List Mgmt. Hard decisions

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

what can ya do when the club was kicked out of round 1 an 2 in the NAB AFL Drafts for 2 years, ro ro forgets that

Must nail this draft I back Doddoro and the recruiting team to achieve that.

 

[Demz]

Must nail this draft I back Doddoro and the recruiting team to achieve that.

i just dont think we need another Defender when fletch leaves as i think Carlisle can do that while McKernan can play up forward an share the Ruck with Belly or a New Ruckman if the club goes after a new one which i think they will.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

Apart from the whole 'win general play, forward hilarity ensues' thing that's come to define the last 3 years (and given the entire forward rotation has been brought together in that time frame does it really surprise anyone?) we're not in that bad a spot, at least not to the extent that people have said we are in the last 24 hours, people are overreacting, which is fair enough because it's f***ing frustrating, but still overreacting.

That game wasn't a watershed 'reached the peak and now we're on the way down' moment, it just perfectly typified our issues. Right now we're a bit like the saints in about 08ish, without the benefit of the best big forward and the best small forward of the last decade in the font half.

Right now an example of a hard decision would be putting Chapman out to pasture, letting Bellchambers actually recover some fitness or moving someone like Howlett to the periphery in favour of someone like Browne or Kavanagh, a hard decision is not flipping our shit and deciding that we may as well get rid of everyone.

Amazingly enough building a list almost completely from scratch does take time

One of the more rational posts.

 

[BrunoV]

Must nail this draft I back Doddoro and the recruiting team to achieve that.

Not much point drafting players if we don't play them.

 

[Tassieboy]

Need to inject some youth and pace into the side.

I see what you did there.

 

[Mrs Mercuri]

Time for Hirdy to wield the axe and bit and put some senior guys on notice... How TB keeps getting a game when Giles and McKernan are starring at VFL level is beyond me. Ambrose doesn't do anything each week and yet still gets given matches too!

 

[Doss]

Time for Hirdy to wield the axe and bit and put some senior guys on notice... How TB keeps getting a game when Giles and McKernan are starring at VFL level is beyond me. Ambrose doesn't do anything each week and yet still gets given matches too!

Giles ain't starring at VFL level.

But yes, Bellchambers is struggling.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Stop cross referencing meaningless awards and watch him play.

Then go and watch Pendlebury play. Take note of the gap and work backwards from there.

It's not meaningless. It's the perfect illustration of the player he is. Good judges rated him as one of the top few mids in the comp just 10 games ago. He did it all year, Jobe got injured and he was predicted to struggle with the tag - and he went up another level and did it even better.

I've been watching him play since his first game and the kid is ****in star.

He has a slight down patch in form against his own very lofty standards and all of a sudden everything gets reset to zero and we're bagging him because he's not right now producing the standards of players five years older than him?

He's a beast of a player and has been for some time.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Anyway unlikely therell be any tough decisions this year because we probably have 10 on our list about who there can be easy decisions.

If the club can't even make the easy decisions then we're in a lot of trouble.

 

[Age123]

The serious problem we are currently in, is as follows:
Over the past 3 seasons besides P Ryder, every listed player & especially the leadership group have backed Hird as a coach & as a close friend.
How on earth can he come back in as coach after all the support he has had & start to treat these players the way they should be treated. Weekly demotions to those who don't perform & promotions to those who deserve it is how it should be.
Im not sure what the answer is, but I do know over the last few years a lot of these players could have walked & didnt, but it's now left us in a vulnerable position where our club feels that it owes it to the players & being ruthless with them is not the right thing to do.
Example- Howlett stayed at Essendon last year due to the fact that Hird was coming back. Now we would all love to see one of Leverde, Fantasia, Edwards come in, but due to above dilemma Hird can't drop Howlett.
In short: We're ****ed!!!

