Give It Time

[_RT_]

Thought is would be interesting to bring up the team that played under Wallace Round 1 2005 and the team that played last week against the Swans just so some people can get an idea as to what it is Wallace is actually trying to do.

Round 1 2005 Line Up:
B: Chaffey Gaspar Newman
HB: A.Kellaway HallJ.Bowden
C: Campbell Coughlan Tivendale
HF: Pettifer Simmonds Deledio
F: Brown Richardson Krakouer
R: Knobel Johnson Tuck
I: Graham Roach Hyde Jackson
* Players no longer on the list. This side lost by 62 points. Chock full of experience as that team was they got pummelled that day.

Round 17 2007 Line Up:
B: King Thursfield McGuane
HB: J.Bowden Polak Moore
C: Raines Johnson Newman
HF: Pettifer Hughes Riewoldt
F: Brown Richo Edwards
R: Simmonds Tuck Foley
I: Pattison Connors Tambling Krakouer
* Players that have been added to the list or side since that first game under Wallace. This team is full of young kids trying to make their way and got beaten by 66 points.

History shows that Wallace's took that 2005 side to a 7-2 record a few weeks later. But that team was full of experienced players and they had the ability to turn it around quickly but where did it get us? No finals appearances just another 2 years of close but no cigar.

This current 07 list is getting beaten rather easily in most games, however it must be remembered that it is full of kids just starting out in their careers. Time that we had some faith that Wallace's plan is not just for a bit of short term gain to make himself out to be some sort of Messiah, instead he is actually trying to get the club a solid foundation for not just his time at the club but for the next 2-3 coaches that follow him as well. A good strong group of kids that we can build and work with to form a team that will bring Richmond an era of success not just the once a decade finals side we have had in the past.

Ask yourself the following questions and give honest answers:
Would you prefer Richmond throw everything Wallace is trying to achieve away to have one year of success only so you could feel good about the club for one year?
or
Would you prefer to suffer a couple of more seasons of pain to see Richmond be in a position to be a successful side for 5+ years where you can feel good about the club every year?

I know what I would prefer, how about you.

 

[emperor]

keep the logic coming RT....this board could make one go insane otherwise

 

[_RT_]

keep the logic coming RT....this board could make one go insane otherwise

Somebody has to, came home last night and read the 2-3 Sack Wallace threads and could not believe the fact that so many want to simply repeat history and get rid of another coach halfway through his plan.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Wallace promising GF's or flags when he was first appointed. I recall him saying it would take 5 years to turn the club around both on and off the field and that was his initial aim. I think the talk about finals appearances came about after the great start they had under Wallace in 05. Then when Brown went down they didn't really know how long it would take for him to get back to full fitness. So Wallace planned for a possible finals berth and hindered the development of a couple of kids because of that desire to make the finals. Even this year after getting so close last year he again had finals as a possibility only to see that plan shot down before it even got going.

2008 is going to be the biggest year in the history of the RFC. 100 years in the VFL/AFL and I can see that Wallace is putting in place a plan that will see this club give the year one hell of a shake. Maybe they wont make the finals but I get the feeling other teams will be looking at us and thinking we are the team that is next most likely to break through.

The foundation is there for a very strong and successful future now is the time to start building the rest of the structure that will see us able to stand up and be a force in the AFL again. Take a good look at the past few weeks, Wallace has started to make the tough decisions about players on our list and has over looked them for kids. Tivendale, Krakouer, Kingsley & Hartigan have all been given chances to show they deserve to be here next year and beyond yet have been overlooked in recent weeks as Wallace turns to Hughes, Riewoldt, Connors & Graham(debut this week) amongst others. Through all the chat that has been on this board over the past 3-4 weeks and looking at things with both eyes open I have started to get a feeling about this group of kids that I have not had for many a year and that is this group can be the one that returns this once feared club to the top.

As the signature says:
In my time I've seen Richmond be feared and envied by all.

I will see those days return and soon.

 

[Haggard H]

RT, I see thread headings like "sack Wallace" or "We need Meeson" and I just keep looking for something worth reading. I see a heading like "Give It Time" and it actually cheers me up.

Don't know where you got the team list from Rd 1, 2005, but I'd be even more interested to see the line-up from Rd 22, 2004. People carry on about Clarkson completely rebuilding the Hawks in that time but Wallace has actually brought in more new players than any other club in the past three years.

