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Holmes

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The club seems to favour going in with one genuine ruck and having Bruce going through occasionally (which next year will probably be Carlisle as Brucey said that was originally the plan) so I don't think we'd play two of Longer, Pierce or Holmes. We only played both Pierce and Hickey vs Carlton in round 12 due to both Riewoldt and McCartin not playing so it wouldn't make us top heavy. However assuming Bruce, McCartin, Membrey and Riewoldt are all playing there won't be room for two genuine rucks.

If Longer gets back to his 2015 form then he's far and away the best option if Hickey gets injured in my opinion- just struggled returning to form after his shoulder and concussion issues this year.
 

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He's done it before and can certainly hold his own.
But you'd hope that Billy has gotten himself right and will be available next season.

Hopefully someone has a bit of a breakout year and develops an aggressive forward game, we might get the chance to experiment with two in the team.
 
JG22 said:
You'd hope Billy Longer could do the lone ruck role if Hick went down.
He did it 2015.
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I hope Billy can get his body right again, be interesting what they do if both Hickey and Billy get fit and in form at same time. Say Hickey is playing well, gets injured for a week or two, Billy comes in and plays great, then Hickey overcomes injury . Interesting problem to have.
 
Personally I think Holmes is a better ruckman than Longer (gets more hits outs than both Longer or Hickey) but getting possessions is his problem. His average is below 5 per game, Longer is around 8/9 and Hickey is around 12/13 but increasing.

The choice of 2nd ruck is complicated by the fact that we will only play one ruckman in the ones which means do we continue to play all three (Longer, Holmes and Peirce) in the two's? Just doesn't work on any level and should be abandoned in my opinion.

I'm certain that Holmes was given a contract because they were prepared to trade Billy if a reasonable offer came along and then use Holmes as the primary back-up to Hickey - doesn't make sense any other way.

Might have cost them an extra $100k and a list place for Holmes for a year but was reasonable insurance if someone had wanted Longer.

I suspect that next year Holmes may end up being a rather well paid development league player unless Hickey or Longer get a serious injury.
 
He's very good at getting tap outs directed where they should go. The guys playing under him seem to tell him where they want the ball so must trust that he's likely to get first use. A team with a strong midfield would love Holmes, Geelong for example would get a heap more centre clearances with him in the middle. We may've contracted him to trade him even.
 
gringo2011 said:
We may've contracted him to trade him even.
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Yes I agree that's highly possible as well.

Given he was signed up a week or so after both Naitinui and Lycett went down maybe the brains trust were thinking (along with Longer option) that maybe West Coast might be prepared to give up a defender for a interim ruckman.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Yes I agree that's highly possible as well.

Given he was signed up a week or so after both Naitinui and Lycett went down maybe the brains trust were thinking (along with Longer option) that maybe West Coast might be prepared to give up a defender for a interim ruckman.
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I was surprised they didn't go after him, he seemed a good replacement, he would win 70% of his hit outs and their on ball brigade would do the rest. I reckon they are only borderline chance at finals now. He probably could have been the difference between 9th and 8th or something.
 
Punter! said:
I think you'll find Carlisle at 198cm will help out in the ruck as well. There's no way we play 2 of Longer Hickey and Holmes in the 1 side.
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Ruck/Forward's are easy to manage. Ruckman goes to bench, Forward moves to the middle, leaving opponents wondering what to do.
Ruck/Defender. Ruckman goes to bench. Defender leaves Jesse Hogan all on his own while he goes to do the ruckwork. Doh.
Can be done but needs to be managed carefully.
 

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SaintsSeptember said:
Ruck/Forward's are easy to manage. Ruckman goes to bench, Forward moves to the middle, leaving opponents wondering what to do.
Ruck/Defender. Ruckman goes to bench. Defender leaves Jesse Hogan all on his own while he goes to do the ruckwork. Doh.
Can be done but needs to be managed carefully.
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Or ... Brown stays on Hogan, where he was all along, and Carlisle follows Melbourne's ruck/fwd (Spencer/Pedersen?) into the ruck and returns with him when he returns to the fwd line.
 
saintbatty said:
Or ... Brown stays on Hogan, where he was all along, and Carlisle follows Melbourne's ruck/fwd (Spencer/Pedersen?) into the ruck and returns with him when he returns to the fwd line.
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Fair enough, but it also gives the other team an advantage if their ruckman is a bit fitter. ie what if Hickey is stuffed and the other ruckman doesn't go off?
 
Holmes has played five games and I dont believe he had a second ruckman assisting in any of them. He is already our best tap ruckman, mainly because of his leap. He is not taking enough marks around the ground yet. Most of his possessions come at ground level where he is very good for a man of his size. If he should gain the confidence to start taking marks, he would be a beauty.
 
saintbatty said:
Hickey spent 87% time on ground in 2016, exactly the same as Stef Martin and Todd Goldstein, both notoriously fit solo ruckman. I think we're safe with that.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2016&rt=LA&st=TG
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Yeah i realize Hickey has a great tank. I'm thinking more in general terms.

Scenario: Ruckman cops a knock and needs to come off. What happens?

The reason that Fwd/Rucks are in demand is that they are just more versatile.
Yes you could do the backman, if we had someone like Sam Gilbert in the team to man up on the fwd opponent when the tall back goes into the ruck but it DOES take more management.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Yeah i realize Hickey has a great tank. I'm thinking more in general terms.

Scenario: Ruckman cops a knock and needs to come off. What happens?

The reason that Fwd/Rucks are in demand is that they are just more versatile.
Yes you could do the backman, if we had someone like Sam Gilbert in the team to man up on the fwd opponent when the tall back goes into the ruck but it DOES take more management.
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To be honest, I'd rather lose Carlisle from the backs and run a smaller back line (like the Dogs or us last year) in the event of an injury to the ruckman, than lose a forward and disrupt the forward line structures.
 

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If you look at Holmes's 2 games a the back end of 2016, you get a pretty good idea of what he is capable of.

Against Hampson (a spud who goes OK in the hitouts but offers nothing much around the ground) he pretty much broke even. Holmes won the hitouts, but neither had much impact on the match as a whole though.

But then against Stef Martin (Decent footballer who just happens to be a ruckman), Holmes was poor, and Martin was influential around the ground despite playing in one of the poorest lineups of the last decade (Martin had 36 H/Os and 21 touches, Holmes 34 H/Os and 2 touches)

So Holmes's suitability to play one out will be horses for courses, depending on the opposition ruck setup.

I can't see him getting in front of either Longer or Hickey if all 3 have decent preseason campaigns, and eventually Pierce will pass Holmes as his body matures more.
 
chris_h_11 said:
If you look at Holmes's 2 games a the back end of 2016, you get a pretty good idea of what he is capable of.

Against Hampson (a spud who goes OK in the hitouts but offers nothing much around the ground) he pretty much broke even. Holmes won the hitouts, but neither had much impact on the match as a whole though.

But then against Stef Martin (Decent footballer who just happens to be a ruckman), Holmes was poor, and Martin was influential around the ground despite playing in one of the poorest lineups of the last decade (Martin had 36 H/Os and 21 touches, Holmes 34 H/Os and 2 touches)

So Holmes's suitability to play one out will be horses for courses, depending on the opposition ruck setup.

I can't see him getting in front of either Longer or Hickey if all 3 have decent preseason campaigns, and eventually Pierce will pass Holmes as his body matures more.
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I was at both games and he seemed to give good service that didn't show up in the stats. Especially against Richmond where he was getting the ball down to the right spots. The mids all tell him where they want the ball and he gets it there a good potion of the time. I was happy with his tap work and actually think it's the best of all our rucks.
 

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