Hille, Bellchambers

[Number 10]

With Hille, Ryder and Bellchambers all worthy of a spot in the 18 at Essendon, I put a question towards the know-alls in this forum.

Could the pies snag Hille or Bellchambers?

What are their contract status' and what are your thoughts on their willingness to stick around at the Bombers when, inevitably, one has to be dropped to stop what happened on the weekend.

Personally, I'd love either one of them, Hille is a bona fide elite ruckman and Bellchambers is looking like having his breakout year. It's just a matter of if we can get them and what would we give Essendon?

 

[mattys123]

Hille is a year younger then Josh Fraser, and is coming off a knee reco, so he isn't even worth chasing, and Essendon won't be letting Bellchambers go.

I'd take BC if we could get him, but almost no chance we can, as we have to spend money just to maintain our playing list, let alone add to it.

 

[Markfs]

gee...that doesnt give me much room to move. Maybe we could swap Wood for Bellchambers and we could throw in Mick so Hirdy can have two premiership coaches as assistants..

 

[Ed D]

IIRC we asked about Hille a few years ago before we got Wood but he only used it to drive his contract up to stay at the Bombers which was where he wanted to stay. Ryder won't leave and while Bellchambers is doing well in the ruck this year, he's not so great around the ground and I don't think it'd be wise going after him. I'd rather persist with Wood or try and get someone different if we need to.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Bellchambers will be Essendon's first ruck for the next 10 years. As someone else said, why would you want Hille who's a year younger than Josh Fraser and coming off a knee reco. Ryder's the interesting one for me, as he crowds the forward line around Hurley. Either Essendon trades him at the end of the year for a high draft pick or they find a role for Ryder that compliments Hurley. Either way Collingwood wouldn't be interested in Hille or Ryder.

 

[Thommo 42]

Bellchambers is the best of the 3 of them on current form, no chance of getting any of them imo.

Hamish Macintosh should be the target

 

[thecig]

Had this exact thought watching the game, like the look of Bellchambers, but as others have said he'll be the bomber's ruckman for the next 10 years.

 

[BlackWhite]

Bellchambers is the best of the 3 of them on current form, no chance of getting any of them imo.

Hamish Macintosh should be the target

Neither Hille or Bellchambers.

Agree that MacIntosh should be the target, but i'm pretty sure he signed a deal last year. Besides we have a few more years before we need to worry before Jolly retires.

 

[jonesy86]

I'm happy to wait until Jolly has retired and then cherry pick another quality ruckman or hope Ceglar develops into a quality ruck.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Hille to GWS

 

[Danny_CFC]

Hille is a year younger then Josh Fraser, and is coming off a knee reco, so he isn't even worth chasing, and Essendon won't be letting Bellchambers go.

I'd take BC if we could get him, but almost no chance we can, as we have to spend money just to maintain our playing list, let alone add to it.

Fraser is younger then Hille.

 

[MarkT2]

Hille is too old gven we have Jolly. Bellchambers looks a good ruckman but Essendon won't let him go and they can't have salary cap problems these days. No way they'd let Ryder go either. The only way he'd be out of Essendon is if one of the new clubs offerred him a massive pay rise.

We have Jolly while we have him. After that, if Wood doesn't improve we might need to find another mature ruckman wanting to move as a free agent.

 

[Knightmare]

I bought up a similar thread earlier this year because I did have questions on Jolly. From around round 20 last year seemed to be carrying injury and slowing down some, which is very worrying. And his early season form + missing games confirms my beliefs. So it is something critically important to have planned out for both our long and short term success as a club. For now Wood can come in for a couple of games each year to play, but he isn't the ruckman you want out there in a final because he isn't at this stage anywhere more than a depth ruckman unfortunately.

Hille is too old and for me even last year had doubts on his longetivity. No point adding a player as old as Darren Jolly and effectively downgrading.

Bellchambers is an interesting one.

