Discussion Grant Thomas mouthing off at Ross Lyon again.

[BrianSpeaking]

Oh Grant, the control freak who is no longer in control. The man who insisted we take Luke Ball over Chris Judd cant help himself. This is the man who boldy declared the Saints wouldnt make the 8 last year...


Big mistake ... Thomas criticises Ball over Ball 'fiasco' Michael Dodge
Former Saints coach Grant Thomas criticises Ross Lyon over Luke Ball
By Jon Ralph
March 06, 2010
Former St Kilda coach Grant Thomas has launched a scathing personal attack on Ross Lyon, labelling Luke Ball's departure from the club "a complete fiasco".

The pair have enjoyed an uneasy relationship since Thomas was sacked by the club, but he had previously stopped short of directly criticising Lyon.

In a highly provocative column Thomas let loose over the sacking of Andrew Lovett and trading of close friend Ball.

"I think St Kilda has done Lovett a favour, though Ross Lyon has been disappointingly evasive in not taking responsibility and the senior leaders at the club have also been confusing. Lyon runs the risk of tarnishing his high standing and has had a less than stellar pre-season," he said.

"The reasons for taking the decision are flimsy and fuzzy and to be perfectly honest I am still unaware of the basis for the decision taken."

Thomas believes Lyon was misguided to trade Ball in the first place and should clearly have won compensation if the Saints did move him on. "A complete fiasco in my opinion," he labelled the decision.

"Once again Ross has been evasive, quite defensive and touchy over this issue, all because of a lack of clarity.

"Unfortunately, some of the press releases have been conflicting and not in the best interests of the club or player involved.

"I consider it poor strategy to blame the exiting player especially when certain facts are ignored. I cannot possibly believe any of the hogwash I've heard.

"Luke Ball is an outstanding footballer and at a bare minimum should have attracted a prized draft choice.

"Obviously Ross's mentors and advisers have convinced him that he urgently requires outside speed to take the next step towards a premiership. I will argue until the day I die that it is in fact 'inside hardness' that wins premierships, not outside speed."

Thomas was initially critical of Lyon's defensive style in 2008 but had been a firm supporter of the club and its recent attacking game plan.

 

[StFly]

To be fair on the man he is entitled to his opinion being int he media and he's had several opportunities to mouth off at the club and Ross and has not, so this is ultimately a nothing article.

It is rather pleasing that he still gives a damn about the club though, and this was more a man who feels insulted that Luke is no longer at the club than a swipe at individual elements of the club. Heart in the right place, head needs a bit of an examination.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I read the original the article they're citing here. GT stated at the end something like, "I still believe inside toughness is what wins Grand Finals, not outside speed." I just looked at that and thought to myself, "What do you know about winning Grand Finals, GT? What do even know about getting into them? Seriously, shut up." It just frustrated me so much.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Great points. Lets compare records, Ross Lyon 1 Premiership, one GF loss by 1 point, a prelim and a GF in the last 5 years. Grant Thomas, sacked from Saints, sacked from SEN, losing finals coach.
Leave the club alone and go and give Butters his money back.

 

[Fehring]

Let's get Grant to take us through his philosophy on ruckmen again. I always enjoy that one.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Yep, that would mean no Rhys Stanley, Gardiner, Mc Evoy or King....

 

[just a line monkey]

GT is a flog yes, but lack of compensation for Luke ball and a judgement drafting on Lovett. Recruiting department as been great for the previous 5 years till last year.
We shall move on to bigger and better things tho.

 

[Plugger35]

GT is a flog yes, but lack of compensation for Luke ball and a judgement drafting on Lovett. Recruiting department as been great for the previous 5 years till last year.
We shall move on to bigger and better things tho.

Yeah easy for Thomas to be wise in hindsight. No doubt everyone recognises that the Ball and Lovett trades were stuff ups but, as you point out, Lyon and the recruiting dept have done a lot more right than wrong in the last few years.

Not sure what Thomas hopes to gain by dragging this all up again. You get the feeling he is still bitter over his exit and can't wait to sink the boots in to Lyon and the rest of the club any chance he gets.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Hey look a dead horse!

Wanna go flog it?

 

[Cardio Carl]

Hey look a dead horse!

Wanna go flog it?

Looks like he is flogging it himself!

