Integrity in sport

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Cylon7 said:
If you're interested in knowing more about the many forms of sports corruption, tonight the ABC's Four Corners is looking at match fixing in tennis:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-...nnis-matches-flagged-for-match-fixing/7127240

When will the Australian government realise that sports cannot govern themselves?

Integrity units in sports like tennis and AFL need overseers.
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sport is a business its conflicted, but I don't think the government should be involved in running sporting events.

Ultimately it comes down to the consumer, people stop turning up over integrity, they'll respond in kind to protect their business.
 

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It's patently obvious that the self governing sporting body model has failed. Miserably.

FIFA
IOC
IAAF
AFL
NRL
NFL
etc.

The list goes on. All are rife with allegations of corruption, political interference, bullying, cover-ups, etc.

The key problem is firstly that governing bodies seem to invite corruption because they are not subject to the same checks and balances as government. You only have to go back to the Spotless deal to see how hopelessly conflicted the AFL is on some issues. If a government minister appointed his/her own company to provide the catering at parliament house there would rightfully be an uproar.

The second key problem is that once a body is appointed, it is above reproach from the clubs. There are 18 clubs that the AFL oversees and the AFL has the power to sanction any of those clubs either overtly or covertly e.g. with scheduling. Any club that takes up the fight against the AFL will not likely see a lot of support from the other clubs because there is a competitive advantage to letting them hang themselves.

The third key problem is the fourth estate. This used to be an effective check/balance for sporting bodies until the NFL came up with the idea of media accreditation. Nowadays the AFL has its own 'journalists' (although in court proceedings they have been clear that they are purely a media department), provides accreditation to journalists who want to cover their news, and keeps the most vocal journalists on side with coordinated leaks.

There are no checks and balances for these organisations and they are never held to account. Tanking was an AFL created problem. They created rules which rewarded the best loser and then were surprised when clubs abused those rules. How did they deal with it? They 'investigated' Melbourne and then found two individuals (scapegoats) to be accountable. The very idea that a coach would deliberately lose without board support is laughable (losing is usually not a great way to keep your job in football) and flies in the face of all logic, but yet they were able to manage that message to the public.

Cylon7 don't hold your breath though, this model isn't changing any time soon.

I'm bitterly angry with the AFL at the moment, but as soon as the Essendon saga dies down and the AFL starts going another club I'll probably be back in their corner.. therein lies the problem.
 
If you think the AFL is bad, which I certainly do, take a look at how professional boxing is managed.
 
andrewb said:
It's patently obvious that the self governing sporting body model has failed. Miserably.
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Self-regulation just doesn't work. Full stop. In whatever field.
 
Percel said:
I was a massive fan of Novak Watson and Rafael Heppell before i found out the truth.'

Gutted, cant juggle my yellow fluffy slazengers anymore......
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What's your opinion on integrity in internet forums?
 
andrewb said:
I'm bitterly angry with the AFL at the moment, but as soon as the Essendon saga dies down and the AFL starts going another club I'll probably be back in their corner.. therein lies the problem.
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How angry with Essendon football Club are you?

The AFL has suffered damage in the eyes of most football fans over this - and apparently give not much of a s**t about that.

But Vlad was actually unarguably right in one thing. The AFL did not put a needle in anyone's arm. Or stomach. And that's where it starts.
 
Laphroaig said:
How angry with Essendon football Club are you?

The AFL has suffered damage in the eyes of most football fans over this - and apparently give not much of a s**t about that.

But Vlad was actually unarguably right in one thing. The AFL did not put a needle in anyone's arm. Or stomach. And that's where it starts.
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:thumbsu:
 

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andrewb said:
It's patently obvious that the self governing sporting body model has failed. Miserably.

FIFA
IOC
IAAF
AFL
NRL
NFL
etc.

The list goes on. All are rife with allegations of corruption, political interference, bullying, cover-ups, etc.

