a club that is already looked after by the AFL. Just because they're struggling, it doesn't mean that letting them break the rules is a good idea.

 

[FreoRules]

What a load of garbage Porthos. By all means Fremantle have received extra draft picks but no more than any other team that has failed to win a lot of games. That is an AFL decision, not a Fremantle decision. i agree about the extra pick with the Jeff White saga but the entry concessions were a joke and you also have to look at the manipulation of the draft by Port themselves. After SA won the TAC Cup that year, and it was the year that Fremantle entered the competition, all the top players withdrew from the draft on Port entering the league the following season. So it is difficult when the best players in the country do not enter the draft and are all taken by Port the following year so your call rings a tad hollow.

There is no doubt that Fremantle have to pick up their own problems and I believe that they are putting things into place. There is no doubt that Fremantle could have selected Francis this year but Andrew "Teflon" ******** continues to find ways to cover his mistakes by banning Fremantle from the pre-season draft this year.

 

[RacerX]

Originally posted by Porthos
One year of entry concessions.
An additional year of entry concessions
#2 pick in 1998
3 top 5 picks in 1999
2 top 5 picks in 2001

For a highest result of, what was it, 12th?

Pretty weak list of "handouts" you've got there Porthos. No matter how you construe it I don't see Freo receiving preferential treatment from the AFL. Current events would seem to suggest that the AFL is doing the exact opposite.

 

[Portia]

The AFL gave Port one set of concessions, which we used, and used well. When we get given something we don't throw it away.

Fremantle do. They have great draft picks, btu still aren't a well-run football club. Would letting Fremantle have Francis make a significant enough difference to the structure, management and future of Fremantle for the AFL to think about breaking the rules to get him there?

Everything up until now says, no. This is the point of my response.

Fremantle have had more top 5 draft picks than any other club in the league in the past 7 years, and what have they done with them?

Is it worth the AFL breaking the rules to give Freo something they shouldn't have, when they a) have a track record of fouling up good things they get for nothing and b) it won't actually make them a more stable or better managed club.

And now to laugh at your post.

What a load of garbage Porthos.

Really?

That is an AFL decision, not a Fremantle decision.

No one is denying that.

but the entry concessions were a joke and you also have to look at the manipulation of the draft by Port themselves.

The entry concessions were a joke? Two years of entry concessions? A joke? No other team got such generous concessions.

After SA won the TAC Cup that year

The what? Isn't that the Vic/NSW/Tas u18 competition?

, and it was the year that Fremantle entered the competition

Fremantle's first year was 1995. SA won the TAC Cup in 1996.

all the top players withdrew from the draft on Port entering the league the following season. So it is difficult when the best players in the country do not enter the draft and are all taken by Port the following year so your call rings a tad hollow.

How does this affect my call in any way whatsoever? And I believe WA, Vic Metro and Vic Country teams were absolutely entirely untouched. Also, its no doubt counterbalanced by the likelihood that WA players stayed in the WAFL so as to be a part of Fremantle's foundation side, yes?

Genius.

 

[RacerX]

Porthos,

You may think your argument is genius but you are just coming across as another Port supporter grumpy at Freo because we supposedly got better entry concessions. For a start I would argue that WC and the Crows got a much better deal coming into the AFL, if only because they had the support of the good part of a whole state from day 1 - not to mention that WC were fielding what could have been a state of origin side obtained thru generous entry concessions.

What difference Francis would have made to Freo is not worth arguing. The real issue is the AFL preventing Freo from drafting Francis, firstly they claimed Freo had not allowed enough for injuries which has not been proved either way. When Freo threatened court action to resolve the conflict the AFL changed tack; at the last moment they excluded Freo from the draft as a punishment for last seasons salary cap transgression.

This later punishment is intriguing because it came from out of the blue and coincidentally prevents Freo from taking the AFL to court. It appears to me that the AFL has no separation of powers between those making the rules and those enforcing the rules. There also doesn't seem to be much transparency in the AFLs internal workings and they want to keep it that way.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by RacerX
Porthos,

You may think your argument is genius but you are just coming across as another Port supporter grumpy at Freo because we supposedly got better entry concessions.

I'll let you know when I'm worried about how you perceive me.

