Interesting but useless info

[fabulousphil]

Heard something interesting but quite useless (in the scheme of things) about the murray river.

I would have thought that the border between NSW and VIC would be the middle of the murray river ............ but thats wrong ........ the NSW border stops on the the VIC side of the river.

So when the river floods......... which admittedly doesn't happen all that often the VIC border can be reduced by quite a few K's, and possibly towns that were firmly on the VIC side would technically be classed as NSW towns.

Anyone else have any other bits of useless trivia.

I suppose if the flood was extended for any length of time then the Swans could claim a couple more decent footballers.

 

[dr nick]

yeah that is strange, but i think it would be a fixed line based on a certain tide. if it were to flood i very much doubt the boundaries change.

is the "YOU ARE ENTERING NEW SOUTH WALES, NO FRUIT PAST THIS POINT" sign on the victorian side of the river then?

 

[dr nick]

actually friends of ours recently had surveyors to measure up a proposed porch. they have a creek down the back and on the plans the boundary is the edge of the creek which is 16.13m from the house or something. that measurement doesnt change after rain.

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by nicko18
actually friends of ours recently had surveyors to measure up a proposed porch. they have a creek down the back and on the plans the boundary is the edge of the creek which is 16.13m from the house or something. that measurement doesnt change after rain.

Yeah agreed, it does sound odd, but i was told this by a teacher at the Albury/Wodonga campus of CSU (Charles Sturt Uni), i really cant see the reason for this, other than VIC was once part of NSW and they were being pedantic when dividing the state up...... well thats a pretty pathetic reason ........but best i can do.

 

[dr nick]

in essence it is a rather important issue. it means the NSW Govt has full control on what goes on in that waterway.

infact, it'd be rather complex if the river was split down the middle. come to think of it i'd imagine all rivers that are used as boundaries would have the boundary on one of the banks.

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by nicko18
in essence it is a rather important issue. it means the NSW Govt has full control on what goes on in that waterway.

infact, it'd be rather complex if the river was split down the middle. come to think of it i'd imagine all rivers that are used as boundaries would have the boundary on one of the banks.

Fair point, although i have only ever fished from the VIC side i wouldn't be buying my fishing licence from NSW to do it.

 

[Mobbs]

It's correct that the border is the Vic-side bank of the Murray.

Here's another interesting thing. The border between NSW and Vic was originally going to be along the Murrumbidgee, rather than along the Murray.

Hence the Riverina thinking of themselves as sort of Victorians, and the placement of Canberra at the time was basically on the border between the two states.

Another thingy : ACT does have some shoreline. Can't remember where, but somewhere in NSW there is a defence base or something, which is actually considered a federal property and a part of the ACT!

Anothet thingy : About 3kms of the Glenelg River in south-western Vic is actually in South Australia. It flows across the border, and then back again, withing eyeshot!

But wait, there's more : The Murray River is the border between NSW and Vic, right? Except of course when its in SA proper? Well, there's a few k where its the border between Vic and SA! Check out a map, the border hits the Murray, follows it for a few clicks to the right, and then takes off again!

And another one - Which is the longest river in Aust? Its actually the Darling, not the Murray. In 'longest-river' listings, the 'Murray-Darling' is shown, from the sources of the Darling down to the Murray, and then continuing down to Lake Alexandrina!

Here's a footy one for yers : Newspaper reports might state "Collingwood plays Essendon", but yonks ago, the correct terminology was to put a "The" in front of your team name. Back then, the correct text would be "The Collingwood plays the Essendon", or, to keep it archaic : "The Collingwood tries conclusions with the Essendon."

Back to Maps and crap - Biggest ring road? Midland Hwy. Don't believe me? Check the map of Vic. Starts at Geelong, up to Ballarat, to Bendigo and Rochester, out to Shep, Benalla, then down to Mansfield. Here's the catch : What's that highway down the bottom connecting Morwell to Welshpool? A-ha!

Sorry you asked?

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
It's correct that the border is the Vic-side bank of the Murray.

Here's another interesting thing. The border between NSW and Vic was originally going to be along the Murrumbidgee, rather than along the Murray.