The key problem is firstly that governing bodies seem to invite corruption because they are not subject to the same checks and balances as government. You only have to go back to the Spotless deal to see how hopelessly conflicted the AFL is on some issues. If a government minister appointed his/her own company to provide the catering at parliament house there would rightfully be an uproar.

The second key problem is that once a body is appointed, it is above reproach from the clubs. There are 18 clubs that the AFL oversees and the AFL has the power to sanction any of those clubs either overtly or covertly e.g. with scheduling. Any club that takes up the fight against the AFL will not likely see a lot of support from the other clubs because there is a competitive advantage to letting them hang themselves.

The third key problem is the fourth estate. This used to be an effective check/balance for sporting bodies until the NFL came up with the idea of media accreditation. Nowadays the AFL has its own 'journalists' (although in court proceedings they have been clear that they are purely a media department), provides accreditation to journalists who want to cover their news, and keeps the most vocal journalists on side with coordinated leaks.

There are no checks and balances for these organisations and they are never held to account. Tanking was an AFL created problem. They created rules which rewarded the best loser and then were surprised when clubs abused those rules. How did they deal with it? They 'investigated' Melbourne and then found two individuals (scapegoats) to be accountable. The very idea that a coach would deliberately lose without board support is laughable (losing is usually not a great way to keep your job in football) and flies in the face of all logic, but yet they were able to manage that message to the public.

Cylon7 don't hold your breath though, this model isn't changing any time soon.

I'm bitterly angry with the AFL at the moment, but as soon as the Essendon saga dies down and the AFL starts going another club I'll probably be back in their corner.. therein lies the problem.
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Good post.
 
Percel said:
I was a massive fan of Novak Watson and Rafael Heppell before i found out the truth.'

Gutted, cant juggle my yellow fluffy slazengers anymore......
Click to expand...
My slazengers lost their fluff quite some time ago. I got a fair bit of fluff on my ears in compensation.
 
gavaniacono said:
My slazengers lost their fluff quite some time ago. I got a fair bit of fluff on my ears in compensation.
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What would BigFooty be without your 1st hand diary of the ageing process?

It would be a lesser and colder world without doubt.
 
andrewb said:
It's patently obvious that the self governing sporting body model has failed. Miserably.

FIFA
IOC
IAAF
AFL
NRL
NFL
etc.

The list goes on. All are rife with allegations of corruption, political interference, bullying, cover-ups, etc.
Click to expand...
Not sure I would put the AFL and the NRL in the same league as FIFA et. al. with regards to corruption. Political interference? How would giving Governments more oversight in sport reduce 'political interference'?

The key problem is firstly that governing bodies seem to invite corruption because they are not subject to the same checks and balances as government. You only have to go back to the Spotless deal to see how hopelessly conflicted the AFL is on some issues. If a government minister appointed his/her own company to provide the catering at parliament house there would rightfully be an uproar.
Click to expand...
The AFL is still accountable for its actions and if it could be proved that, say, the Spotless deal was done without due process, then the AFL would be accountable. They can't simply give these contracts to their mates without there being a tender process and I'm sure that in any negotiations interested parties need to excuse themselves from the process. These deals are subject to the same laws as any other private company or government department. The AFL don't operate in a bubble, immune from the laws of the land.

The second key problem is that once a body is appointed, it is above reproach from the clubs. There are 18 clubs that the AFL oversees and the AFL has the power to sanction any of those clubs either overtly or covertly e.g. with scheduling. Any club that takes up the fight against the AFL will not likely see a lot of support from the other clubs because there is a competitive advantage to letting them hang themselves.
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The imbalance with the scheduling is a problem, but clubs still take it up to the AFL over various issues like Friday night games and Sunday arvo games. Collingwood certainly complain loudly about perceived inequalities even if it means going after Sydney and Brisbane (The AFLs supposed 'pet' teams). The smaller clubs do tend to get the rough end of the pineapple in terms of scheduling, but is this 'punishment' or simply 'economics'? This is one area which could be made more transparent and equitable, though.

