Moved Thread Heritier Lumumba Documentary - Fair Game (SBS)

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Grrr said:
Yes true, but what about the Spanish in Sth. America.... made the Aztecs look like choirboys..
When the Spanish first arrived in the Americas at the end of the 15th century, it’s estimated there were about 50 million people living in the New World. A few hundred years later, there were less than 2 million indigenous people left. Was this the world’s greatest genocide?
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Wasn't even the slightest bit serious in my post.
 
Grrr said:
Yes true, but what about the Spanish in Sth. America.... made the Aztecs look like choirboys..
When the Spanish first arrived in the Americas at the end of the 15th century, it’s estimated there were about 50 million people living in the New World. A few hundred years later, there were less than 2 million indigenous people left. Was this the world’s greatest genocide?
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To be fair that wasn't entirely intentional (not that the Europeans didn't take advantage of the power vacuum) but mostly a result of Old World diseases that the New World peoples held no immunity to.
 

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Grrr said:
The reason why I first mentioned the genocide in The Congo, was not to say one 'colour' was worse than the other, or as you note, why do I only mention the brutality of the whites, but to highlight that the brutality of colonial rule in The Congo
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I'm sure the Congo, just like pre-colonial Australia, was a lovely place to live free from crime and bad feelings.

The entire world used to be such a nice place until white people ruined it all.
 
Grrr said:
You realise indigenous people in this country were having their babies taken away in the 1970's still.
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As were white single mothers in the 1970's. It was a different time, and at that time people didn't trust single mothers to take care of children (somewhat justified by the fact that during that time a single mother would have had no income). Aboriginal babies weren't taken from Aboriginal nuclear familes. They were taken from communities were no fathers were present, in a misguided attempt to give them a better life. Nowadays there are many people who very dishonestly try to frame it as an attempt at genocide.

People from a different age with vastly different values to today committed acts that seem abhorrent by today's standards. Look back into any aspect of Australian history and you'll find hundreds of examples of acts that would be considered horrible today, but were considered normal then. Transportation in itself was a completely horrible practice that resulted in thousands of deaths at sea for people who had committed crimes that wouldn't be worthy of a jail sentence today.

100 years ago you could marry your 12 year old cousin and they castrated gays and drowned babies with down's syndrome. It was a s**t time to be alive. It wasn't only indigenous people that suffered. People tend to forget that. But when you frame it in the sense that it was only indigenous people that suffered it tends to whitewash (for want of a better word) what happened to poor people at the hands of the elites as a general rule.

Ask an Irish person about their white privilege in the 19th century. Or an Armenian, if you can find one.

People emphasise the crimes of Europeans because that's how the society we live in was founded. But in truth if you were born in the 19th century you would have been better off in a British colony than in Feudal China or Siam or Hokkaido. Pretty much every country that was previously a British colony is a better place to live now than the places that weren't. That's the cold reality of history.

If Japan or Indonesia had found Australia first there would be no indigenous people left.
 
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ydraw said:
If Japan or Indonesia had found Australia first there would be no indigenous people left.
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I'm not so sure about this - although 3rd and 4th generation descendants from Korea living in Japan as still considered foreigners in Japan, Indonesia is a hugely diverse group of islands with distinct and separate peoples of different languages and cultures, even in areas where atrocities are still occurring (e.g. West Papua) there is still a substantial population of inhabitants.

Genocide certainly occurred during Australian colonial history (especially Tasmania), although the less savoury aspects of indigenous life (e.g. infanticide rates of 25-30% in mobs around Victoria, women treated as chattels) are often just as ignored as crimes against the local population.
Neither pre-colonial or post-colonial Australian history is anything like modern times.
 
Mofra said:
I'm not so sure about this - although 3rd and 4th generation descendants from Korea living in Japan as still considered foreigners in Japan, Indonesia is a hugely diverse group of islands with distinct and separate peoples of different languages and cultures, even in areas where atrocities are still occurring (e.g. West Papua) there is still a substantial population of inhabitants.

Genocide certainly occurred during Australian colonial history (especially Tasmania), although the less savoury aspects of indigenous life (e.g. infanticide rates of 25-30% in mobs around Victoria, women treated as chattels) are often just as ignored as crimes against the local population.
Neither pre-colonial or post-colonial Australian history is anything like modern times.
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Yep - and the fact that Indonesia adopted Bahasa as the national language rather than the language of the dominant Javanese speaks volumes for the founding of the country being based on pluralism after years of Dutch oppression. And before this there are plenty of years of Buddhists, Hindus (FFS!! nowhere near India), Catholics and Muslims living together relatively well.

