Expansion Gold Coast salary cap solution?

[Sttew]

I don't have a problem with Melbourne at all, just "fans" like you who throw stones from glass houses.

Maybe if you checked the facts, you'd know the Gold Coast/Queensland market has far more potential than a Tasmanian market ever could.

Where are these facts?

The Gold Coast has long had a reputation for being a sporting graveyard and Australia's sporting 'Bermuda Triangle'. It might be the 5th biggest population centre in Australia, but it is still an apathetic population when it comes to sport. How many sporting franchises have failed on the Gold Coast?

The AFL can keep propping up the GC Suns, but it hasn't changed the fact it still has a pathetic membership (roughly 15% higher than its inaugural year in 2011 with 16,000 members in 2020, and average crowds at home games steadily declining with an average of 11,500 in 2019 (19,000 in 2011). That's NRL stuff.

 

[Sttew]

This is a boring myth. Any team would struggle if they're not performing, regardless of the location. I'm sure plenty of Geelong fans will stop showing up once you reach the inevitable stint at the bottom end of the ladder.

Myth? What about Gold Coast Blaze (basketball), Gold Coast United (soccer), Gold Coast Seagulls / Chargers (rugby league), Gold Coast Gladiators (rugby league), Gold Coast Aces (rugby union), Gold Coast Rollers (basketball), Gold Coast Cougars (baseball), Gold Coast-Tweed Giants (rugby league)?

It cannot be mere coincidence or bad luck that everyone of the above teams based on the Gold Coast have failed.

 

[demondavey]

This is a boring myth. Any team would struggle if they're not performing, regardless of the location. I'm sure plenty of Geelong fans will stop showing up once you reach the inevitable stint at the bottom end of the ladder.


This will all change as soon as they start performing. If the Bulldogs can go from the literal garbage dump in 2014 to 6th in 2015, nothing is impossible for the Gold Coast.

That being said, they should think about an image revamp. As I said in the other thread, get rid of the "Suns", the McDonalds colours and the song.

You had an established supporter base. Gold Coast do not. You’d think that after some time, new coaching and some star players that the membership would have picked up. It isn’t a boring myth if you check out the history of sporting teams up there.

Geelong supporters will not stop going when the drop off happens. No chance. The problem is that they don’t show any signs of performing. 11 years and not a thing has changed. It’s an eleven year money pit.

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

There was no way Melbourne was going to fold. A club after its inception that’s literally done nothing for 11 years in a non footy state whilst being handed millions upon millions just doesn’t seem to me to be a viable option. If they can sort it out, good on them.

Your members voted themselves out of existence dude.

 

[TedDougChris]

Myth? What about Gold Coast Blaze (basketball), Gold Coast United (soccer), Gold Coast Seagulls / Chargers (rugby league), Gold Coast Gladiators (rugby league), Gold Coast Aces (rugby union), Gold Coast Rollers (basketball), Gold Coast Cougars (baseball), Gold Coast-Tweed Giants (rugby league)?

It cannot be mere coincidence or bad luck that everyone of the above teams based on the Gold Coast have failed.

to be fair, if we are going through that list we need to remove clubs that either play non-Australian sports or are run by idiots or both. the market for RL teams in that part of the world that aren't called the Bronco's isnt that great either.... Nor would the behaviour of the players do much for their profile.... Union is a dying sport currently, except for NZ and a few countries in Europe.

GC had less concessions and were less well setup (mostly their own fault) initially than GWS. Given it's taken some clubs 20 years plus to even win a final - let alone a flag, I think we need to give them time to get it right. It's critical that they actually start developing their talent correctly (jury is out here), but hopefully they can retain their key players and start to improve.

Not sold on their recruiting, think they are going the wrong way about it - so I'd overhaul that. Some luck with injuries wouldn't hurt.

In terms of whether we should continue to throw money at them, I suspect the AFL looks at the figures and assesses the value and says it all adds up.

 

[Strange Cat]

to be fair, if we are going through that list we need to remove clubs that either play non-Australian sports or are run by idiots or both. the market for RL teams in that part of the world that aren't called the Bronco's isnt that great either.... Nor would the behaviour of the players do much for their profile.... Union is a dying sport currently, except for NZ and a few countries in Europe.

GC had less concessions and were less well setup (mostly their own fault) initially than GWS. Given it's taken some clubs 20 years plus to even win a final - let alone a flag, I think we need to give them time to get it right. It's critical that they actually start developing their talent correctly (jury is out here), but hopefully they can retain their key players and start to improve.