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The serious problem we are currently in, is as follows:
Over the past 3 seasons besides P Ryder, every listed player & especially the leadership group have backed Hird as a coach & as a close friend.
How on earth can he come back in as coach after all the support he has had & start to treat these players the way they should be treated. Weekly demotions to those who don't perform & promotions to those who deserve it is how it should be.
Im not sure what the answer is, but I do know over the last few years a lot of these players could have walked & didnt, but it's now left us in a vulnerable position where our club feels that it owes it to the players & being ruthless with them is not the right thing to do.
Example- Howlett stayed at Essendon last year due to the fact that Hird was coming back. Now we would all love to see one of Leverde, Fantasia, Edwards come in, but due to above dilemma Hird can't drop Howlett.
In short: We're stuffed!!!

It's where you have to trust in the board to make the right decisions.

If Hird presides over a lack of success and progress they'll have to call time on him.

Of course, keeping the board accountable means actually participating etc and ensuring they're on the job, not allowing our elections to be hijacked by a bunch of knuckledragging nitwits from bomberblitz as per last year.

 

[BrunoV]

It's not meaningless. It's the perfect illustration of the player he is. Good judges rated him as one of the top few mids in the comp just 10 games ago. He did it all year, Jobe got injured and he was predicted to struggle with the tag - and he went up another level and did it even better.

I've been watching him play since his first game and the kid is ****in star.

He has a slight down patch in form against his own very lofty standards and all of a sudden everything gets reset to zero and we're bagging him because he's not right now producing the standards of players five years older than him?

He's a beast of a player and has been for some time.

What do you see Heppell do that is so good?

 

[ManWithNoName]

What do you see Heppell do that is so good?

You mean besides make the AA team and be considered a Brownlow chance last year?

 

[BrunoV]

You mean besides make the AA team and be considered a Brownlow chance last year?

So that is what Heppell does well on field? Puts himself in contention to win subjectively judged honours that most on these boards scoff at when it involves a player from a a supported club being overlooked.

Watch Dangerfield v Fyfe and ask yourself when Heppell has been within a bulls roar of playing at that sort of level.

 

[ManWithNoName]

So that is what Heppell does well on field? Puts himself in contention to win subjectively judged honours that most on these boards scoff at when it involves a player from a a supported club being overlooked.

Watch Dangerfield v Fyfe and ask yourself when Heppell has been within a bulls roar of playing at that sort of level.

So I can't question Zaharakis, but unless Heppell will be as good as Danger or Fyfe he's no good?

Righto.

 

[Despair]

Heppell is a great player, make no mistake, but he just lacks the attributes to turn the game by himself. He still needs capable players around him.

Doesn't have the penetrative boot, burst of speed or goal-scoring ability required to be a game-turner.

 

[BrunoV]

So I can't question Zaharakis, but unless Heppell will be as good as Danger or Fyfe he's no good?

Righto.

Question away, but it's the reasoning that is important.

Heppell being a media darling does not mean that his reputation is justified. I would say that the shit that continually gets hung on Zaharakis is about as justifiable as Heppell's reputation.

I didn't say that Heppell needs to be as good as Dangerfield and Fyfe, by the way. What I was saying is that I've never seen him come close to the sort of footy they played on the weekend (and regularly play). This is where the benchmark is. Seeing as Zaharakis got a mention I would say that his best footy is much better than the best I have seen Heppell play which is not to say that Zaharakis a better player.

Heppell does not hurt opponents enough when in possession of the ball to be considered alongside the players with similar reputations.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Unfortunately he's right

I can't cop the draft sanctions thing as a future excuse.

We were stripped of three 1st and 2nd round picks.

What did the Ryder and Crameri picks net us? Three 1st and 2nd round picks.

Our draft profile was returned to the position it would have been.

Trading one of them for Cooney was daft, but that's a seperate issue.

The net loss was Ryder and Crameri - that hurts, but it's hurting now, just look at our forward line. It's not going to hurt into the future.

Despite the draft sanctions we drafted in Merret, Langford and Laverde, and traded another pick for Cooney. There's kids there. We future proofed ourselves against Carlton style pain. The pain is now.

 

[rumply]

Connelly suggesting players are still getting games due to a sense of guilt over the asaga. He could well be right.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...h-some-harsh-home-truths-20150531-ghdjco.html

Mistakes in AFL football are damaging enough when they happen on the field. When they involve decisions taken off it, the results are more far-reaching. And when the impact of not one but several of those calls run concurrently, the consequences can be grave indeed.