Hence the Riverina thinking of themselves as sort of Victorians, and the placement of Canberra at the time was basically on the border between the two states.

Another thingy : ACT does have some shoreline. Can't remember where, but somewhere in NSW there is a defence base or something, which is actually considered a federal property and a part of the ACT!

That would be jervis bay .......... near Nowra.

Mobs thats interesting about the originally planned NSW/VIC border along the murrambidgee, i was not aware of that and i lived and worked around the area for quite a few years.

 

[Mobbs]

Well its true, I swear!

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
Well its true, I swear!

I believe you, i believe you.

 

[Mobbs]

From http://www.albury-wodonga.com/docs/history.htm :

In 1851 separation was achieved between northern and southern New South Wales. The border was proposed as the Murrumbidgee River, well north of Albury. Due to a clerical error, the boundary was fixed at the Murray River, the new state was named Victoria, and Albury became a frontier border town

------------

Lots of interesting facts in the full article! The Murray was originally called the Hume River! ALbury originally called Bumgambrewartha! :

The history of the Albury-Wodonga region, pre and post European settlement, has been intrinsically linked to the mighty Murray river running through it's heart.

Little remaining evidence has been found of ancient use or habitation of the land, although the richness of the riverplains in terms of wildlife and the hunter/gatherer nature of the early aboriginal tribes would lend itself to suggest that the region was indeed used as a plentiful hunting ground. The river abounded with fish, the plentiful warm lagoons dotting the flood plain supported large colonies of ducks, geese, pelicans and swans, with kangaroos and emus feeding off the rich grasslands.

Some remaining scar trees have been attributed to traditional aboriginal uses and artefact construction - for example bark bowls, ritual uses including burial rites, and construction of canoes. A few rock shelters in the surrounding hill areas and some scattered, faded rock art sites also support a history of tribal habitation. The nature of the flood plain and regular inundation could have tended to deter long term settlement close to the river, or may have been responsible for regularly removing any trace.

Of the tribes inhabiting the general area, the Wiradjuri people were believed to have moved into the Albury-Wodonga region shortly before the early explorers arrived.

The aboriginal name for the river (recorded in 1836) was Millewa.

White explorers Hume and Hovell discovered the river on the 16th of November, 1824, naming it the Hume River, and inscribing a tree near the riverbank the next day before moving on in their quest to find Western Port to the south.

In 1829, the explorer Captain Charles Sturt discovered the Hume River downstream at it's junction with the Murrumbidgee River. Not realising it was indeed the Hume, he named it the Murray River. Both names persisted for some time, Hume falling into disuse eventually in favour of Murray.

The explorers route was shortly followed by white squatters with large numbers of stock, mainly sheep and cattle. Many families taking up parcels of grazing land on the rich river flatlands. Among the first were William Wyse and Charles Ebden.

The drovers track that developed led naturally to the same point Hume and Hovell first sighted the river. Although an easier crossing point could be found 10 miles upstream (where the Hume Dam now stands) the original site by Hume and Hovell's inscribed tree became the popular crossing place for people and stock on their way to new settlements in the south.

Crossing the river during the drier summer months could normally be achieved on foot. When the river was high after heavy rains or snow melting in the mountains crossing became difficult until a log punt was built in 1844. Stock, however, had to swim.

The first permanent white dwellings were built in the area in the mid 1830's. Mainly small huts, and provisions stores.

In 1838 the New South Wales government commissioned a survey for a township at the crossing place. Assistant Surveyor Thomas Townsend's completed survey for the new settlement showed it bounded by Woodonga Place to the west, Hume Street to the north, Kiewa Street to the east and Nurigong Street to the south. Within this, Townsend Street ran between and parallel to Woodonga (later to become Wodonga) Place and Kiewa Street, and Ebden and Hovell Streets running east-west.

The name originally proposed by Townsend for the township was Bungambrewatha - the Aboriginal name for the area. That name was subsequently struck out and Albury substituted - the reason for the change and origin of the name remaining largely a mystery to this day. When the plan was finally approved and published in the Government Gazette on April 13th, 1839, it was for a place to be called Albury, County unnamed on the east bank of the Murray at a place called by the natives Bungambrewatha.