My preference re. ruckman is wait till Jolly gives a clear indication that he is set to retire or close to, then trade into the best ruckman available (assuming Cam Wood doesn't develop which at the moment appears likely). So by that time it might be one of: Bellchambers, D.Simpson (Geelong), Z.Clarke (Freo) or someone else who develops all of a sudden and establishes themselves as clearly an AFL quality ruckman who might come onto the market rather than another project (ala Wood) or through a high draft pick (ala Fraser) because at this point in time we have no evidence to suggest that we can develop our own ruckman. So while we can't develop, we must trade agressively if we want to maintain our edge on the competition.

 

[The Get Up Kid]

I'm happy to wait until Jolly has retired and then cherry pick another quality ruckman or hope Ceglar develops into a quality ruck.

Is Ceglar a chance. I know he's young and just got here but what are the early thoughts on him? Is he athletic or just a pure ruckman?

 

[Number 10]

My preference re. ruckman is wait till Jolly gives a clear indication that he is set to retire or close to, then trade into the best ruckman available (assuming Cam Wood doesn't develop which at the moment appears likely). So by that time it might be one of: Bellchambers, D.Simpson (Geelong), Z.Clarke (Freo) or someone else who develops all of a sudden and establishes themselves as clearly an AFL quality ruckman who might come onto the market rather than another project (ala Wood) or through a high draft pick (ala Fraser) because at this point in time we have no evidence to suggest that we can develop our own ruckman. So while we can't develop, we must trade agressively if we want to maintain our edge on the competition.

Do you think we would have a look at Broc McCauley, Luenberger or Mitch Clarke? Surely once J Brown comes back they won't be playing all three.

 

[TradeDraft]

I'm happy to wait until Jolly has retired and then cherry pick another quality ruckman or hope Ceglar develops into a quality ruck.

Well Ceglar has shown some really good signs in his 1st 3 Games in the VFL so far and could develop in to a Star Ruckman down the Track

 

[Knightmare]

Do you think we would have a look at Broc McCauley, Luenberger or Mitch Clarke? Surely once J Brown comes back they won't be playing all three.

Certainly an option, but I would say chances on all of the above are slim.

The best chance of trading into a ruckman is for one at a team where there are very deep ruck stocks, Brisbane is certainly one of those sides which does make them an interesting club to discuss.

It really depends on how high they are on McCauley and what role they see Clarke playing long term.

McCauley is in his mid 20s, was a late rookie pick in 09, delisted and then re-rookied. At the time I was very surprised to see him delisted, but seeing him re-rookied has certainly proven to be a great move! And the kid is showing promise which is great to see. For me not someone you trade into, but potentially as a depth guy could maybe be someone you look at if delisted. At this stage I would say Brisbane favour retaining McCauley, minimum as depth because he can ruck or play forward which is handy.

Clarke with Jonathan Brown aging, Fev gone and no other 2nd forward option could end up being a KPF for all we know. It would be interesting to see how highly he is rated internally and exactly what role they think he would be best suited to. Personally for me he is clearly best as a no.1 ruckman instead of a forward, which with Leuenberger is a problem because that is the role that both are best at. The one thing with Clarke is that I have heard rumours being a WA born, he would if he does move have more of an interest returning to his home state, so perhaps a trade to Fremantle some time down the track could be the more likely scenario there once Sandilands retires. So even if he wants to move at some point I don't think Collingwood is necessarily the destination for him.

Leuenberger is very talented, but also very injury prone and in having him as the no.1 ruckman you really want a backup to be able to come in and play that no.1 role like a Clarke or McCauley. I think he will if he can stay injury free have a very good career for Brisbane. He seems to be the one Brisbane are most dediced to due to height, upside and his very high draft position in a very strong draft so I don't see a potential trade coming up at any stage.

Then Charman will probably retire at seasons end with all the injuries he has had which is another reason why I would say Brisbane will lean towards retaining their currently very strong ruck stocks.

 

[Jesus Baulks]

I think we need to focus on getting a decent ruck coach before we worry about offloading all our draft picks to bring in yet another young, talented ruckman only to have them completely stagnate once they step into our system.

