Interesting Read From Caro

[_RT_]

Reportedly, Cameron's view on Richmond's list was far from bullish, a view that has never wavered although he would probably admit to being a little seduced by the Tigers' run home last year. Now the media suggests the entire club was seduced along with the fans and yet few at the club saw the team any better than a bottom-eight prospect.

In the new football boss' only draft and trade period, the Tigers did take 20-year-old Tom Hislop from Essendon with pick No. 58 and traded pick No. 42 for 22-year-old Adam Thomson from Port Adelaide. Cousins came via the pre-season draft and both its early draft choices went on big, potential key-position players.

All of the above are yet to be proven and the Cousins debate will wage on, but I maintain the view that by taking him the Tigers took a bold and risky punt that will prove the strength of the club under March and Co.
No one is suggesting that all is well at Tigerland. Clearly the football malaise is infectious and as good as young Trent Cotchin might be, no cure is in sight.

The above was taken from Caroline Wilsons article in the Age this morning: http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rf...of-march-and-co/2009/04/21/1240079672263.html

I think it just shows how much a difference marketing and hype can make to the way us the fans view the clubs prospects for the year ahead. We all read about March and Sheedy's belief that we can make the finals, perhaps even win a flag, we read about how the players the players and the coaches talking up the clubs chances that we can be a finals side and quite a few of us used the run of 8 wins from last year to convince ourselves that the list is going places.

Yet according to Caro, our own list manager said was less than bullish about our prospects and it appears that some other people within the club itself saw us as no better than a bottom 8 prospect. Makes you wonder just who else at the club shared the same views as Cameron?

 

[David3030]

It is a very interesting article.

I can understand Craig Cameron havinf reservations about our list, I have also. We have 6 30+ players, 8 24 - 28yo plyers and 26 23 or younger. Our players should be a more even spread between 23 and under and 24 - 30.

Secondly, if you look at those in the 24 and above category, Newman and Coughlan are probably the only 2 that will remain on the list in 2 - 3 years time meaning 12 of those 14 players are gone. Maybe even Cogs too if his injury nightmares return.

 

[1980]

The above was taken from Caroline Wilsons article in the Age this morning: http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rf...of-march-and-co/2009/04/21/1240079672263.html

I think it just shows how much a difference marketing and hype can make to the way us the fans view the clubs prospects for the year ahead. We all read about March and Sheedy's belief that we can make the finals, perhaps even win a flag, we read about how the players the players and the coaches talking up the clubs chances that we can be a finals side and quite a few of us used the run of 8 wins from last year to convince ourselves that the list is going places.

Yet according to Caro, our own list manager said was less than bullish about our prospects and it appears that some other people within the club itself saw us as no better than a bottom 8 prospect. Makes you wonder just who else at the club shared the same views as Cameron?

No it doesnt. It shows that Craig Cameron is a dirty cover my ars ba$toord. Leaking to Caro to absolve himself of blame.

He was 10th choice to get the job and it shows why. Another bloke at the RFC protecting himself at the club's expense.

Funny that none of this came out last year when he was appointed. The time to share these views with the public is when you get the job, not when things go south.

Get rid of the dweeb. He looks, talks and acts like a spineless leaking geek.

 

[ata40]

It is a very interesting article.

I can understand Craig Cameron havinf reservations about our list, I have also. We have 6 30+ players, 8 24 - 28yo plyers and 26 23 or younger. Our players should be a more even spread between 23 and under and 24 - 30.

Secondly, if you look at those in the 24 and above category, Newman and Coughlan are probably the only 2 that will remain on the list in 2 - 3 years time meaning 12 of those 14 players are gone. Maybe even Cogs too if his injury nightmares return.

Spot on!

We will need another 2 to 3 years to get our list into alignment and by then we still will be missing the 6 or so required veterans.

This is what Wallace started with - it will almost take take a generation of players (10years) to really scynchronise the list again.

When Wallace was talking about our golden period of 2011-2015 this is what he was referring to - this is what Caro conveniently missed, she knows this - but you sell far more papers if you write a story that Richmond expects to finish 9th again!

 

[_RT_]

No it doesnt. It shows that Craig Cameron is a dirty cover my ars ba$toord. Leaking to Caro to absolve himself of blame.

He was 10th choice to get the job and it shows why. Another bloke at the RFC protecting himself at the club's expense.

Funny that none of this came out last year when he was appointed. The time to share these views with the public is when you get the job, not when things go south.

Get rid of the dweeb. He looks, talks and acts like a spineless leaking geek.

If Cameron had of come out and said that he would have been torn apart by the fans and the media for being so inept. Tell me when have you ever heard a club come out and say that its list if shit and going nowhere. They will always talk up their chances as it is what brings in the members.

