high altitude training

[Kickett Punches Read]

given dane swan's second half of the year, and even teams like the financially struggling north going on trips to arizona to get in on the high altitude training, i was wondering if people think it worth while fremantle do something of the like. Financially id say we could afford it... im no doctor however, so id like to know exactly what the advantages are of this type of training. can anyone else explain this? is it worth us getting some sort of altitude chamber like the pies have so it can be completed throughout the year rather than in just one hit?

what are peoples thoughts?

 

[DockerLand1]

given dane swan's second half of the year, and even teams like the financially struggling north going on trips to arizona to get in on the high altitude training, i was wondering if people think it worth while fremantle do something of the like. Financially id say we could afford it... im no doctor however, so id like to know exactly what the advantages are of this type of training. can anyone else explain this? is it worth us getting some sort of altitude chamber like the pies have so it can be completed throughout the year rather than in just one hit?

what are peoples thoughts?

I see no reason why we should not spend some of our considerable bankroll to invest in anything that the most successful teams are doing. High altitude training appears (with a very successful fitness and rehab team) to keep players on the park for the Pies unlike our 2011 season!

 

[Belnakor]

Load of shit all the evidence says you have to stay for a couple of months to get any benefit. Placebo.

 

[Taylor]

I'd rather we sent the boys to the Switzerland and ran them up the mountains a few times. The Swiss have these diet biscuits which are those rice crackers with a centimeter of chocolate on top of it and yet not a single person I saw in my time there was overweight.

I think Collingwood would get more results from blood doping than trying to create a natural similar effect in a week or two of training.

 

[Lord Rod]

Not sure if it's the reason why Collingwood have been so good but if it is beneficial to the team then I'm all for it.With the current proactive and professional administration at the club, I wouldn't be surprised if they're already looking into it.

 

[Sigwald]

As a cycling fan I've grown to be suspicious of any effort that seems super-human, whatever the sport.

training at altitude works, but takes time. The idea is that the lower levels of oxygen in the air, make you increase the red blood count in your blood. More oxygen can then be transported around your body to compensate for the thin air. Also it will intensify the effect of your training regime. Returning to your normal level, your red blood count will not drop instantly, meaning that you will be able to transport more oxygen than someone who had stayed home and done the exact amount of training. More oxygen = better results.

A two week trip has a very limited effect though, and definitely not a long lasting one. Altitude chambers, often used for sleeping in, have a positive effect, but are a b!tch to use. So the smaller positive effect (because you're sleeping, not training) could be countered by negative consequences of a disturbed night sleep.

With blood doping, you just inject freshly stored blood (taken for example after a training at altitude so that it's high on red blood cells) to artificially boost your red blood count. Since it's your own blood, and it's untreated, it's nigh undetectable. That's why they search for plastifiers, evidence that your blood has been stored. There'll be a stringent schedule when to administer the 'refills' to maximize the effect of the blood on the dates it matters most.

I don't want to point at anyone and say they're on a doping program, but I fear there will be in the AFL as well. Collingwood, I don't trust, for example. So much of what I read of their training methods remind me of cycling excuses. They've been flat the last three weeks, if they suddenly come out and run Geelong of their feet, I will draw my own conclusion.

As for us, I think we should get the basics right first; skills, structures, blocking, etc. before we go and chase the last couple of % that altitude training can bring you.

 

[theGav56]

Placebo,s work. That is why there is an effect.

By recruiting Lyon, appointing a specialist Stoppage Coach, recruiting Clark, and looking at high alt training, there is a clear message that no stone willl be left unturned in a quest for success. That is not placebo.

 

[estibador]

With blood doping, you just inject freshly stored blood (taken for example after a training at altitude so that it's high on red blood cells) to artificially boost your red blood count. Since it's your own blood, and it's untreated, it's nigh undetectable. That's why they search for plastifiers, evidence that your blood has been stored.

You're certainly not alone in your mistrust of Collingwood. I trust them to be completely clean about as far as I can throw Eddie's ego.

Does anyone know if this plastifiers test is part of the regular AFL testing program?

 

[Clay Davis]

Erythropoietin.

Brisbane used to do blood doping, I believe.

 

[The Joker]

The problem with sending the Dockers over there is that it doesnt cure shit. Yes it may help with the injury process but it doesnt help with the crap football that the FFC produce more often than not.

 

[Alfonz]

Trusty Wikipedia tells me the benefits from altitude training only last a few weeks after your return to normal altitude. So not sure what use it would be for the season proper apart from being a team bonding trip.

