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Funkalicous said:
As far as I'm concerned, if we don't deserve another pick then no club ever will. We've finished last twice in a row now with a measly 7 wins in that time. Plus the salary cap penalties were an absolute disgrace. Losing picks is fair, but losing a pick that is completely circumstantial to Carlton's 2002 season is unjust. The AFL had set a precedent that they won't be able to uphold. They simply cannot take a priority pick off every team that breaches the salary cap.
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Given the new rules i don't believe you deserve the first two picks in the drafts, id be happy to see carlton get the 1st and the extra last pick in round one. (the following year 2007 if your still there then the first two picks in the draft)Look at the father son rule it changes all the time, theres always some one who benifits or pays for the change.

I believe Carlton deserved the punishment the AFL handed out for the salary cap breachs. I do believe it should of been spread out over more drafts, you should only be allow to lose one Draft pick per draft! That way it still gives clubs a chance to recruit decent players and rebuild.

Any way the afl will decided im sure, good luck!
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Sooner or later, all lies are true they say. We were not over by $1 million. We would have been over by that much in 2003 if we didn't force the players to take a pay cut. We paid out O'Reilly and agreed to extra payments to SOS and Bradley. That was all that lead to our huge penalties.

That makes sense. Pay the bill for something we bought. The only flag that fell under the cap era was 95, the rest are not in any doubt. Ignoramuses will be what they are though.

I would like to see your response to this. It's a race between your response time and the admins when they boot your sorry arse.
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So you would have been over by 1 million if CFC wasn't caught. Hmmm.... a virtuous position indeed.

As for the comment about buying your cups - so much money spent on recruiting the cream to win premierships in the past and now putting the hand out for money. How the mighty have fallen, particularly as CFC's drafting in the 90's was woeful. Carlton have traditionally bought their powerful status but when it came down to drafting the old methods weren't applicable. Carlton pushed their luck and were caught big time. That's all it was in reference to.

I'm sorry if supporters here on this board are offended, but you cheated, you got caught, you pay your dues. I'm just disgusted that the CFC are trying to weasel their way out of the punishment. Its not everyone else's fault the club built stands that have little more than scrap value. Its sad to see the Carlton I grew up knowing is the shambles it is today, begging for scraps.

Otherwise, take the post in the spirit of light-hearted banter. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'd expect nothing less the slipper sunk in. Be happy with Gibbs. But you don't deserve better just because you're in a hole that you've dug for yourself.

Don't take it as provocative, just as a call to do the honourable thing.
 
Funkalicous said:
As far as I'm concerned, if we don't deserve another pick then no club ever will. We've finished last twice in a row now with a measly 7 wins in that time. Plus the salary cap penalties were an absolute disgrace. Losing picks is fair, but losing a pick that is completely circumstantial to Carlton's 2002 season is unjust. The AFL had set a precedent that they won't be able to uphold. They simply cannot take a priority pick off every team that breaches the salary cap.
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I agree totally.
 
Can I just ask, how is stripping a team of draft picks for cheating the salary cap unfair?

It means that Carlton deliberately tried to cheat the salary cap by ensuring that all their top profile players could stay. Unlike the other law-abiding clubs, they intentionally tried to rort the system and were suitably punished by depriving them of the picks for players who ultimately would have benefitted most if the 'cheating' was allowed to go on?
 

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philhawk said:
Can I just ask, how is stripping a team of draft picks for cheating the salary cap unfair?

It means that Carlton deliberately tried to cheat the salary cap by ensuring that all their top profile players could stay. Unlike the other law-abiding clubs, they intentionally tried to rort the system and were suitably punished by depriving them of the picks for players who ultimately would have benefitted most if the 'cheating' was allowed to go on?
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Putting to side the argument about how the punishment far outstripped anything any other club in the same situation recieved, it was unfair because they stripped us of our first and second round picks for two year, and then just took our priority pick away when that was never a part of any fine the AFL devised for us.
 
gandaal said:
Putting to side the argument about how the punishment far outstripped anything any other club in the same situation recieved, it was unfair because they stripped us of our first and second round picks for two year, and then just took our priority pick away when that was never a part of any fine the AFL devised for us.
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Who was the engineer behind that? :confused:
 
gandaal said:
Putting to side the argument about how the punishment far outstripped anything any other club in the same situation recieved, it was unfair because they stripped us of our first and second round picks for two year, and then just took our priority pick away when that was never a part of any fine the AFL devised for us.
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If the contention is that the Blues were unfairly punished over two years, I'll ask whether the salary cap breaches took place over one season or more than likely, was a systematic strategy employed over several seasons.

