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List Mgmt. Hard decisions

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fishardansin

fishardansin

Brownlow Medallist
Veteran 10k Posts Essendon Player Sponsor 2016
Apr 6, 2008
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Ok guys I'm going to say it. This current list will not win a flag. I don't mean none of the current players will, I mean none that are in the second half of their career.

There is no way we'll overtake Hawks, Freo or Sydney before GWS and, after a few tweaks, GCS take over the league.

I think the current Richmond and North squads are similar to us that they'll peak somewhere between 3rd and 6th and then fall away. So in my eyes the race is on to quickly rebuild. I think we can be a good side in the peak of Daniher, Heppell and Z. Merrett's career and the back end of Hurley, Hooker, Colyer, Zaharakis and Carlise's careers.

What are your thoughts on this? Should we keep tweeking this list or prune it right back?
 
People piss and moan about the apparent lack of punishment for the ASADA WADA FADA saga, but losing a first rounder and two second rounders was colossal.

We didn't mitigate shit, we had to trade good players to get back into the draft.

heck.
 

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I tend to agree - but unlike a lot of commentators I don't believe the coaching panel thinks our window is now or even the next 3-4 years. We brought in Goddard, Chapman and Cooney because we needed to lift the professionalism of the playing group with good experienced players with an elite hunger for the contest.

It takes strong culture, good coaching, and time to build a team good enough to build a flag. We've gone from a rabble to an average team. If we learn to play consistent, good football then we can become a good side. Once we're a good side we have a chance of winning a flag.

Aside from the loss of Ryder, the remaining changes to our list over the past few years all been positive. I don't think clubs that make decisions about the playing list with short term considerations will prevail - they will end up missing their short window for success and sinking to the bottom of the ladder. You always have to look to middle-long term - with that strategy you give your club the best chance of being in a strong enough position to win a flag over a 4-5 year period.

We are definitely not in that window.
 
fishardansin said:
Ok guys I'm going to say it. This current list will not win a flag. I don't mean none of the current players will, I mean none that are in the second half of their career.

There is no way we'll overtake Hawks, Freo or Sydney before GWS and, after a few tweaks, GCS take over the league.

I think the current Richmond and North squads are similar to us that they'll peak somewhere between 3rd and 6th and then fall away. So in my eyes the race is on to quickly rebuild. I think we can be a good side in the peak of Daniher, Heppell and Z. Merrett's career and the back end of Hurley, Hooker, Colyer, Zaharakis and Carlise's careers.

What are your thoughts on this? Should we keep tweeking this list or prune it right back?
Click to expand...



There will be a lengthy rant from me in this thread at some stage but for now, the hardest decision to be made is whether the club wants to stand by all of the 2012 listed players or whether they want to build something meaningful.

I understand why it would be so hard to leave some of these players behind but that's not my problem and I am sick of supporting a mediocre footy club.

We did so much good work building the list to 2012 and have done nothing pro-actively to continue the build from 2013 and holes are emerging at a reasonably rapid rate (the ruck and key posts lack chemistry and depth). If Crameri and Ryder did not walk we would have had 1 first and second round pick in two drafts (we've never traded big before).

The club needs to move on and worry about making the right footy decisions again. It doesn't mean not playing Jobe and Goddard because they are old, far from it, we should have looked at what we need from the list we have and played those players to correct the issues with the current team to given them a chance at a serious crack in 2016 and 2017.
 
BrunoV said:
There will be a lengthy rant from me in this thread at some stage but for now, the hardest decision to be made is whether the club wants to stand by all of the 2012 listed players or whether they want to build something meaningful.

I understand why it would be so hard to leave some of these players behind but that's not my problem and I am sick of supporting a mediocre footy club.

We did so much good work building the list to 2012 and have done nothing pro-actively to continue the build from 2013 and holes are emerging at a reasonably rapid rate (the ruck and key posts lack chemistry and depth). If Crameri and Ryder did not walk we would have had 1 first and second round pick in two drafts (we've never traded big before).

The club needs to move on and worry about making the right footy decisions again.
Click to expand...

A total rebuild or renovation?
 
BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
A mini rebuild just to replace blokes like Jobe,Goddard,Stanton etc via the draft.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure we should be aiming to replace certain players but think about what we'll have in 4 years time and try to get a list together that will then be powerful for 2020-2022.
 
I think that in order to get back up to the top, it's going to take not only hard decisions but also some dare.

Wouldn't mind seeing the club take a few risks on blokes that aren't getting a go at other clubs, or pursuing one or two B-Graders from other clubs that have upside potential.
 
Can we rename it "Hird decisions" ?
Because if he thinks we can win a premiership with the list, then so do I.
 

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I can see what you mean. Teams don't normally go from not winning a final in 10+ years to making grand finals. By that logic we won't be making a grand final until 2017 best case.
At that point Watson, Goddard, Stanton, Chapman, Cooney etc will all be well past 30 and with their decline, the team will also fall.

You talk about hard decisions but who would you look at moving on with trade value?

Watson = club legend = won't move
Goddard = came here on big $$ = won't move
etc

The only players with some trade value would be players like Colyer, Zaka, Heppell, Carlisle, Hooker etc and you wouldn't want to give them up.


