If Cloke Does Leave.....

[Number 10]

Don't agree with the calls for Thomas to be traded but boy does his attitude stink at the moment.

Too busy trying to take speckies and playing golf to pull his finger out, get fit and play some good footy. Swan comes back from injury gets 35+ possies every week and wins a brownlow, Thomas comes back from injury and can hardly get a touch and looks very lazy on the ground. Where has his desperation gone? Every time I saw him last year he was absolutely spent at stoppages, but would have the will to go as hard as he could again, this year he just looks lazy.

Before anyone jumps on me, I'll say that I know he is worth a lot to the team and will bounce back soon, but not unless he starts putting the team first and play some desperate football. We need him firing against Adelaide.

If people can call for swan to be dropped in round 3-4 I think I can say that without too much conjecture.

 

[Scodog10]

For the time being? Four injury-interrupted games removed from winning AA selection, a premiership in 2010 and shunning more lucrative contract offers from rival clubs to stay with us, you're prepared to cut him some slack for the time being?!

Your generosity is astounding.

He's averaging 19 possessions a game in 2012 compared to 24 in 2010 and 26 in 2011. That's a worrying drop in performance.

Also he wasn't injured in the first 3 weeks of the season until very late against Carlton. And aside from a 5 minute burst against Richmond those 3 weeks were average at best for a guy on that sort of coin.

What should we be saying? "Oh Daisy we all love you you're aloud to cruise for the next month while Steele, Beamsy and Pendles pick up the slack with Swanny missing." He's played 140 games, is in the top 3-5% of highest paid players in the game and based on current performance is nowhere near that level.

Where's the manic run gone? The penetrating kicking? The desperate clearances? The high flying marks? The running bounces? They were all Thomas trademarks in 2010-2011.

As I said due to the recent injury he deserves to be cut some slack, however if he doesn't start producing something near his best within the next month or so then the pressure will come not only from the supporters but the media won't hold back!

I hope to god he comes out and blitzes this weekend because he is easily my favorite Collingwood player, but from what I've personally seen in 2012 that would seem unlikely.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

I know this thread is completely getting off topic so i will keep this short.

Does anyone think that Thomas is the sort of player that needs to feel wanted and coaching attention and that's what mick did with him. Bit like a father figure. However bucks is the complete opposite and wants the players to look after themselves. It ia definitely why pendles will thrive under bucks.

Just a thought as i am definitely no psychologist.

 

[jonbe54]

I know this thread is completely getting off topic so i will keep this short.

Does anyone think that Thomas is the sort of player that needs to feel wanted and coaching attention and that's what mick did with him. Bit like a father figure. However bucks is the complete opposite and wants the players to look after themselves. It ia definitely why pendles will thrive under bucks.

Just a thought as i am definitely no psychologist.

Daisy has had an injury interrupted season so far, doesn't take long for the long knives to come out - and they say the Essendon board eat their young

 

[Tbone McGraw]

Daisy has had an injury interrupted season so far, doesn't take long for the long knives to come out - and they say the Essendon board eat their young

Yeah i hope it didn't look like i was attacking daisy. He will come good.

However, re your 2nd point, daisy can't be treated like a young player anymore. He is close enough to a senior player and should be judged as such.

 

[jonbe54]

Yeah i hope it didn't look like i was attacking daisy. He will come good.

However, re your 2nd point, daisy can't be treated like a young player anymore. He is close enough to a senior player and should be judged as such.

Sorry T-Bone didn't mean that Daisy should be treated as a kid, expressed myself poorly there. What I should have said is that Essendon eat their own, meaning that they turn on their own players at the slightest excuse.

I can see you aren't a hater and have a balanced approach, some others however are a different story.

 

[bushdog89]

I know this thread is completely getting off topic so i will keep this short.

Does anyone think that Thomas is the sort of player that needs to feel wanted and coaching attention and that's what mick did with him. Bit like a father figure. However bucks is the complete opposite and wants the players to look after themselves. It ia definitely why pendles will thrive under bucks.

Just a thought as i am definitely no psychologist.