 

[RECORDS!]

Would I be cynical to suggest that Caro could have written this glowing endorsement of Cameron in exchange for regular leakings from inside the club. She seems to get a hell of a lot of info on the club that should never get out. (Allegedly)

 

[_RT_]

Would I be cynical to suggest that Caro could have written this glowing endorsement of Cameron in exchange for regular leakings from inside the club. She seems to get a hell of a lot of info on the club that should never get out. (Allegedly)

Not sure if you have read the whole article yet, but she also gives a rather glowing endorsement of March at the start of the article.

 

[Barnzy]

Yet according to Caro, our own list manager said was less than bullish about our prospects and it appears that some other people within the club itself saw us as no better than a bottom 8 prospect. Makes you wonder just who else at the club shared the same views as Cameron?

Clearly Wallace doesn't as he said he would get us into the finals and this year it's finals or he has no job. This article is just to save Cameron's own ass, coming up with B.S at the last minute on how our list isn't top 8 material because of how we have performed for the first four weeks. People should see through this propaganda garbage, everyone knows the club will be overhauled at the end of the season and they will do whatever they can to save themselves.

 

[Bojangles17]

arguably, one of the better articles I have read from caro..well balanced

 

[NQTIGER]

Watching the news this morning what a bunch of hypocritical bastards, all brad johnson could say was richmond have gone through 5 coaches since 1995, well lets look at the doggies alan joyce, terry wallace, peter rohde, and currently rodney eade, have i missed anyone?

We have had two coaches in ten ******* years and they all say we are a fickle lot, please give me a break.

The sesaon is not over yet, yes we have problems but the reigning premier is 1 and 3 and they have had a softer draw. Fremantle is worse than us and no one talks about dingbat.

carlton , david parkin wayne brittain, pagan, and now alfred e nueman

that is only one less coach than us,.

st kilda.......need i go on?

anyway that my rant

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Well in part I totally agree and don't care if we finish 16th or 2nd as long as we are heading in the right direction to win a flag, and in short coming into this season we had gapping holes some of which appear to be closing and others appear to have opened which is a concern.
At the end of last season I believe we lacked :

Problem : 1st grade, class, midfielders and midfielders with grunt
Solution : The recruitement of Cuz, developement of Cotch would add the class, the recruitement of Thompson and the return of Coggs would add the grunt unfortunately all 4 have had injuries.

Problem : Genuine giant2nd Ruckman
Solution : Graham has been very good and they did try Browne

Problem : The developement of mid-sized backman who could replace McMahon and Bowden who choose to play somewhat unaccountable and stop-start going wide football.
Solution : Bling, Polo, Rance have all been tried there this year and shown their worth.

Problem : Small backman options.
Solution : Raines started well prior to injury, injuries in mid-field has not permitted White to be tried down back, whilst Edwards did show some early season form down back.

Problem : Genuine KP forward set-up.
Solution : Pattison who looms as the great white hope at CHF has been injured whilst Schulz is being moved around due to lack of opportunities.

Problem : Small Forward options to allow Brown up field
Solution : Conners injury and the need for White and the likes to play bit parts within the midfield have robbed possible opportunities. The elevation and experiment of Nahas has been understandable.

Summary : I think our recruiting over the off season was good with the exception of Hislop which I think will prove to be a waste of time.
The elevation of Browne was warranted, I think the elevation of Nahas was a knee jerker, as I think with the players set to return in the next few weeks, will allow more options as a small forward, and the elevation of the Goo as a possible KP forward would have been the better option.
This season has been made look worst due to injury and the lack of form from 4 that we all considered ultimate starters in our best 22 and possible top 10.
Lids, Brown, Newman and Simmonds, whilst also adding the indifferent form of Foley, Tuck and our 3 bolters from last year Moore, Morton and Reiwoldt.

Anyone who could have picked their poor early season form based on their last halves last season is a genious !!!

We currently have Cotch, Cuz, Thommo, Coggs, Patto, Schulz, Thursty and Raines out of the side, who would have all been in calculations off season, whilst Lids, Simmonds,Newman, Brown, Moore, Morton, Reiwoldt,Newman, Foley and Tuck, with form all well below where it ended last season.

 

[RECORDS!]

Well in part I totally agree and don't care if we finish 16th or 2nd as long as we are heading in the right direction to win a flag, and in short coming into this season we had gapping holes some of which appear to be closing and others appear to have opened which is a concern.
At the end of last season I believe we lacked :

Problem : 1st grade, class, midfielders and midfielders with grunt
Solution : The recruitement of Cuz, developement of Cotch would add the class, the recruitement of Thompson and the return of Coggs would add the grunt unfortunately all 4 have had injuries.