You'll be surprised how quickly you can change a team when you have a great young spine. If Hooker, Hurley, Bellchambers, Daniher and Carlisle all stay at Essendon we'll continue to improve. The key is quick improvement. We are behind the eight ball because of the ASADA crap. We should have been playing finals the last couple of years with this year and next our chance at a flag. It's still possible but it'll be a lot harder now. I have faith.

Let's focus on beating North tomorrow night.
 
BrunoV said:
There will be a lengthy rant from me in this thread at some stage but for now, the hardest decision to be made is whether the club wants to stand by all of the 2012 listed players or whether they want to build something meaningful.

I understand why it would be so hard to leave some of these players behind but that's not my problem and I am sick of supporting a mediocre footy club.

We did so much good work building the list to 2012 and have done nothing pro-actively to continue the build from 2013 and holes are emerging at a reasonably rapid rate (the ruck and key posts lack chemistry and depth). If Crameri and Ryder did not walk we would have had 1 first and second round pick in two drafts (we've never traded big before).

The club needs to move on and worry about making the right footy decisions again. It doesn't mean not playing Jobe and Goddard because they are old, far from it, we should have looked at what we need from the list we have and played those players to correct the issues with the current team to given them a chance at a serious crack in 2016 and 2017.
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but see the time line as too ambitious. After the draft penalties letting Ryder go for peanuts is going to really hurt. I'm not sure Crameri was worth a top 10 pick to be honest, and was out of contract. That said if Bellchambers and Cooney were fit and in great form we'd not be so hurt by that, especially if Laverde and Langford were bashing down the door.

I personally think that we do just need to keep playing kids and, like you say, keep playing older blokes if they're in the top 10 at our club.
 
daffo said:
I can see what you mean. Teams don't normally go from not winning a final in 10+ years to making grand finals. By that logic we won't be making a grand final until 2017 best case.
At that point Watson, Goddard, Stanton, Chapman, Cooney etc will all be well past 30 and with their decline, the team will also fall.

You talk about hard decisions but who would you look at moving on with trade value?

Watson = club legend = won't move
Goddard = came here on big $$ = won't move
etc

The only players with some trade value would be players like Colyer, Zaka, Heppell, Carlisle, Hooker etc and you wouldn't want to give them up.


You'll be surprised how quickly you can change a team when you have a great young spine. If Hooker, Hurley, Bellchambers, Daniher and Carlisle all stay at Essendon we'll continue to improve. The key is quick improvement. We are behind the eight ball because of the ASADA crap. We should have been playing finals the last couple of years with this year and next our chance at a flag. It's still possible but it'll be a lot harder now. I have faith.

Let's focus on beating North tomorrow night.
Click to expand...

Sure. I am not sure about trading. I'm talking about letting Howlett go, maybe Melksham and perhaps trading one of the guys you said not to. More importantly I'm saying perhaps we have to play more kids and cycle through them quicker. Perhaps Kavanagh will be of interest to other clubs. However, I am just saying to change the demographics of the team over the next few years. Perhaps 4 years of lower mid table results to a team with plenty of youth and picks 8, 28 an 48 each year with an extra 2nd rounder or our 2nd rounder upgraded each year will be enough.

That said if Myers, Hocking, Bellchambers, Carlisle, Chapman, Cooney and Daniher were all fit and playing well we'd be in a much different position.
 
fishardansin said:
Ok guys I'm going to say it. This current list will not win a flag. I don't mean none of the current players will, I mean none that are in the second half of their career.

There is no way we'll overtake Hawks, Freo or Sydney before GWS and, after a few tweaks, GCS take over the league.

I think the current Richmond and North squads are similar to us that they'll peak somewhere between 3rd and 6th and then fall away. So in my eyes the race is on to quickly rebuild. I think we can be a good side in the peak of Daniher, Heppell and Z. Merrett's career and the back end of Hurley, Hooker, Colyer, Zaharakis and Carlise's careers.

What are your thoughts on this? Should we keep tweeking this list or prune it right back?
Click to expand...

Hard decisions need to be made but who will be making them? There is no garantee that Hird will be here in two years, so its easy to see why they are trying to snatch one right this second. Theres no guarantee that our next coach is at the club.
The performances so far are i feel related to the fact We have copped some injuries to a key part of our group, the midfield. We have shocking depth, we now finally had a good top line but its the 2nd stringers who are just not up to it.
Our defence in both the line up and the structures in place are rock solid. The midfield when up and running and fully fit can run with everyone. Our forward line though not great is better when the rest of the field isnt struggling, this is where our short term focus should be.

To be honest i have a feeling we all know how this is going to go. Hird and the current group will try win a flag in the next two years. We will then start fresh, the older guys will retire the coaching department will get a shake up and the strong list pruning will take place to try and capatilise on your Heppells, Merrets and Danihers later in their careers.

Now do we start that early build a vision and then change everything in two years or do we try to snatch that premiership with the current group and if we fail well we just werent good enough. This team when up and running can challenge. Id like to at least try
 

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Watson, Winderlich, Stanton, Goddard, Fletcher, Chapman, Cooney will probably all be gone in 3 years time and need to be replaced.
However, Goddard/watson being the exception these guys aren't really our core and losing them won't be that drastic.
But **** me we got some important players out atm......
 
I've been thinking of this for a few years now. Apart from getting the necessary players we need, they need to be clever footballers as well.
 

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