Fair opinion, just don't agree in the slightest. If a 24-25yo man needs a father figure to get him out of bed and on the track then there are problems. Yes they should be able to take care of themselves. The hurt of losing a flag last year should be enough on its own to get them going. I agree thomas needs to lift in the next month. Injury is a decent excuse at the moment, but not for much longer. Go pies!

 

[ash84]

Geez if we traded every player who had a few average games after injuries we would have no players.......

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

It would be down to the bottom 4 for a few years when he goes

This is a myth.

Many could pose an argument for improvement as a matter of fact.

The forward line is the ONE area of the ground where you can afford to lose a key player.

Geelong and West Coast are perfect exmaples of flag winning sides without a decent key forward, if one at all (07 and 09 for Geelong). The Bulldogs came within a whisker a few times without a recognised forward. Carlton have been improving slowly since Fevola left, again, no forward.

Forward lines can become more dangerous when it's unpredictable, and let's not forget the number of talls in our side that can go through there. Krakouer needs to come back, young players will come through, and hopefully Paine develops quick.

We'd be fine without Cloke. Hell, I reckon we'd even be fine if we lost Reid.

My number 1 concern was Pendlebury, and we kept him. Everyone else is a bonus. I know people say midfielders are a dime a dozen, but not like Pendles they're not. When Pendlebury doesn't play, or is down on form, we generally lose. Hell, it took a solo effort from Pendles to get us over the line against the Cats.

 

[Pennypacker]

He's averaging 19 possessions a game in 2012 compared to 24 in 2010 and 26 in 2011. That's a worrying drop in performance.

Also he wasn't injured in the first 3 weeks of the season until very late against Carlton. And aside from a 5 minute burst against Richmond those 3 weeks were average at best for a guy on that sort of coin.

What should we be saying? "Oh Daisy we all love you you're aloud to cruise for the next month while Steele, Beamsy and Pendles pick up the slack with Swanny missing." He's played 140 games, is in the top 3-5% of highest paid players in the game and based on current performance is nowhere near that level.

Where's the manic run gone? The penetrating kicking? The desperate clearances? The high flying marks? The running bounces? They were all Thomas trademarks in 2010-2011.

As I said due to the recent injury he deserves to be cut some slack, however if he doesn't start producing something near his best within the next month or so then the pressure will come not only from the supporters but the media won't hold back!

I hope to god he comes out and blitzes this weekend because he is easily my favorite Collingwood player, but from what I've personally seen in 2012 that would seem unlikely.

I'd prefer to say what you flippantly suggested than say something like:

"Sorry Daisy but after a few ordinary games this year we are considering trading you. Even though you poured your heart and soul into driving the club to a premiership and became one of the top 10 elite last year, and regardless of the fact that your form has dropped due to an injury intererupted season we cant ignore the fact that you have played 3 average games and cant wait another couple of weeks for you to get your fitness and form back"

Do you realise how stupid you guys sound.

Give us a break jeez

 

[Thommo 42]

Geelong and West Coast are perfect exmaples of flag winning sides without a decent key forward, if one at all (07 and 09 for Geelong). The Bulldogs came within a whisker a few times without a recognised forward. Carlton have been improving slowly since Fevola left, again, no forward.

Thasts a myth. I assume you mean WCE '06 and Geelong '07, but I digress.

When WCE won the flag in '06. Quentin Lynch kicked 65 goals playing key forward. When Geelong won the flag in '07, Cam Mooney kicked 67 goals and was All-Australian CHF.

To suggest they won flags without a key forward is quite simply absurd.

Your points about WB and Carlton are also pertinent. WB went close, but the missing ingredient was a key forward. Had they got Hall 2 years earlier than they did, when Aker, Johnson, Cooney etc were still firing they probably would have won a flag.

The Blues missing ingredient is a key forward (and heart)

 

[jonbe54]

Thasts a myth. I assume you mean WCE '06 and Geelong '07, but I digress.

When WCE won the flag in '06. Quentin Lynch kicked 65 goals playing key forward. When Geelong won the flag in '07, Cam Mooney kicked 67 goals and was All-Australian CHF.

To suggest they won flags without a key forward is quite simply absurd.