Problem : Genuine giant2nd Ruckman
Solution : Graham has been very good and they did try Browne

Problem : The developement of mid-sized backman who could replace McMahon and Bowden who choose to play somewhat unaccountable and stop-start going wide football.
Solution : Bling, Polo, Rance have all been tried there this year and shown their worth.

Problem : Small backman options.
Solution : Raines started well prior to injury, injuries in mid-field has not permitted White to be tried down back, whilst Edwards did show some early season form down back.

Problem : Genuine KP forward set-up.
Solution : Pattison who looms as the great white hope at CHF has been injured whilst Schulz is being moved around due to lack of opportunities.

Problem : Small Forward options to allow Brown up field
Solution : Conners injury and the nedd for White and the likes to play bit parts within the foward line have robbed possible opportunities. The elevation and experiment of Nahas has been warranted.

Summary : I think our recruiting over the off season was good with the exception of Hislop which I think will prove to be a waste of time.
The elevation of Browne was warranted, I think the elevation of Nahas was a knee jerker, as I think with the players set to return in the next few weeks, will allow more options as a small forward, and the elevation of the Goo as a possible KP forward would have been the better option.
This season has been made look worst due to injury and the lack of form from 4 that we all considered ultimate starters in our best 22 and possible top 10.
Lids, Brown, Newman and Simmonds, whilst also adding the indifferent form of Foley, Tuck and our 3 bolters from last year Moore, Morton and Reiwoldt.

Anyone who could have picked their poor early season form based on their last halves last season is a genious !!!

We currently have Cotch, Cuz, Thommo, Coggs, Patto, Schulz, Thursty and Raines out of the side, who would have all been in calculations off season, whilst Lids, Simmonds,Newman, Brown, Moore, Morton, Reiwoldt,Newman, Foley and Tuck, with form all well below where it ended last season.

Very good post, especially the sentence bolded. It really puts everything into perspective.

 

[thecotch]

Regardless of what anyone says right now, i think it is fair to day 8-12 players currently on our list will not be there next year. At least 4 of them will be the veterans.

Deep cuts need to be made again and a new incoming coach will swing the axe hard.

My guess would be

bowden
brown
simmonds
mcmahon
JON
hughes
tambling (trade)
schulz
cousins (if he plays less than 10 games this year)
polo

 

[Barnzy]

Regardless of what anyone says right now, i think it is fair to day 8-12 players currently on our list will not be there next year. At least 4 of them will be the veterans.

Deep cuts need to be made again and a new incoming coach will swing the axe hard.

My guess would be

bowden
brown
simmonds
mcmahon
JON
hughes
tambling (trade)
schulz
cousins (if he plays less than 10 games this year)
polo

You would keep Johnson?

 

[1980]

If Cameron had of come out and said that he would have been torn apart by the fans and the media for being so inept. Tell me when have you ever heard a club come out and say that its list if shit and going nowhere. They will always talk up their chances as it is what brings in the members.

Wallace did it, Miller did it, dare I say it, Walls did it.

Those who didnt do it include Frawley and Geischen because like Cameron, they were lucky to get the job

 

[_RT_]

Clearly Wallace doesn't as he said he would get us into the finals and this year it's finals or he has no job. This article is just to save Cameron's own ass, coming up with B.S at the last minute on how our list isn't top 8 material because of how we have performed for the first four weeks. People should see through this propaganda garbage, everyone knows the club will be overhauled at the end of the season and they will do whatever they can to save themselves.

Which one of these statements is the bigger propaganda?

1. Prior to the season the coach, players, president and membership ambassador all come out and say that we can play finals this year. As a result we have broken our record for members.

2. List manager, it is alleged, believed that the list was not top 8 quality.

Cameron is alleged to have said what some posters, including yourself I believe, thought was the case and you call it that he is trying to save his own arse.

Now I'm going to throw a bit of a conspiracy theory out there for posters to consider.

1. The board knows that the supporters of this club are desperate for success, so they throw out lines like 'Its finals or bust'. The average fan see this and thinks the clubs going all out to make the finals this year, I might jump on board and become a member so that I can be there when we make it.

2. Then when momentum slows, another opportunity to boost memberships, in Cousins, presents itself and suddenly the club changes its original stance and decides that it will recruit Cousins because it can see it will draw in even more fans to become members.

3. They then continue the hard sell that finals are a definite possibility this year. Players, coaches, officials and others all come out and keep pounding the message that finals are on the cards.