I think you'll find it was the latter, hence the gravity of punishment.

I'll put it another way, a thief has committed bank robbery in the past and is nabbed for shop-lifting. They're going to charge him for everything he's done, not just the latest offence he's committed.
 
kriles76 said:
If the contention is that the Blues were unfairly punished over two years, I'll ask whether the salary cap breaches took place over one season or more than likely, was a systematic strategy employed over several seasons.

I think you'll find it was the latter, hence the gravity of punishment.

I'll put it another way, a thief has committed bank robbery in the past and is nabbed for shop-lifting. They're going to charge him for everything he's done, not just the latest offence he's committed.
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The crime was not bad enough to warrant destroying carlton for many years. Its not like we were winning premierships at the time anyway. We were last.
 
Ok we have made our submission to the AFL last week.. and they have been given 7 days to reply with an answer.

If they knock this back.. you can be sure the AFL do not want to lift a finger to help us.
Because the club is imploding.. and we need 'something'.
If they refuse we will have to take it 'elsewhere'.... which shouldnt matter of the AFL are trying to kill us off anyway.

Its really a case of watch this space. Should know more in a couple of days.
 
kriles76 said:
If the contention is that the Blues were unfairly punished over two years, I'll ask whether the salary cap breaches took place over one season or more than likely, was a systematic strategy employed over several seasons.

I think you'll find it was the latter, hence the gravity of punishment.

I'll put it another way, a thief has committed bank robbery in the past and is nabbed for shop-lifting. They're going to charge him for everything he's done, not just the latest offence he's committed.
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I see what you're getting at, and we were infact punished for past breaches. We had a suspended sentence that lost us our 2nd and 3rd round draft choices in 2002. They were right to take those away from us.
For the latest breach they upped the tempo by taking our 1st and 2nd round picks over 2 years. Hindsight would tell us that it was too harsh, but that isn't the issue. The problem was, the AFL took a draft pick which by they laws they created, wasn't theirs to take. - I'm speaking of the priority pick. I use the word "unjust" because by the precedent the AFL had set by taking away our priority pick, some clubs could be punished harder than others despite committing the same crime. Some clubs could be in a position to lose a priority pick, and other could not. Is that fair?
 
TheHeatleyStand said:
Ok we have made our submission to the AFL last week.. and they have been given 7 days to reply with an answer.

If they knock this back.. you can be sure the AFL do not want to lift a finger to help us.
Because the club is imploding.. and we need 'something'.
If they refuse we will have to take it 'elsewhere'.... which shouldnt matter of the AFL are trying to kill us off anyway.

Its really a case of watch this space. Should know more in a couple of days.
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With the AFL knowing Carlton's situation better than most, I guess now is the time that we'll discover their true intentions.

We're at the crossroads - Do the AFL want a strong Carlton or a dead Carlton?

.....
 
kriles76 said:
So you would have been over by 1 million if CFC wasn't caught. Hmmm.... a virtuous position indeed.
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Not necessarily, we had a new president who simply tallied up the 2003 contracts and realised we were in trouble and made the appropriate adjustments.

I'm sorry if supporters here on this board are offended, but you cheated, you got caught, you pay your dues. I'm just disgusted that the CFC are trying to weasel their way out of the punishment. Its not everyone else's fault the club built stands that have little more than scrap value. Its sad to see the Carlton I grew up knowing is the shambles it is today, begging for scraps.
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Go and tell your story on the main board. You agreed to the posting conditions when you registered here and you posted crap like you did above, regardless of your efforts to backtrack now.

Otherwise, take the post in the spirit of light-hearted banter. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'd expect nothing less the slipper sunk in. Be happy with Gibbs. But you don't deserve better just because you're in a hole that you've dug for yourself.
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And if we sunk the slipper on your team board, we would be at the mercy of the mod there too.

Don't take it as provocative, just as a call to do the honourable thing.
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And who are you again to tell us what to do?

It's a pity your diplomacy in this post didn't equate to the 'Truth Hurts' jibe and wooden spoon you sent to me via PM. That's pretty two-faced don't you think?
 