The third key problem is the fourth estate. This used to be an effective check/balance for sporting bodies until the NFL came up with the idea of media accreditation. Nowadays the AFL has its own 'journalists' (although in court proceedings they have been clear that they are purely a media department), provides accreditation to journalists who want to cover their news, and keeps the most vocal journalists on side with coordinated leaks.
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I don't like the accreditation system. It is open to abuse. Having said that, it is not like the AFL has been immune from criticism in the media. There has been plenty of criticism over the recreational drugs policy, the handling of the Essendon scandal, the expansion into NSW and Qld. Player indiscretions are reported widely and often sensationally. I'm sure the AFL would prefer if these things were kept hush-hush, but they don't have as much control as people might think. There are limited news organisations in this country and banning one of these from the sport would be fairly obvious and hasn't been done so far.

There are no checks and balances for these organisations and they are never held to account. Tanking was an AFL created problem. They created rules which rewarded the best loser and then were surprised when clubs abused those rules. How did they deal with it? They 'investigated' Melbourne and then found two individuals (scapegoats) to be accountable. The very idea that a coach would deliberately lose without board support is laughable (losing is usually not a great way to keep your job in football) and flies in the face of all logic, but yet they were able to manage that message to the public.
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It was one of those things that was difficult to prove but everyone knew it had happened and the rumours kept coming up. Once the player opened his mouth about it (McLean?) they were obliged to investigate again. They needed some people to take the blame and the coach is a pretty obvious choice and Connolly took a hit as well. The farcical things was that they were found guilty of not tanking, or something.

RE; The bolded part - people believe that a club can run a 'supplements' program involving the majority of the players and the coach can have absolutely no idea what is going and had no input into it. People believe some crazy stuff.

I'm bitterly angry with the AFL at the moment, but as soon as the Essendon saga dies down and the AFL starts going another club I'll probably be back in their corner.. therein lies the problem.
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Not sure that is where your anger should be directed.

The AFL isn't perfect, but the idea that putting this organisation under control of the government will clean up the game is laughable.

The AFL are subject to the laws governing large businesses like this, despite what others in this thread say. They have control over the internal workings of the organisation and, like any organisation either private or government, they will protect the image of this organisation.

Corruption like fixing games will not go away if they are suddenly put under government control. If the government were to control a sport like the AFL, they would simply appoint a body very much like the current AFL to oversee it and it would run as it is now. The government would already have some oversight. The funds they provide now give them leverage which they used when taking up the WADA code.

Some differences under government control might be the abolition of the Salary Cap and the Draft under Workplace Laws. Teams that are struggling financially might simply be shut down. How will taxpayers who don't like sport, or this sport in particular, react to the use of taxpayer funds to support struggling teams? It would be a nightmare under government control.

Corruption, match fixing and use of PEDs were brought up in the Blackest Day in Sport announcement and this was laughed off as some kind political grandstanding and witch-hunt by a certain government. How much of a joke is this seen as now?
 
Laphroaig said:
How angry with Essendon football Club are you?

The AFL has suffered damage in the eyes of most football fans over this - and apparently give not much of a s**t about that.

But Vlad was actually unarguably right in one thing. The AFL did not put a needle in anyone's arm. Or stomach. And that's where it starts.
Click to expand...
My thoughts on that are well documented, I'm very angry.
 
The AFL is no different to FIFA, ATP, IOC et al. Smaller, yes, but essentially the same. All of the are very large businesses who make buckets of money off the back of TV/ Pay TV rights.

As such sports rules do not apply, the rules here are business rules only. How do we increase revenue - lower costs - beat the other businesses to the best, most profitable TV deal? This is what matters. The game is just a vehicle, it is not "sport" as we know it.

The only way any of this changes is if the punters stop watching (can't see that happening anytime soon), or (at least in a doping sense), if the controlling body has skin to loose.

I guess as one of the punters who watches sport, the best I can do is to be aware that it is simply entertainment.

"Sport" is what I do on the weekends as I flog myself up and down Beach rd or head out to the hills for a ride.
 
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