Not sold on their recruiting, think they are going the wrong way about it - so I'd overhaul that. Some luck with injuries wouldn't hurt.

In terms of whether we should continue to throw money at them, I suspect the AFL looks at the figures and assesses the value and says it all adds up.

False

they traded out a bunch of their picks to GWS from memory in the early year

 

[pugsville]

Because they're non-afl states that don't play footy, the academies don't churn out star after star, they have Heeney and mills from their only, who have the lions got? There's no way Vic clubs should have academies

I's' substantial unfair advantage.

 

[Billy ray]

False

Sigh

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Your members voted themselves out of existence dude.

The Demons were the Brisbane equivalent of the Bears-Lions merger in the proposed Dees-Hawks merger. It was Hawthorn that was going to cease to exist.

 

[Scotty_222]

Haven’t helped yourselves delisting a good player in Lyons and and pushing jack Martin to the draft failing to get anything in return stupid incompetent decisions like these haven’t helped

Would you be paying Jack Martin his current contract value on his current output?
Players and coaches always will disagree and move on.
it’s not the first time and it won’t be the last.
Lyon and Dew didn’t see eye to eye.

 

[HPKS]

Calculate all the third party deals in the traditional states then average them out & allow GC to pay above the cap what the average is.

 

[TedDougChris]

False

they traded out a bunch of their picks to GWS from memory in the early year

As an additional concession to the GWS Giants, a MiniDraft was established, allowing access to 17 year old players from across the nation. The minidraft was ran in 2011 and 2012. The Giants were provided with the first two picks in both of these, which they were forced to trade to other clubs in the competition.

So - the opposite of false is what you meant to say....

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Would you be paying Jack Martin his current contract value on his current output?
Players and coaches always will disagree and move on.
it’s not the first time and it won’t be the last.
Lyon and Dew didn’t see eye to eye.

Have no problem with the suns not wanting to over pay to keep Martin but you get a trade done like a professional club and get something decent in return. As for Lyons he was a decent player when at the suns and has flourished into a very good player since leaving that must tell you something about dew as a coach

 

[Blue1980]

They have one bad game and suddenly there are ways to prop up the Gold Coast.

They could easily beat us this week, they beat Richmond and GWS in Vic a month ago.

 

[LittleG]

The problem with a team of high draft picks, is that they all want to be paid at a premium rate really early in their careers. Giving them more early picks OR more Cap Space will just keep this problem occurring. Continually giving will make them a club that feels entitled to support and they won’t make the hard decisions they need to. Clubs need to be made to stand on their own two feet.
Now, before you get stuck into my club for taking handouts…. IF we had a fair fixture and fair market exposure, we wouldn’t have ever needed anything.


IF we have to help, a better solution is to provide an increase in their soft-cap (coaches & support staff). Focus your efforts in recruiting really good coaches, fitness staff, off-field facilities, scouts, etc. This will make a much bigger impact that anything else.

 

[Blue1980]

After you won the flag you fell out the 8 for two years. You had a decent year in 2015 but don’t kid yourself about 2016, you had a good month of football. Your performance was an outlier. Credit for getting it right at the right time of year but it’s not like you turned into a powerhouse. You may not even win it this year.

No idea why you’re potting Melbourne supporters. This is after all an open forum where anyone can have an opinion. 3 coaches in and the Suns are so far off top 8 after 11 years in a non football state with zero leadership and development evident. I am not sure without AFL assistance how they’ll manage to cope if they play 3-4 games of decent footy then get comprehensively belted.

People need to get over this weird narrative the dogs scraped into the 8 and had a good month of football.

2016 was incredibly tight top 7, dogs won 15 games home and away season that year, which could sometimes get you top 4.

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

Yeah and how many supporters and members do they have there strong stable club

Gold Coast have nearly 20,000 members (about 18,900?). I think Freo will get around 50,000 based on previous years. I think the 'strong, stable clubs' moniker is time dependant rather than absolute i.e. over a long enough timeline all clubs will have boom and bust periods. The Gold Coast 'bust' period at the moment coincides with their establishment - like most clubs.

You may recall St Kilda's early years when after merger with Prahran and joining the VFL, St Kilda lost 48 games straight. Since then St Kilda has gone from strength to strength to become a powerhouse of the AFL and I am sure that over a long enough time period, Gold Coast will achieve these lofty heights as well ...

 

[demondavey]

People need to get over this weird narrative the dogs scraped into the 8 and had a good month of football.

2016 was incredibly tight top 7, dogs won 15 games home and away season that year, which could sometimes get you top 4.