For a start I would argue that WC and the Crows got a much better deal coming into the AFL, if only because they had the support of the good part of a whole state from day 1 - not to mention that WC were fielding what could have been a state of origin side obtained thru generous entry concessions.

Righto. Did they then languish at the bottom of the ladder for 7 years? Did they throw the concessions back at the AFL, thus proving their incompetence? Did they look the gift horse in the mouth? No.

Is this my point? Yes.

What difference Francis would have made to Freo is not worth arguing.

So why are you even responding?

The real issue is the AFL preventing Freo from drafting Francis, firstly they claimed Freo had not allowed enough for injuries which has not been proved either way.

Check me on this....doesn't -every- club have to allow the same amount of money for injury payments? Essentially, isn't every club subject to the exact same rule?

When Freo threatened court action to resolve the conflict the AFL changed tack; at the last moment they excluded Freo from the draft as a punishment for last seasons salary cap transgression.

You don't know your facts. They fined Freo $50,000 odd for the 2001 transgression, took away their 3rd round pick in the 2002 National Draft, and are holding an addition $20,000 + 1st & 2nd round picks as a suspended sentence.

The exclusion from the draft today was on entirely separate grounds. It is still because Fremantle did not leave sufficient room under their cap. I guess I'll need to note again that it is the same amount as every other club needs to keep free. Allowing Freo to **** with that is allowing them to break the rules, and sets a precedent for other clubs.

This later punishment is intriguing because it came from out of the blue

Actually, the way I read it, the AFL warned Freo once, Freo said they were right, then the AFL said "no, you're not" and we're in the situation today.

Now for a simple analogy...hopefully you can follow it.

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Mum is generous to her children. When they're down in the dumps, she gives them a treat, and most of them cheer up, except for little Freolina. Mum seems to give Freolina lots of treats, but Freolina keeps wasting them, and is still down in the dumps.

The other kids are getting jealous of little Freolina because she's getting a lot of their treats, but she just throws them away (or trades to smarter kids).

Is it a good idea for Mum to set to give Freo even -more- treats, when the quite sizeable portion Freolina has received before have done practically no good at all? No.

Should she be thinking about something more than some superficial help? Maybe she could try leaving her alone for a while? Yes, that could be wise. More treats doesn't look at all likely to work, and could easily undo the work she's done with the other kids.
----------

I hope you followed that.

 

[RacerX]

Originally posted by Porthos

Actually, the way I read it, the AFL warned Freo once, Freo said they were right, then the AFL said "no, you're not" and we're in the situation today.

I don't think you have grasped what actually happened. Let me adjust your reading to a more accurate description:
the AFL warned Freo once, Freo said they were right, then the AFL said "don't question us we are the AFL". Freo threatens court action to settle the issue. The AFL suddenly comes up with a punishment for a 54K salary cap breach during the previous season that includes no pre-season drafting for Freo and no possibility of court action.

As for you point about Freo being banned from the pre-season draft because of 2002 salary cap issues, you are a bit behind the times. Fremantle were finally prevented from participating in the pre-season draft because of the 2001 salary cap breach. This was the 2nd time the AFL banned freo from the pre-season draft, the first time was relating to the 2002 TPP numbers - but as I mentioned this initial attempt to ban Freo could have been taken to the courts.

I'm confused about your analogy though, how do you equate being banned from a pre-season draft to "Freolina" being given treats from the AFL?

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by RacerX
As for you point about Freo being banned from the pre-season draft because of 2002 salary cap issues, you are a bit behind the times. Fremantle were finally prevented from participating in the pre-season draft because of the 2001 salary cap breach. This was the 2nd time the AFL banned freo from the pre-season draft, the first time was relating to the 2002 TPP numbers - but as I mentioned this initial attempt to ban Freo could have been taken to the courts.

True enough....the AFL speeding its decision up to suit that circumstance is a bit dodgy. Of course, I seem to recall previous salary cap breachers have forfeited a preseason pick as well, so its not out of the blue in that respect.

I'm confused about your analogy though, how do you equate being banned from a pre-season draft to "Freolina" being given treats from the AFL?

Where a `treat' is being allowed to muck with their salary cap in a way that no club is allowed to. Something good that they couldn't normally do. A treat.