Your points about WB and Carlton are also pertinent. WB went close, but the missing ingredient was a key forward. Had they got Hall 2 years earlier than they did, when Aker, Johnson, Cooney etc were still firing they probably would have won a flag.

The Blues missing ingredient is a key forward (and heart)

The blues missing ingredient is the inability to play by the rules or believe that they are in any way guilty for what they have done.

They've been playing outside the rules for so long they have come to believe that they make their own rules, now that their shit tanking picks are panning out to be pea hearts their own arrogance is coming home to roost big time.

Could happen to a more worthy bunch

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Thasts a myth. I assume you mean WCE '06 and Geelong '07, but I digress.

When WCE won the flag in '06. Quentin Lynch kicked 65 goals playing key forward. When Geelong won the flag in '07, Cam Mooney kicked 67 goals and was All-Australian CHF.

To suggest they won flags without a key forward is quite simply absurd.

Your points about WB and Carlton are also pertinent. WB went close, but the missing ingredient was a key forward. Had they got Hall 2 years earlier than they did, when Aker, Johnson, Cooney etc were still firing they probably would have won a flag.

The Blues missing ingredient is a key forward (and heart)

Even an average forward could kick that many goals being fed by 2 of the best midfields EVER.

Quentin Lynch and Cam Mooney are both spuds, made to look better by the midfield feeding them.

 

[Thommo 42]

They are both key forwards who kicked 60+ goals in a Premiership year and were integral to their teams structure.

Our midfield is pretty handy....

 

[Scodog10]

I'd prefer to say what you flippantly suggested than say something like:

"Sorry Daisy but after a few ordinary games this year we are considering trading you. Even though you poured your heart and soul into driving the club to a premiership and became one of the top 10 elite last year, and regardless of the fact that your form has dropped due to an injury intererupted season we cant ignore the fact that you have played 3 average games and cant wait another couple of weeks for you to get your fitness and form back"

Do you realise how stupid you guys sound.

Give us a break jeez

Please point out where I said he should be traded... Because I'm most certainly not of that opinion.

Melbourne look like having 3 picks in the top 15 this year and if they offered all 3 to us for him I'd knock it back he's just so important to us when firing. If you look at the elements of our season so far the one ingredient that's been missing which has caused us to look like a shadow of the 2010-2011 teams is Daisy.

We've played all over Geelong, Richmond, Essendon, Port and to a lesser extent the Bulldogs but didn't put any of them away because we were lacking that X factor that both he and Krakouer provide. When we got it in a 5 minute burst against the Tigers you saw the results...

I'm merely pointing out that his form has been somewhat lackluster and if it continues he'd deserve any scrutiny that comes his way.

We don't have to put blind faith in our players either. We are actually able to question their performance from time to time without it being linked back to some absurdity about him being traded.

 

[Pennypacker]

Please point out where I said he should be traded... Because I'm most certainly not of that opinion.

Melbourne look like having 3 picks in the top 15 this year and if they offered all 3 to us for him I'd knock it back he's just so important to us when firing. If you look at the elements of our season so far the one ingredient that's been missing which has caused us to look like a shadow of the 2010-2011 teams is Daisy.

We've played all over Geelong, Richmond, Essendon, Port and to a lesser extent the Bulldogs but didn't put any of them away because we were lacking that X factor that both he and Krakouer provide. When we got it in a 5 minute burst against the Tigers you saw the results...

I'm merely pointing out that his form has been somewhat lackluster and if it continues he'd deserve any scrutiny that comes his way.

We don't have to put blind faith in our players either. We are actually able to question their performance from time to time without it being linked back to some absurdity about him being traded.

Fair enough, apologies if I misinterpreted what you were saying. He is my favourite player so i may have jumped the gun a bit and didnt read your whole comment.

I agree no players should be imune from criticism but I just think he deserve a couple more weeks to regain fitness before his form should be questioned.

He may not have had a huge impact on Friday night but even Bucks acknowledged his gut running and off the ball contributions in this week’s brief. I think you’ll see him bounce back in a big way this week against the crows. And once he gets back to 100% fitness i think Bucks will start playing him on the wing again where he plays his best footy and then we will see him back to his 2011 AA form.

For us to win the flag we need Daisy and Didak at their peak IMO.