Not Saints by any means but a bit daft to paint them as rival Genocidists.
 
In fact, when compared to similar situations of oppressors leaving after centuries of rule ie Yugoslavia etc, Indonesia is actually pretty amazing. 250 Million people. Democracy. Multiple islands, religions, languages etc

I am constantly amazed by the relative success of Indoensia

(Still arseholes in Timor and West Papua no doubt...)
 
ydraw said:
I'm sure the Congo, just like pre-colonial Australia, was a lovely place to live free from crime and bad feelings.

The entire world used to be such a nice place until white people ruined it all.
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There were obviously tribal regions, like there is all across Africa where you didn't stray, raiding parties etc, but King Leopold of Belgium was a particularly nasty piece of works. He is credited with the chopping off of hands that has been taken up with gusto by modern African despots.
 
O'Rourke Awakens!! said:
Your people ultimately got a leg up (compared to Indigenous Australians) by getting a country and a s**t load of military support from the most powerful nation on earth. And your argument eats itself when incorporating these facts. The past is indeed the past. Analysing the present is important. So why do Indigenous people have such a short life span and are disproportionately represented in custody? Applying your logic it's because they felt like they were owed something.

Where as your people didn't think they were owed something ....

Seriously? Lol
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I think your comprehension needs work if you think that"s what I was saying. In fact I was saying its all rubbish
 

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PP34 said:
Yep something that happened centuries ago is totally relevant to today's society compared to what happened to Australia'a indigenous just a short time ago.
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what hitler did was 70 years ago mate. I actually don't care because I don't obsess about the past nor do I look at people as black or white, I just see people. You are clearly reverse racist and if it isn't black people it can't be racist or as important according to you
 
boltsbabyblues said:
what hitler did was 70 years ago mate. I actually don't care because I don't obsess about the past nor do I look at people as black or white, I just see people. You are clearly reverse racist and if it isn't black people it can't be racist or as important according to you
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You don't think things that have been in place over the last 70 years (both here and dare I say it in Israel where a nation state has since been created in in that time) are relevant to the plight of both sets of people? In the case of Indigenous Australians we are talking about removing children from their families as late as the 1970s. No right to vote until the 1960s. You're infinitely relativist arguments are a bit daft.

I withdraw my above apology - not sure I did misunderstand you.....
 
boltsbabyblues said:
what hitler did was 70 years ago mate. I actually don't care because I don't obsess about the past nor do I look at people as black or white, I just see people. You are clearly reverse racist and if it isn't black people it can't be racist or as important according to you
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You don't know my feelings on other issues like the plight of the Jews so don't act like you do.

This thread relates to Lumumba and the issues he feels exist. If you want to talk about Jews and others then go and do that somewhere else.

Reverse racist, ha thanks for making me laugh. You're not worth anymore time.
 
O'Rourke Awakens!! said:
No right to vote until the 1960s.
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Technically they could vote if they could vote in state elections, moot point though as obviously it wasn't universal and also people neglected to tell them this as well (i.e. they can't vote if nobody told them they could)
 
PP34 said:
If you don't know the difference between the violence than you're not worth wasting anymore words on.

People of colour have been almost wiped off the planet or moved to the bottom of society as a result of violence against them.
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45 million Chinese, 25 million Russians, 6 million Jews, 3 million Irish , 2 million Cambodians say hi. That's just in the past 100 years. Mass murdered or in the case of the Irish, left to starve to death.
 
boltsbabyblues said:
. I actually don't care because I don't obsess about the past nor do I look at people as black or white, I just see people. You are clearly reverse racist
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If you threw in that discussing racial issues is divisive and that people should be coming together, your post would be a winner on the "low key bigot" bingo card.
 
PP34 said:
So because that has happened **** caring about the plight of Australia's indigenous?

Makes total sense.
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what's their current plight? we invest hundreds of millions of dollars on them every year! the only plight they are suffering from is the child abuse in their communities while lefties stand by and watch and say don't interfere. its divisive, it doesn't matter what colour you are,
 
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