As your signature says ...

In my time I've seen Richmond be feared and envied by all.

I will see those days return and soon.

 

[emperor]

Somebody has to, came home last night and read the 2-3 Sack Wallace threads and could not believe the fact that so many want to simply repeat history and get rid of another coach halfway through his plan.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Wallace promising GF's or flags when he was first appointed. I recall him saying it would take 5 years to turn the club around both on and off the field and that was his initial aim. I think the talk about finals appearances came about after the great start they had under Wallace in 05. Then when Brown went down they didn't really know how long it would take for him to get back to full fitness. So Wallace planned for a possible finals berth and hindered the development of a couple of kids because of that desire to make the finals. Even this year after getting so close last year he again had finals as a possibility only to see that plan shot down before it even got going.

2008 is going to be the biggest year in the history of the RFC. 100 years in the VFL/AFL and I can see that Wallace is putting in place a plan that will see this club give the year one hell of a shake. Maybe they wont make the finals but I get the feeling other teams will be looking at us and thinking we are the team that is next most likely to break through.

The foundation is there for a very strong and successful future now is the time to start building the rest of the structure that will see us able to stand up and be a force in the AFL again. Take a good look at the past few weeks, Wallace has started to make the tough decisions about players on our list and has over looked them for kids. Tivendale, Krakouer, Kingsley & Hartigan have all been given chances to show they deserve to be here next year and beyond yet have been overlooked in recent weeks as Wallace turns to Hughes, Riewoldt, Connors & Graham(debut this week) amongst others. Through all the chat that has been on this board over the past 3-4 weeks and looking at things with both eyes open I have started to get a feeling about this group of kids that I have not had for many a year and that is this group can be the one that returns this once feared club to the top.

As the signature says:
In my time I've seen Richmond be feared and envied by all.

I will see those days return and soon.

testify!

 

[_RT_]

RT, I see thread headings like "sack Wallace" or "We need Meeson" and I just keep looking for something worth reading. I see a heading like "Give It Time" and it actually cheers me up.

Don't know where you got the team list from Rd 1, 2005, but I'd be even more interested to see the line-up from Rd 22, 2004. People carry on about Clarkson completely rebuilding the Hawks in that time but Wallace has actually brought in more new players than any other club in the past three years.

As your signature says ...

In my time I've seen Richmond be feared and envied by all.

I will see those days return and soon.

Ask and you shall recieve Round 22 2004:
B: Chaffey Gaspar Jackson
HB: Blumfield Hall Kellaway
C: Campbell Coughlan Tivendale
HF: Nicholls Richo Weller
F: Brown Schulz Krakouer
R: Marsh J.Bowden Rodan
I: Hartigan Raines Fleming Hyde.

Others who played that year that Wallace removed: Dragacevic, Fletcher, Houlihan, Ottens, Zantuck. Yet he had a list the following year with that many changes on course for a finals spot until Brown went down. That is what annoys the crap out of me about these people who post that Wallace can't coach, you don't add 10-12 players to a list of 40 in one off season and have them sitting as high as second on the ladder if you have no clue.

 

[bluespooner]

Apparently, its all about 2011 remember.

Despite Walla$e's miraculous salary and the run he gets from Richmond people he sure aren't performing miracles in the wins department.

 

[Haggard H]

You da man, RT.

Unless you're a girl.

10 of that 22 are gone already, with another 3 to 5 at the end of the year. Not bad, considering that was the 22 considered good enough to get a game.

 

[_RT_]

Apparently, its all about 2011 remember.

Despite Walla$e's miraculous salary and the run he gets from Richmond people he sure aren't performing miracles in the wins department.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25

Click on the link above and click your heels 3 times and repeat "There is not place like home". Magically you will return home.

 

[Haggard H]

Apparently, its all about 2011 remember.

Despite Walla$e's miraculous salary and the run he gets from Richmond people he sure aren't performing miracles in the wins department.

I don't know about his salary, except it's a whole lot less than Pagan was getting. But then I suppose Denis deserved the big dollars for those preseason trophies, you know, the ones where we keep getting told that the Blues are the real deal now - no more "false dawns".

Hey RT, is there a site for those old team sheets or have you kept the Footy Records?