The local Aborigines, at first quite numerous, came into conflict with the early squatters over hunting the squatters stock. Skirmishes with the squatters and introduced white man's diseases, including alcohol and tobacco, took a serious toll on the tribes people. The survivors moved on to quieter, more peaceful hunting grounds.

Albury's first recorded flood since white settlement occurred in 1844.

By 1847, Albury boasted a handful of huts, two public houses (inns), a blacksmiths shop, police barracks and a post office.

In 1851 separation was achieved between northern and southern New South Wales. The border was proposed as the Murrumbidgee River, well north of Albury. Due to a clerical error, the boundary was fixed at the Murray River, the new state was named Victoria, and Albury became a frontier border town. The settlement on the Victorian side of the river was originally named Wodonga. It was changed to Belvoir although both names were used for 20 years. This time the original name stuck, and Belvoir was dropped in 1874.

By separation, German settlers escaping the rising nationalism in their homeland started arriving. They found the region suitable for planting of vineyards and started producing wine.

Increased commerce between Sydney and the new townships of Melbourne and Adelaide to the south, necessitated the development of faster means of transport. First came the flourishing river trade opened up by the steamers. Regional produce - primarily wool, wheat and wine - were shipped down the river in large quantities to Adelaide. Low river levels for 5 months of the year made the river impassable and river transport unreliable.

The first bridge over the Murray was built in 1860.

The need for the growing population to be independent of supplies from the larger settlements led to the establishment of various industries including a flour mill, brewery and butter factory.

The arrival of the first railroad from Melbourne in 1873 largely spelt the end of the paddlesteamer era. The rail line from Sydney reached Albury in 1881. The first railway bridge over the Murray was opened in 1883. Due to differences in the gauge of the railway lines between the two states, Albury and Wodonga became changing stations for passengers and freight. Standard gauge on the Sydney-Albury-Melbourne line was not available until 1962

The towns of Albury and Wodonga continued to grow in spite of, sometimes because of, the bush-fires, droughts, floods and gold-rushes of the era.

The concept of daming Australian rivers for irrigation and flood mitigation has been first investigated back in the days of the steamers. By the early 1900's progress was well underway. The Hume Dam was proposed and started in 1919. It took 17 years to build, opening in 1936. The Hume Weir holds more water than Sydney Harbour, and has become a popular recreational and water sports attraction. The Dam also supports a small hydro electric power plant feeding back into the state grid.

The military presence that was established in Wodonga with a camp at Bonegilla in 1940 has since grown to include the Australian Army Training Centre at Latchford Barracks (Bonegilla), units at Bandianna, and full Army support services.

Bonegilla also saw the establishment of a Migrant Camp in 1947 as part of the Governments Post War Migration Scheme. The Bonegilla Migrant Reception Center temporarily housed over 320,000 people from 31 different ethnic backgrounds during it's 24 years of operation.

The river and associated dams still play major roles in the border region.

Repair work on the Hume Weir wall in 1996 found problems with the wall necessitating major structural works on the earth wall forming part of the retaining structure. An unseasonably dry summer and autumn in 1997 has allowed the level of the weir to be reduced dramatically, easing threats of potential wall breach and allowing remedial works to proceed without hindrance.

Border anomalies still plague the border cities with different state regulations in force within stones-throw of each other. Currently the two separate local administrations of Albury and Wodonga are only divided geographically by the River, but politically by two separate governments 900kms apart! Rationalisation and amalgamation proposals have been put forward as diverse as Albury becoming part of Victoria, to amalgamating many administrative functions with other regional New South Wales cities hundreds of kilometers away.

The border cities of Albury-Wodonga have continued to prosper, attracting new industries and offering a relaxed lifestyle unmatched by the hectic metropolitan capital cities. The City of Albury now has an estimated* population of over 42,000, with Wodonga at 30,730, giving urban Albury-Wodonga a population in excess of 72,000. All within easy reach of the snowfields, highcountry, history, waterways and wineries, and less than 3 hours by excellent highway from Melbourne.