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philhawk said:
Can I just ask, how is stripping a team of draft picks for cheating the salary cap unfair?

It means that Carlton deliberately tried to cheat the salary cap by ensuring that all their top profile players could stay. Unlike the other law-abiding clubs, they intentionally tried to rort the system and were suitably punished by depriving them of the picks for players who ultimately would have benefitted most if the 'cheating' was allowed to go on?
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I don't think anyone here will try and tell you we didn't cheat. We did the crime and we were deservedly punished. What we are upset about though is the severity of the punishment.

What was so unfair about the punishment was the fact that it set a precedent which is almost impossible for them to uphold. If any other club had been caught cheating the salary cap in that season there would be no priority pick for them to remove. There is no consistency in this at all.

If you and your best friend are fined for fair evasion on a tram, however you have more money in your pocket at the time, is it fair that they fine you more? This is the exact same situation with us having a priority pick.

Couple this with the fact that at the time the punishment was handed out we had already bottomed out. By removing teh only means we had to getting out of the situation we were in has absolutely crushed us. The fact that weren't even allowed to trade into these rounds was a joke. Surely you can at least acknowledge the fact that there are errors and inconsistencies in the rushed penalties handed out by the AFL. By cirumstance we had received a priority pick that year and they decided that they would remove it, something which shouldn't have been allowed.

The issue in this whole matter is whether the AFL are game enough to admit that they ****ed us over in the severity of the penalites handed out. I'm not expecting the AFL to do this but if they do I will be a very happy boy.
 
The AFL won't give us the pick out of the goodness of their hearts. They will probably only do it if they think we have a potential legal case.
 
TheHeatleyStand said:
Ok we have made our submission to the AFL last week.. and they have been given 7 days to reply with an answer.

If they knock this back.. you can be sure the AFL do not want to lift a finger to help us.
Because the club is imploding.. and we need 'something'.
If they refuse we will have to take it 'elsewhere'.... which shouldnt matter of the AFL are trying to kill us off anyway.

Its really a case of watch this space. Should know more in a couple of days.
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Spot on mate, i have heard that the latest submission we have put to the AFL has not been knocked back straight away this time round. Previously when we had put forward a submission regarding this topic to the AFL it was flatly rejected without any hesitation. Read what you like into
that.......Has the AFL finally realised the penalties handed to us were in fact too harsh and that CFC has never fully recoverd from it. And before opposition supporters start writing back saying that we deserved what we got, we cheated etc. I agree we deserved what we got and we payed the price. But taking the priority pick from us in 2002 was wrong and injustice to the club.

Secondily if the AFL reject this latest submission, then it will be up to the board to explore other options ie: going to court. The questions is do the board have enough balls to take the AFL on if this fails? I hope so as we have nothing to lose and apparently we have a very strong case.......Could the board also be realising that this may be there saving grace come the December elections if they are able to obtain an extra pick for the club in this years national draft. Ask yourself that....
 
philhawk said:
Fair enough - but why then didn't Carlton ask for this last year when they also had Priority Picks?

Or was it the strength of this draft. :p :D
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Collins only left us in the middle of this season and he was too big a ******** to challenge the people who were paying his bills.

I like the conspiracy theory though, it's a good one. :D
 
Could the board also be realising that this may be there saving grace come the December elections if they are able to obtain an extra pick for the club in this years national draft. Ask yourself that....[/quote]

I think think winning the priority pick could definately safe the heads of some boardmembers who otherwse will have no chance of being re-elected. We should fight, fight and fight until we can fight no more.
 

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This is such a pipe dream...yet a nice pipe dream to have. I just wonder why the board rolled over so easy to the AFL on the Pagan thing...what was it that made everyone vote to keep him when he was gone...Surely the AFL saying "we gave you $1.5mil ra ra ra " wouldnt be enough there is something there..could it be something about the pp...also we have all been angered by the lack of direction and apparant conflict of interest etc of collins, that he just let the club roll over on the draft penalties etc... so perhaps its no coincedence that now he is gone something is being done about it and is he the one responsible for not pushing the fact straight up that a pp was not part of the sanctions, I mean how did we miss that?
 
Also if these rumors are true when do you think we will be hearing more about them in the media? Would Carlton come out and say they made a request before it had been accepted?
 

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