 

[_RT_]

I don't know about his salary, except it's a whole lot less than Pagan was getting. But then I suppose Denis deserved the big dollars for those preseason trophies, you know, the ones where we keep getting told that the Blues are the real deal now - no more "false dawns".

Hey RT, is there a site for those old team sheets or have you kept the Footy Records?

I used http://www.finalsiren.com/ to get those teams. Pretty good site allows you to go back and see stats for games as far back as 1993.

 

[Haggard H]

I used http://www.finalsiren.com/ to get those teams. Pretty good site allows you to go back and see stats for games as far back as 1993.

I use finalsiren to do my weekly Tambling v Roughead comparison. Obviously I need to explore it a bit more.

 

[bluespooner]

Its just that a lot of Richmond supporters told me when Walla$e got appointed in 2004 that they would be regular finalists circa 2006-2008 and premiers in 2009.

Now just to let me understand this Richmond supporters were suggesting in 2004 when Walla$e was appointed it would take to 2006-2008 to become competitve; Walla$e says 2011 is when the tigers will start to become competitive after he personally has made a complete balls-up of list management; and now your saying tugger supporters need to give it time.

You think just like Walla$e, in that you must believe everyone is totally gullible.

P.S. I enjoyed your post about how football can't be assessed in terms of winning. Well you would say that wouldn't you.

 

[peter_ford]

Its just that a lot of Richmond supporters told me when Walla$e got appointed in 2004 that they would be regular finalists circa 2006-2008 and premiers in 2009.

Now just to let me understand this Richmond supporters were suggesting in 2004 when Walla$e was appointed it would take to 2006-2008 to become competitve; Walla$e says 2011 is when the tigers will start to become competitive after he personally has made a complete balls-up of list management; and now your saying tugger supporters need to give it time.

You think just like Walla$e, in that you must believe everyone is totally gullible.

P.S. I enjoyed your post about how football can't be assessed in terms of winning. Well you would say that wouldn't you.

i dont think wallace expected such poor recruitments, with better picks i think richmond could have easily been at hawthorn's stage of development.

 

[Calcium Man]

i dont think wallace expected such poor recruitments, with better picks i think richmond could have easily been at hawthorn's stage of development.

Its not Hawthorns picks from 2004 that have them so high. Its the 2001 draft. with some help from the 2 previous drafts. Which is exactly the same as Geelong.

 

[_RT_]

Its just that a lot of Richmond supporters told me when Walla$e got appointed in 2004 that they would be regular finalists circa 2006-2008 and premiers in 2009.

Now just to let me understand this Richmond supporters were suggesting in 2004 when Walla$e was appointed it would take to 2006-2008 to become competitve; Walla$e says 2011 is when the tigers will start to become competitive after he personally has made a complete balls-up of list management; and now your saying tugger supporters need to give it time.

You think just like Walla$e, in that you must believe everyone is totally gullible.

P.S. I enjoyed your post about how football can't be assessed in terms of winning. Well you would say that wouldn't you.

Got a link to show where Wallace said the things you suggest. As I said earlier his statement when he got the job was that it would take 5 years to turn the club around. How do you get they will be regular finalists circa 2006-2008 from that? Perhaps you are confusing it with Pagan's plan after the Blues had won the 05 Pre Season Cup.

As you yourself pointed out it was the fans who were talking up the chances of Richmond being finalists/competitive in the years 06-08 when Wallace was signed in late 04. Wallace gave a honest assessment at the start of this year to suggest where he saw the Tigers in terms of their development. Hindsight suggests that was not the right thing to have done but he at least came out and spoke the truth so how people can suggest Wallace spins crap is beyond me.

 

[The Dice Man]

This current 07 list is getting beaten rather easily in most games, however it must be remembered that it is full of kids just starting out in their careers. Time that we had some faith that Wallace's plan is not just for a bit of short term gain to make himself out to be some sort of Messiah, instead he is actually trying to get the club a solid foundation for not just his time at the club but for the next 2-3 coaches that follow him as well. A good strong group of kids that we can build and work with to form a team that will bring Richmond an era of success not just the once a decade finals side we have had in the past.

That's probably the best paragraph Ive read on the Tiger forum in the last 10 weeks.

Everyone is telling me how Richmond have to sack Wallace... even my uncle who is a dyed in the wool supporter being there for all the 60s and 70s Grand Finals and the pain of the 80s and 90s.. yet still believes the answer is sacking the coach.