Terry Wallace and GT, has-been coaches, has-been media guy's.

I mean really, his last avenue of getting his big ego & vitriol out is via Ninemsn. Yawn!

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

a.) Jon Ralph

b.) Grant Thomas

c.) Luke Ball

what a recipe for BS !

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

I read the original the article they're citing here. GT stated at the end something like, "I still believe inside toughness is what wins Grand Finals, not outside speed." I just looked at that and thought to myself, "What do you know about winning Grand Finals, GT? What do even know about getting into them? Seriously, shut up." It just frustrated me so much.

Hang on there, Percy, Thomas led us to and won a Grand Final for us, didn't he ?

But then, so did Ross Lyon (and is about to lead us there again). And Ross did not give the dumb and arrogant order not to be happy about winning a grand final. Hey, it may be just the pre-season, but a grand final is a grand final (just ask the doggies) win is a win (just ask the 96 Saints - I still feel for Hayes in 2004, he must have hated Thomas that moment).

 

[underthestars]

Man's simply doing his job, and doing it better than many, just like when he coached. Happy to have a sainter in the media. And hindsight or not, his comments are valid - we stuffed up and have handled our public communication very poorly.
GT still knows the leadership group far more intimately than any one else in the media. A great mentor to our current leadership group and a decent coach. I'd reverse that equation for Lyon.

 

[krusden]

Man's simply doing his job, and doing it better than many, just like when he coached. Happy to have a sainter in the media. And hindsight or not, his comments are valid - we stuffed up and have handled our public communication very poorly.
GT still knows the leadership group far more intimately than any one else in the media. A great mentor to our current leadership group and a decent coach. I'd reverse that equation for Lyon.

Let's pick your post apart a bit:
- Thommo isn't doing his job better than most unless you compare him to Jon Ralph and Robbo but compared to actual journos like even robert walls Thomas is nothing but a mouth on legs
- he isn't a "sainter in the media" and is not loyal to our club. In fact since he left the club he has been generally uncomplimentary
- When he coached his stubborn manner and inflexible game day coaching left us open to losing so he did not do his job better than many when he coached.
- thomas was a great mentor yes, but a crap coach. Would have made an excellent assistant coach to Ross The Boss IMO but as a senior coach he was out of his depth.

The article is essentially a man standing up for his friend trying to make his mate Ball look the best and the Saints the worst out of the deal and in fact the whole article misses the point that Bally walked out on the club.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

GT still knows the leadership group far more intimately than any one else in the media. A great mentor to our current leadership group and a decent coach. I'd reverse that equation for Lyon.

So what do you prefer ?

The 'manager' who controlled everything off field, yet could not control what happened on field OR the man who created a style of play feared and admired in the AFL, yet leaves off field matters to others.

Yes, Thomas formed a phantastic group of players (yet one of his favourites left the club when offered a three year contract because he didn't feel enough love), but he was not paid to be their best friend, he was paid for success - which he did not deliver.

Thomas would have driven the team bus himself if he could. Lyon realises that he has a team of experts around him and is intelligent and mentally strong enough to stay out of matters which are not his business (legal matters for the lawyers, business matters for the managers, medical matters for the physios / docs, driving the bus for the busdriver, etc.).

Lyon took over when we were supposedly at the end of our premiership window and had very little quality youngsters following his core group (Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Ball, Dal Santo).

We are now top favourites to win the premiership and have incredible depth. We haven't won anything yet and Lyon will be measured by his success over the next two to three years, but he certainly has built a basis for success.

Thomas deserves credit for what he's done for and introduced to the club structure - but he should keep quiet about actual football matters as he has proven beyond doubt that things like tactics, game plans, reading opposition strategies and adapting our own, etc. were not his strength.

And having seen Armitage (I believe) ignoring all other options to immediately give Cahill the chance for another mark after his nervous first attempt or having seen various small hand balls to the better positioned player shows me that the players play for each other (I believe it is Milne who leads for assists 2010 so far !) - despite just a decent mentor...

 

[saintsownthedome]

I dont mind that Grant Thomas has an opinion that he is willing to share.

A lot of Saints fans ate up everything he said when he was coach (even some of the crap), so why not eat it up now ? He wasnt always right back then, and he isnt always wrong now.

I dont agree with everything he says, but I respect him for having an opinion.