* Population estimates based on the Australian Bureau of Statistics preliminary estimates released for 1996. Source: Development Albury Wodonga 2000 Economic Indicators, April 1997.

Further reading: Border City, History of Albury. William A. Bayley. ISBN O 959927603

 

[Mobbs]

More evidence (Lestat would be proud of me!) :

http://www.auslig.gov.au/facts/dimensions/borders.htm
Victoria - New South Wales Border
When Victoria was made a colony separate from New South Wales in 1851, there was much conjecture about where the border should lie. With natural boundaries being in favour at the time, one intention was to make the Murrumbidgee River the state boundary. After much argument, it was eventually decided to define the border as a bearing from Cape Howe, the eastern-most point of Victoria, to 'the nearest source of the River Murray', and from there along the river's course to the border of South Australia.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...f+murrumbidgee+original+border&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Entering the Clarence Valley, Lang claimed, involved a "remarkable change of climate"; it was the limit of the distinctive Moreton Bay Pine (Araucaria cunninghami). There was some politics in this 'natural' border, of course; Lang had already argued the Murrumbidgee River, not the Murray, should be Victoria's boundary based on "the beautiful Swamp Oak".

 

[fabulousphil]

I dont believe it, a clerical error.......... then again i believe it.

Ta Mobs......... good read.

 

[Mobbs]

Check out the Midland Highway quirk, though ... its the best one

 

[Fred]

Originally posted by nicko18
yeah that is strange, but i think it would be a fixed line based on a certain tide.

It would be a most uncertain tide. I assume you live on the coast?

 

[Mobbs]

Its based on the bank, right, Fred, rather than the waterline?

Or is it the frontage border?

 

[Fred]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
Its based on the bank, right, Fred, rather than the waterline?

Or is it the frontage border?

As far as I know, the border is the top of the bank on the vic side.
On that basis, NSW would slowly be growing as the bank erodes.

 

[Mobbs]

Yeah that's what I thought.

 

[footychick]

hehehe i know some more usless facts....they have absolutely nothing to do with the Murray River though.....

The average chocolate bar has 8 insect legs in it (mmmm tasty )

The average human eats 8 spiders in there lifetime at night

Donald Duck comics were banned in Finland because he doesn’t wear pants. (i dunno if thats actually true but it's wot ive been told!)

If you keep a goldfish in a dark room, it will eventually turn white.

American Airlines saved $40,000 in 1987 by eliminating one olive from each salad served in first-class.

 

[evade28]

Mobbenfuhrer, do you know why everything is named after hume and not hovill (ie hume river and hume hwy)? ive never heard of any hovill things!

 

[Harry]

Hovells Creek is between Corio and Lara, just outside Geelong.

More border trivia:
Telephone numbers in Finley, Deniliquin, Berrigan and Jerilderie in NSW have the Victorian area code 03.

Barooga has the postcode 3644 even though it's in NSW.

 

[Mobbs]

Love your work, footychick!

Originally posted by evade28
Mobbenfuhrer, do you know why everything is named after hume and not hovill (ie hume river and hume hwy)? ive never heard of any hovill things!

Umm, nope, don't know any Hovell things ... though he may have been responsible for the invention of the Hovellcar ... will need to check with FIGJAM on that one ... but he mightn't be in much of a mood to converse, tonight!

Interesting indeed, Harry!

 

[Fred]

We have Hume, Hovell, Eyre, Leichardt, Darling and Sturt Sts.

 

[Nic]

Originally posted by Harry
Hovells Creek is between Corio and Lara, just outside Geelong.

Heh heh heh, woo bloody hoo. Lucky Hovell.

 

[evade28]

Originally posted by Nic
Heh heh heh, woo bloody hoo. Lucky Hovell.

hehe i was thinking EXACTLY that myself!

hume gets a big river (well it was named after him at the time even if it isnt now), and a massive highway

and hovill gets some ****ty creek between lara and geelong, lol i wonder which one of them got ripped off!!!!