**** that!

If we want to keep repeating the mistakes of the past, then we are also doomed to the same failures.

 

[Goldust]

Ask and you shall recieve Round 22 2004:
B: Chaffey Gaspar Jackson
HB: Blumfield Hall Kellaway
C: Campbell Coughlan Tivendale
HF: Nicholls Richo Weller
F: Brown Schulz Krakouer
R: Marsh J.Bowden Rodan
I: Jackson Raines Fleming Hyde.

Others who played that year that Wallace removed: Dragacevic, Fletcher, Houlihan, Ottens, Zantuck. Yet he had a list the following year with that many changes on course for a finals spot until Brown went down. That is what annoys the crap out of me about these people who post that Wallace can't coach, you don't add 10-12 players to a list of 40 in one off season and have them sitting as high as second on the ladder if you have no clue.

F*** me. That line-up would be flat out beating Werribee Centrals or Doveton!!!!!

Though RT, can't believe we had two Jacksons playing that day!!!

 

[_RT_]

F*** me. That line-up would be flat out beating Werribee Centrals or Doveton!!!!!

Though RT, can't believe we had two Jacksons playing that day!!!

Fixed it up I missed out on Hartigan.

 

[Ah Cheung]

Ask and you shall recieve Round 22 2004:
B: Chaffey Gaspar Jackson
HB: Blumfield Hall Kellaway
C: Campbell Coughlan Tivendale
HF: Nicholls Richo Weller
F: Brown Schulz Krakouer
R: Marsh J.Bowden Rodan
I: Hartigan Raines Fleming Hyde.

Others who played that year that Wallace removed: Dragacevic, Fletcher, Houlihan, Ottens, Zantuck. Yet he had a list the following year with that many changes on course for a finals spot until Brown went down. That is what annoys the crap out of me about these people who post that Wallace can't coach, you don't add 10-12 players to a list of 40 in one off season and have them sitting as high as second on the ladder if you have no clue.

Looking at this list from 2004 gave me chills....dunno wat Mr potato head was thinking...

 

[Colonel Matrix]

Never show me that 2004 side again

Nice thread though RT

 

[_RT_]

Looking at this list from 2004 gave me chills....dunno wat Mr potato head was thinking...

The thing that is even funnier is those potato heads that are now calling for Wallace saying he has taken us nowhere don't realise or have totally forgotten the mess Wallace had to start with.

Instead of focusing on the poor results of the last few weeks, they should be focusing on the good signs from the kids that have been brought into the side. While they may not be winning games for us at the moment, you get the feeling that when they do get the bodies physically ready for the demands of a full AFL season then we will see the best of them and the return of the RFC to the top of the AFL ladder.

 

[W. Smithers]

Ask and you shall recieve Round 22 2004:
B: Chaffey Gaspar Jackson
HB: Blumfield Hall Kellaway
C: Campbell Coughlan Tivendale
HF: Nicholls Richo Weller
F: Brown Schulz Krakouer
R: Marsh J.Bowden Rodan
I: Hartigan Raines Fleming Hyde.

No wonder Wallace wanted speed injected into the team. We had none.

 

[Roachy8]

The thing that is even funnier is those potato heads that are now calling for Wallace saying he has taken us nowhere don't realise or have totally forgotten the mess Wallace had to start with.

Instead of focusing on the poor results of the last few weeks, they should be focusing on the good signs from the kids that have been brought into the side. While they may not be winning games for us at the moment, you get the feeling that when they do get the bodies physically ready for the demands of a full AFL season then we will see the best of them and the return of the RFC to the top of the AFL ladder.

As usual, enjoying your work RT.
As the thread suggests... Give It Time
The trouble is, impatient, passionate supporters feel like they have been asked to wait, wait & then wait some more.
The difference this time is that we are re-building correctly & with some quality youth rather than regurgitated hacks or poor drafts.
When I look at the line up from last Saturday, with Jack & Cleve holding down key forward possies, (what 9 games between them) Thursty & McGuane holding down key spots in the back half, (less than 20 games between them) I don't mind some more short term pain.
Edwards, Connors in their first year + Lids & Foley & the others, I am happy enough under these circumstances to see out the coaches current contract.
Knee jerk reactions are only for jerks...