Essendon made probably the biggest mistake the game has ever seen when they pushed the boundaries of sports science too far in 2012, the impact of which may be felt for several years yet.

But there are a couple of direct spin-offs of the supplements saga that have the potential to do just as much damage, and they're becoming clearer with every game the Bombers play.

Essendon's meek offering against a steadfast Richmond in Dustin Fletcher's 400th game would have been disappointing enough in isolation. But it's more evidence that the Bombers should immediately ask themselves a couple of tough questions.

One is whether the travails their players have been through these past three seasons have created a disproportionate sense of loyalty to them, both on a week-to-week basis and in the longer term, from Essendon's coaching staff.

The other is whether some of the Bombers' emotion-fuelled victories over the past three seasons have teased those same coaches and those who run the club into believing that the list at their disposal is better than it actually is.

The round-two victory over Hawthorn was another such moment, coming just a week-and-a-bit after the AFL Tribunal had found the "Essendon 34" not guilty, and after the Dons had raced to a seven-goal lead over the other grand finalist of last season.

Essendon's most memorable victories since the saga began have come after similar flashpoints. They've been enormous highs. But perhaps they've too easily been allowed to mask some equally significant lows, and more often still, some pretty uninspired football sometimes just enough to get the job done, sometimes not.

Essendon's structural issues remain profound, a lack of pace across the board save speedster Travis Colyer, a lack of midfield depth and variety, and a hotch-potch forward set-up lacking any decent crumbers and two problematic key forwards, one in Joe Daniher still learning, another in Jake Carlisle whose kicking issues came home to roost again on Saturday night.

The Bombers are a long way from premiership material, and successive years of topping up with some veteran stars haven't taken them a lot closer and created some issues of their own for future seasons, Essendon in 2015 with the third-oldest list in the AFL.

Brendon Goddard and Paul Chapman have given value, and Adam Cooney still might, but Chapman's lack of mobility is taking a toll, and Goddard has this season accumulated plenty of touches that haven't necessarily had a lot of impact.

While their experience remains important in one sense, it also denies younger players on the list their own. And Hird and co. already appear conservative enough on the selection front.

The ruck provides a good example. Tom Bellchambers is having a very ordinary second season in a row, smashed again on Saturday night, this time by Richmond's Ivan Maric, who did far more around the ground and provided far more meaningful service at critical centre bounces.

Essendon brought in Shaun McKernan to offer the struggling Bellchambers some support two games ago against North Melbourne. He acquitted himself well, too, but was immediately dropped. Former GWS ruckman Jonathan Giles hasn't even been tried yet.

The Bombers have too many of their supposed best 22 whose strengths are more than matched by their weaknesses, and too many who are unable to string enough good performances together.

Carlisle is a magnificent mark but a dodgy kick, which makes his value as a forward questionable. Patrick Ambrose has been the go-to man for forward line defensive pressure, but simply doesn't win enough of the ball. Others like Jake Melksham and Ben Howlett turn in good games then poor ones alternately.

And the time given to alternatives remains limited. Why hasn't Shaun Edwards been tried up forward when his VFL form has been encouraging? Lauchlan Dalgleish has genuine pace, something the Dons desperately lack, but has played only three senior games, all two years ago.

Martin Gleeson started as a sub on Saturday night. Jason Ashby had to go back to the VFL because he'd started as a sub too often to have meaningful game time. All the while the likes of Nick O'Brien and Elliott Kavanagh, each in their fourth season on the list, plug away at reserves level with few chances, unable to have an impact when they do get one.

Nobody at Essendon has been through the wringer more these past three seasons than their players. But perhaps that's provided a crutch of sorts for under-performance, and perhaps it's made Hird too unwilling to crack the whip.

More ominously, the power of emotion might have conspired to give an entire club a blinkered view of just where it stands in the AFL pecking order.

That's middling at best. And in danger of falling further even before there's a resolution to matters with WADA unless some uncomfortable truths are confronted a lot closer to home.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What do you see Heppell do that is so good?

He's a contested beast. As a 21yo his season ends as an AA mid and B&F, leading us in average possessions and contested possessions.