I recall Swan himself saying the main benefit of him going to the US during the season was to recharge the batteries, get away from Melbourne and freshen up the mind. It was more a mental thing than providing physical benefits.

 

[CamTinley]

Load of shit all the evidence says you have to stay for a couple of months to get any benefit. Placebo.

So do you think Collingwood will stop going there any time soon ? If it works (even if it's all psychological) it's worth it. The benefits could be in bonding or focus or lack of distractions, who cares, it works for Collingwood so we'd be mad not to give it a go.

 

[Clay Davis]

Collingwood are like a very rich man trying to find a cure for his terminal disease. He'll spend money on rhino horn if he thinks that will help. Doesn't mean it is actually a cure.

 

[estibador]

Collingwood are like a very rich man trying to find a cure for his terminal disease. He'll spend money on rhino horn if he thinks that will help. Doesn't mean it is actually a cure.

With the side effect that he will drive rhinos to extinction - though in this case you can substitute rhinos with bulldogs and kangaroos.

 

[PurpleGreenRed]

You're certainly not alone in your mistrust of Collingwood. I trust them to be completely clean about as far as I can throw Eddie's ego.

Does anyone know if this plastifiers test is part of the regular AFL testing program?

Not sure they could be when none of their supporters are! Too Harsh ? Never mind. In all honesty though I think we should be considering the basics.
Proper Training facility would be the priority rather than a jumbo with four rows of seats removed for Sandi to go to Arizona for a few weeks.

AND if you think it should work...why are the Arizona Cardinals crap....seriously...they train there all the time!!

 

[Nickos66]

Load of shit all the evidence says you have to stay for a couple of months to get any benefit. Placebo.

Then bring on the expensive placebo effect I say!

While we're at it lets get one of those Hyperbaric (sp) chambers that Stevie J is eating/sleeping/shitting in all this week. Lord knows we'd get our money's worth out of it!

 

[believe_it]

Load of shit all the evidence says you have to stay for a couple of months to get any benefit. Placebo.

I did quite a lot of reading on this around the time of Swans mid-year vacation. Two to three weeks wont have any training effect and if anything would have a negative effect as regards performance.

However altitude does actually promote healing of injuries much to my surprise. Still skeptical about the whole arrangement though.

 

[bfff]

I'm not convinced of the benefits of altitude training. However professional training camps are clearly beneficial. It doesn't have to be Arizona but there has to be better places to go than Kalgoorlie and Busselton.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Trusty Wikipedia tells me the benefits from altitude training only last a few weeks after your return to normal altitude. So not sure what use it would be for the season proper apart from being a team bonding trip.

I recall Swan himself saying the main benefit of him going to the US during the season was to recharge the batteries, get away from Melbourne and freshen up the mind. It was more a mental thing than providing physical benefits.

I believe Collingwood also have a "high altitude room" in Melbourne which they use to maintain their fitness.

 

[Bad Brain]

I remember a couple Collingwood players, including Daisy Thomas, believing in it enough to fork out their own cash to stay longer.

Even if it is a placebo I say we'd be stupid not to do it.

 

[theGav56]

I believe Collingwood also have a "high altitude room" in Melbourne which they use to maintain their fitness.

Third floor. Not high enough.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Placebo,s work. That is why there is an effect.

By recruiting Lyon, appointing a specialist Stoppage Coach, recruiting Clark, and looking at high alt training, there is a clear message that no stone willl be left unturned in a quest for success. That is not placebo.

im not sure that we are looking at altitude training, i was just bringing it up for discussion after i saw swans second half of the year votes.... and those saying you need to do it for long periods, given that the pies have a high altitude training room, they would have access to the benefits all year long... im not educated on the subject enough to give an opinion either way, id hope we would atleast be looking into it even if it were to make us 0.5% fitter

 

[PurpleGreenRed]

im not sure that we are looking at altitude training, i was just bringing it up for discussion after i saw swans second half of the year votes.... and those saying you need to do it for long periods, given that the pies have a high altitude training room, they would have access to the benefits all year long... im not educated on the subject enough to give an opinion either way, id hope we would atleast be looking into it even if it were to make us 0.5% fitter

Our whole fitness centre needs to be looked at. I believe its one of our biggest failings. Lyon could only go as far to say it was average. I think he was being generous. We need state of the art if we are to compete. Back to Basics I think.