They won from outside the 4, it was an outlier. It’s been done once under the current top 8 system.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Gold Coast have nearly 20,000 members (about 18,900?). I think Freo will get around 50,000 based on previous years. I think the 'strong, stable clubs' moniker is time dependant rather than absolute i.e. over a long enough timeline all clubs will have boom and bust periods. The Gold Coast 'bust' period at the moment coincides with their establishment - like most clubs.

You may recall St Kilda's early years when after merger with Prahran and joining the VFL, St Kilda lost 48 games straight. Since then. St Kilda has gone from strength to strength to become a powerhouse of the AFL and I am sure that over a long enough time period, Gold Coast will achieve these lofty heights as well ...

There’s no comparison whatsoever comparing current expansion clubs to ones that started 100 years ago when we started there was no on field cons sessions to help no financial help you were left to yourself hence why it took clubs so long to find there feet . Compared to what the suns and giants were given absolutely everything they could ask for to be competitive the situations couldn’t be more different

 

[Scotty_222]

Have no problem with the suns not wanting to over pay to keep Martin but you get a trade done like a professional club and get something decent in return. As for Lyons he was a decent player when at the suns and has flourished into a very good player since leaving that must tell you something about dew as a coach

We tried to get a first round pick for Martin, no player wanted to come and Carlton basically told him to go to the pre season draft as they were not giving up anything more than a second round pick.
Pretty poor as they were paying him over a million his first year and we weren’t going to use the second round draft pick as we had so many picks into use before it.
As for Lyon, he was an ok player with us. Had defensive deficiencies that he needed to work on. Just the same as why Fiorini and Brodie find it hard to get a game. It’s easy for them to accumulate the footy but when you let your direct opponent just stroll in off the stoppage and kick a goal from your poor defensive work you know why he’s not picking these types of players.
I’m glad Lyons found a spot and flourished, I would of loved to keep him.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

We tried to get a first round pick for Martin, no player wanted to come and Carlton basically told him to go to the pre season draft as they were not giving up anything more than a second round pick.
Pretty poor as they were paying him over a million his first year and we weren’t going to use the second round draft pick as we had so many picks into use before it.
As for Lyon, he was an ok player with us. Had defensive deficiencies that he needed to work on. Just the same as why Fiorini and Brodie find it hard to get a game. It’s easy for them to accumulate the footy but when you let your direct opponent just stroll in off the stoppage and kick a goal from your poor defensive work you know why he’s not picking these types of players.
I’m glad Lyons found a spot and flourished, I would of loved to keep him.

An early second rounder or future pick is a lot better then nothing at all plenty of clubs that don’t have great draft hands would happily trade something decent for one . All it did was show your players and other clubs that when push comes to shove you won’t redraft a player if pushed to the draft .

 

[Scotty_222]

An early second rounder or future pick is a lot better then nothing at all plenty of clubs that don’t have great draft hands would happily trade something decent for one . All it did was show your players and other clubs that when push comes to shove you won’t redraft a player if pushed to the draft .

I’d rather the club make the stand instead of getting a second rounder.
We can’t keep letting players walk for useless picks

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Correct, leadership and development is what they need.

Look at their coaching structure. I don't know that much about them but...
Dew - yes, I'm a fan, but seeing him p155ing on the streets?
Drummond - 6 years at North
Taesler - good record at the crows, leaving at the end of 17
Clarke - 3 years at carlton and 6 at Richmond before that, leaving in 2014/15
Francou - left after 18m...interesting

Not exactly the who's who of coaches coming from successful clubs.

Why weren't they into Mark Williams, Don Pyke, Harry Taylor, Brendon Lade, Brett Ratten?

If the AFL gave them extra soft cap rather than picks, they could have secured someone with a great resume.

It goes all the way to the top. They need to look at Cochrane and the board. Cochrane sounds off constantly about how hard they’re working and developing the region etc etc etc, maybe he needs to go and run AFL Queensland and do that job then. The footy club he’s in charge of is a mess.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Martin's being good for Carlton, really good first year, in typical Caton style they brought him back early this and he struggled, looks match fit now and had a good month of footy

Would you be paying Jack Martin his current contract value on his current output?
Players and coaches always will disagree and move on.
it’s not the first time and it won’t be the last.
Lyon and Dew didn’t see eye to eye.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

At least Cochrane makes a stand, you don't want your prez to be a pushover, he's good for the game, to have different views of the world

It goes all the way to the top. They need to look at Cochrane and the board. Cochrane sounds off constantly about how hard they’re working and developing the region etc etc etc, maybe he needs to go and run AFL Queensland and do that job then. The footy club he’s in charge of is a mess.