4. Yet the board has been given a presentation by the list manager in Cameron that suggests that the list is still a fair ways off and that another bottom 8 finish is more likely. The club can't come out now and say it because they know the shit will hit the fan with the supporters and with the media. So they revise their expectations internally but keep presenting a postive image to the public.

5. Season starts and it goes horrible, belted by Carlton, honourable against the Cats, then beaten by the Dogs and Dees. Every man and their dog expects Wallace to get the sack before the week is out yet the club on the back of a presentation from Cameron, which was probably restating where he saw the list, decides that they will stick with Terry.

Now for a stab at what may happen in the future:

1. The side comes out and wins say 4-5 of the next 7. Suddenly they get to mid season with a 4-7/5-6 record which is about what they expected. The heat on Terry dies down a bit. Remainder of the season they win another 4-6 games ending the season with a record somewhere between 8-14 and 11-11 and a position between 9th-12th. Frustrating I know but Wallce did state a couple of years ago that he didn't believe we would be serious challengers until 2011 at the earliest.

2. The club completes its review and decides that they will give Wallace another 2 years.

 

[IDGAF]

Which one of these statements is the bigger propaganda?

1. Prior to the season the coach, players, president and membership ambassador all come out and say that we can play finals this year. As a result we have broken our record for members.

2. List manager, it is alleged, believed that the list was not top 8 quality.

Cameron is alleged to have said what some posters, including yourself I believe, thought was the case and you call it that he is trying to save his own arse.

Now I'm going to throw a bit of a conspiracy theory out there for posters to consider.

1. The board knows that the supporters of this club are desperate for success, so they throw out lines like 'Its finals or bust'. The average fan see this and thinks the clubs going all out to make the finals this year, I might jump on board and become a member so that I can be there when we make it.

2. Then when momentum slows, another opportunity to boost memberships, in Cousins, presents itself and suddenly the club changes its original stance and decides that it will recruit Cousins because it can see it will draw in even more fans to become members.

3. They then continue the hard sell that finals are a definite possibility this year. Players, coaches, officials and others all come out and keep pounding the message that finals are on the cards.

4. Yet the board has been given a presentation by the list manager in Cameron that suggests that the list is still a fair ways off and that another bottom 8 finish is more likely. The club can't come out now and say it because they know the shit will hit the fan with the supporters and with the media. So they revise their expectations internally but keep presenting a postive image to the public.

5. Season starts and it goes horrible, belted by Carlton, honourable against the Cats, then beaten by the Dogs and Dees. Every man and their dog expects Wallace to get the sack before the week is out yet the club on the back of a presentation from Cameron, which was probably restating where he saw the list, decides that they will stick with Terry.

Now for a stab at what may happen in the future:

1. The side comes out and wins say 4-5 of the next 7. Suddenly they get to mid season with a 4-7/5-6 record which is about what they expected. The heat on Terry dies down a bit. Remainder of the season they win another 4-6 games ending the season with a record somewhere between 8-14 and 11-11 and a position between 9th-12th. Frustrating I know but Wallce did state a couple of years ago that he didn't believe we would be serious challengers until 2011 at the earliest.

2. The club completes its review and decides that they will give Wallace another 2 years.

interesting read RT

... but LMAO @ the same time

Whats happened to your Sig ??? ....

 

[1980]

Which one of these statements is the bigger propaganda?

1. Prior to the season the coach, players, president and membership ambassador all come out and say that we can play finals this year. As a result we have broken our record for members.

2. List manager, it is alleged, believed that the list was not top 8 quality.

Cameron is alleged to have said what some posters, including yourself I believe, thought was the case and you call it that he is trying to save his own arse.

Now I'm going to throw a bit of a conspiracy theory out there for posters to consider.

1. The board knows that the supporters of this club are desperate for success, so they throw out lines like 'Its finals or bust'. The average fan see this and thinks the clubs going all out to make the finals this year, I might jump on board and become a member so that I can be there when we make it.

2. Then when momentum slows, another opportunity to boost memberships, in Cousins, presents itself and suddenly the club changes its original stance and decides that it will recruit Cousins because it can see it will draw in even more fans to become members.

3. They then continue the hard sell that finals are a definite possibility this year. Players, coaches, officials and others all come out and keep pounding the message that finals are on the cards.

4. Yet the board has been given a presentation by the list manager in Cameron that suggests that the list is still a fair ways off and that another bottom 8 finish is more likely. The club can't come out now and say it because they know the shit will hit the fan with the supporters and with the media. So they revise their expectations internally but keep presenting a postive image to the public.