 

[Number 10]

Thanks Knightmare, very thorough response.
I have nothing else to add :S.

I agree with Jesus Baulks, if it is a coaching thing that our rucks haven't developed then maybe we could look at poaching a good ruck coach, or maybe looking at drafting an extremely athletic ruckman (Naitanui, Cox, Zac Smith type), hard to find but it seems our ruckman lumber around too much and too slow.

 

[Knightmare]

Thanks Knightmare, very thorough response.
I have nothing else to add :S.

I agree with Jesus Baulks, if it is a coaching thing that our rucks haven't developed then maybe we could look at poaching a good ruck coach, or maybe looking at drafting an extremely athletic ruckman (Naitanui, Cox, Zac Smith type), hard to find but it seems our ruckman lumber around too much and too slow.

Sydney probably have consistantly had the best ruck development program in recent times. Port Adelaide during the early 00s. Geelong have been solid in this department amongst others. So they would be great examples to follow.

Certainly should be a priority to add a specialist ruck coach who can help these kids develop (Ceglar + whoever we draft if future seasons).
If I was to draft a ruckman a couple of years down the track, I'd probably go through the rookie draft for a power type ruckman rather than a freak athlete with a high pick (unless I am completely sold), because ruckman are so much more difficult to select because they develop so much later (often from 24 years of age) and you don't always know exactly what you are going to end up with. The clear top 2 premier ruckman in the competition: Sandilands and Cox were both rookie selections. Then Jolly and Mumford amongst other quality ruckman also came from the rookie draft.

My target type/ ideal replacement though for Jolly would be a player in that 24-30 age group who is a top 5 ruckman by position and in their prime. With the introduction of the sub rule, more ruckman should become available (Maybe Moran, Minson, Blake amongst others) due to reduced demand for numbers on each list. But as this season has shown the most important thing is having a top 5 ruckman. Just looking at something simple indication of product like the dreamteam/supercoach points some of those very top ruckman are having profound influences on the contest (Cox + Sandilands in particular) are having an incredible influence on games and their teams because of that increased gametime and reduced reliance on the no.2 ruckman (now for many clubs a versatile "Leigh Brown type").

So if (in 2-3 years time or whenever Jolly retires. a top 5 ruckman says "I want to move back to Victoria" or similar) it's vital we pounce. Put a package of high draft picks on the table with perhaps a player who isn't vital to our plans.

Always worthwhile having a plan like this mapped out in list management when you feel there is an area where you club could potentially be vulnerable at some point, which right now would have to be the ruck division. Will be interesting to see how the club responds to the situation 2-3 years down the track.

 

[The Get Up Kid]

I think we need to focus on getting a decent ruck coach before we worry about offloading all our draft picks to bring in yet another young, talented ruckman only to have them completely stagnate once they step into our system.

Might have missed this somewhere but who is our Ruck coach? Who else is involved with their development?

Is Monky any good for Hawthorn? Why did we never get him?

 

[the mighty T]

Do you think we would have a look at Broc McCauley, Luenberger or Mitch Clarke? Surely once J Brown comes back they won't be playing all three.

Broc is still really raw and mostly unproven. Luenberger is one i cant see the lions letting go of.

As much as i'd like Clarke i can see him in GWS colours next season

I think in a year or two we should start looking at someone like a macevoy (spelling?) or higher up the tree at someone like mumford.

But while jolly is still more than serviceable i dont think it should be our main focus. Lets see how Ceglar goes, still a chance for Shae, theres big Keefe who can play ruck and of course Wood.

 

[The Get Up Kid]

Dane Swan said Lachlan Keefe will eventually play a role like Dean Cox. My mouth dropped when he said that!

 

[Zahki]

Have we given up on Wood or what?

 

[Rowdy Brown]

Have we given up on Wood or what?

Exactly. How about we give the poor bugga a go first. He wasn't that bad against Richmond considering he spent pretty well most of last year developing more in the Ressies. I loved the emotion he showed after the GF win. I'm backing him in to have a good game.