You can compare him to freaks like Dangerfield all you want, Heppell is just about the best young inside mid around. He's a star who wins us a mountain of footy and stepped up and took all the load when Jobe was out, far more than some of his older teammates and despite a hard tag.

I seriously can't believe anybody thinks Heppell is an issue at all.

 

[yodellinhank]

Playing the kids without any support would be daft. You don't ever go full rebuild. Cooney addresses a desperate need on the list and is in our better players every time he steps onto the park.

Having said that, I want Fantasia to get some games. He looks like his skill level is pretty high and that he could provide some run. Dalgleish is another, however it seems to look more and more like his body isn't up to it.

 

[Despair]

I can't cop the draft sanctions thing as a future excuse.

We were stripped of three 1st and 2nd round picks.

What did the Ryder and Crameri picks net us? Three 1st and 2nd round picks.

Our draft profile was returned to the position it would have been.

Trading one of them for Cooney was daft, but that's a seperate issue.

The net loss was Ryder and Crameri - that hurts, but it's hurting now, just look at our forward line. It's not going to hurt into the future.

Despite the draft sanctions we drafted in Merret, Langford and Laverde, and traded another pick for Cooney. There's kids there. We future proofed ourselves against Carlton style pain. The pain is now.

I keep hearing this from people on this forum as if we have somehow circumvented/negated the draft sanctions by trading Ryder & Crameri. Not sure how people are coming to this conclusion... if anything it means we're just spinning our wheels.

If we didn't receive these bullshit draft sanctions we would have been able to actually make progress.

"Our draft profile was returned to the position it would have been" - As far as Drafting is concerned, yes. But in the grand scheme of things that means bugger all. We lost key players/currency to get our Draft profile back.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I keep hearing this from people on this forum as if we have somehow circumvented/negated the draft sanctions by trading Ryder & Crameri. Not sure how people are coming to this conclusion... if anything it means we're just spinning our wheels.

If we didn't receive these bullshit draft sanctions we would have been able to actually make progress.

"Our draft profile was returned to the position it would have been" - As far as Drafting is concerned, yes. But in the grand scheme of things that means bugger all. We lost key players/currency to get our Draft profile back.

Which is exactly what I said in the part you didn't bold.

Draft sanctions bring future pain. We brought that pain forward by losing Crameri and Ryder in order to restore our draft picks. Their loss hurts us now, certainly.

But it allowed us to bring in Merrett, Langford and Laverde, plus get another pick which we traded for Cooney. So the long terms pain has been removed.

That's my point - Connolly and others warning of pain to come from draft sanctions are wrong. We got the draft picks back. The pain is here and now. We have no need to fear a Carlton-esque future.

It's probably another reason we should be paring back for a tilt on a couple of years.

 

[Despair]

Which is exactly what I said in the part you didn't bold.

Draft sanctions bring future pain. We brought that pain forward by losing Crameri and Ryder in order to restore our draft picks. Their loss hurts us now, certainly.

But it allowed us to bring in Merrett, Langford and Laverde, plus get another pick which we traded for Cooney. So the long terms pain has been removed.

That's my point - Connolly and others warning of pain to come from draft sanctions are wrong. We got the draft picks back. The pain is here and now. We have no need to fear a Carlton-esque future.

It's probably another reason we should be paring back for a tilt on a couple of years.

Really it just means that we're going to be "ok". With trading away Ryder & Crameri this could have been our opportunity to actually move forward as a club. Could have delisted a couple more players who aren't going to make it and drafted in a couple more high picks.

 

[srobbo]

Why Chapman?

At least he knows what it takes to win a flag, or even a final. Howlett and Ambrose are exposed quantities. And what banal quantities they are.

No one's disputing Chappy's knows what it takes, but does he have ability to execute anymore? On what ive seen so far this year, def not! Wasnigh on non competitive in second half, had hi spants pulled down time after time in one & one's and was so devoid of confidence was actually waiting fr the ball to come to him, rather than attcking it!!

Would be the first to go this week it were up to me.

I do however agree with Ambrose. Needs to go back for a 2-3 week stint & get familiar with having in impact on the scoreboard, whether it be direct/indirect. Howlett?? Same category as Stanton for me...just a list clogger.