5. Season starts and it goes horrible, belted by Carlton, honourable against the Cats, then beaten by the Dogs and Dees. Every man and their dog expects Wallace to get the sack before the week is out yet the club on the back of a presentation from Cameron, which was probably restating where he saw the list, decides that they will stick with Terry.

Now for a stab at what may happen in the future:

1. The side comes out and wins say 4-5 of the next 7. Suddenly they get to mid season with a 4-7/5-6 record which is about what they expected. The heat on Terry dies down a bit. Remainder of the season they win another 4-6 games ending the season with a record somewhere between 8-14 and 11-11 and a position between 9th-12th. Frustrating I know but Wallce did state a couple of years ago that he didn't believe we would be serious challengers until 2011 at the earliest.

2. The club completes its review and decides that they will give Wallace another 2 years.

Actions speak louder than leaks to Caro. Cameron topped up with Thomson and Hislop. Hardly inspired choices as long term young talent to strengthen a weak list.

Whatever the case is, when someone is getting good articles and a club is in crisis, they are only doing it to save their ars. Whatever the merits or otherwise of cameron, he should be belted out of the club for leaking for his own benefit at a time the club should be united against the media scum.

And he looks like something out of spandau ballet

 

[emperor]

That post is CoggaRules"esque", But in reverse.....or is it....I'm getting confused

 

[Goldust]

She, or her subs, misspelled Pola(c)k!!!!

 

[IDGAF]

And he looks like something out of spandau ballet

Genuinely LMAO

it is quite the bouffant`

Them or ABC

 

[JimmyRecard]

Well in part I totally agree and don't care if we finish 16th or 2nd as long as we are heading in the right direction to win a flag, and in short coming into this season we had gapping holes some of which appear to be closing and others appear to have opened which is a concern.
At the end of last season I believe we lacked :


Problem : The developement of mid-sized backman who could replace McMahon and Bowden who choose to play somewhat unaccountable and stop-start going wide football.
Solution : Bling, Polo, Rance have all been tried there this year and shown their worth.

Problem : Small backman options.
Solution : Raines started well prior to injury, injuries in mid-field has not permitted White to be tried down back, whilst Edwards did show some early season form down back.

Problem : Genuine KP forward set-up.
Solution : Pattison who looms as the great white hope at CHF has been injured whilst Schulz is being moved around due to lack of opportunities.

i think your views specifically on these 3 problems are much to simplistic and bias.

Firstly, "Bling, Polo, Rance have shown there worth"?

Last week bling wasnt even in the firsts, polo played a tagging role on davey who was man of the match and showed hes real weakeness in his game... speed. And Rance had 6 clangers on sunday.
Far from what i would call a 'solution".

As for small back options, king and edwards are shit, but i think everyone already knew that already. Raines is ok, yet has no real awareness... he is seriously a rugby player, just gets the ball and runs straight away usually into trouble where he has to hanball out. And white will never be a small back, hes got explosive pace we need to utlise on the wing.

Pattison at CHF? no where near the mobility to do the job. he will always be back up to simmonds and in 1 or 2 years too Vickery.

More or less i see those areas as needing real improvement. We need a better backline distributor first and foremost, an excellent kick who also tackles as first prefernce, if we could clone a right footed newman that would be ideal, but we will have to wait to see what we can get in the draft.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Spot on!

We will need another 2 to 3 years to get our list into alignment and by then we still will be missing the 6 or so required veterans.

This is what Wallace started with - it will almost take take a generation of players (10years) to really scynchronise the list again.

That's it ata...or recruiting the right mid-age players, which is difficult.

When Wallace was talking about our golden period of 2011-2015 this is what he was referring to - this is what Caro conveniently missed, she knows this - but you sell far more papers if you write a story that Richmond expects to finish 9th again!

After that bollocks about March my conspiracy meter twitched again mate!

 

[ata40]

That's it ata...or recruiting the right mid-age players, which is difficult.



After that bollocks about March my conspiracy meter twitched again mate!

Yeah has me in spins as well.

He did a 180 yesterday to spread the heat.

Blamed the weak mindset of the players, had Richo front the media and rally behind TW, and finished the night giving Caro an exclusive via Cameron on how we may have overrated our list.

All very good but very reactionary and late. He should have questioned the players and more importantly the seniors in Bowden, Brown and Simmo after the Carlton game and hosed down Sheedy and co. talking Premierships before the first bounce of the season.

 

[TigerAntho]

The "5 year plan" isn't this year, but 2011 onwards. What looks like happening is a Ratten, Pagan built that Blues list and rats came in and reaped the rewards. It seems whoever comes in after Wallace won;t have it as easy, but will reap similar rewards as a bunch of players move from the under 23's into the prime of their careers between 23 and 27.