Its Offical..Cronulla Sharks are broke

[gostk86]

IT'S the uncertainty no one in the Sutherland Shire wants to relive.
Just 15 years after their beloved footy side staved off insolvency, the Cronulla Sharks have again been forced to seek financial aid as the leagues club struggles to deflect the ravages of soaring poker machine taxes and indoor smoking bans.
The Daily Telegraph has learned Sharks officials requested a $1 million loan from St George Bank in September to pay wages and bills over Christmas. The football club needed the liquidity because Sharkies Leagues Club no longer has the means to drip-feed it cash on demand over the slow-trading summer period.


St George Bank, however, could only approve $500,000. In addition, the bank asked the Sharks to conduct an independent financial review of both the leagues and football clubs.
The global economic crisis has tightened lines of credit to all lenders. Plus, the entire Sharks group no longer boasts enough financial surety to command a $1 million loan.
As auditors from sleeve sponsor and global accountant PKF yesterday interviewed staff at the Sharks base in Woolooware, group chairman Barry Pierce conceded "hard calls" would need to be made.
Possible measures could include staff redundancies, player salary cuts and the axing of junior teams.
But the $500,000 loan will maintain the status quo over the short-term, as will a bonus from major sponsor LG and NRL prizemoney for finishing in the top four last season.


"We have got PKF in at the moment - they are doing a review of both the football club and the leagues club and St George Bank is supportive of that," Pierce said.
"I want to stress that we've got the full support of the bank - they've been behind us for 18 years."
Despite receiving a $1.5 million licensed club grant and finishing equal first in the minor premiership, the football club is still expected to record a $500,000 loss for 2008.
Pierce was involved when Cronulla flirted with insolvency during the early '90s, and suggested the current climate was even tougher for Sydney-based clubs. "It was hard times 15 years ago, but we didn't have smoking bans and gaming taxes to contend with back then," he said.
On the positive side, Cronulla have retained all their sponsors for 2009 and will earn big money from the South Australian government for transferring a home game to Adelaide.
The leagues club is also sweating on offers from two builders interested in building a nursing home and retail complex in land surrounding the club.

As sad as it is, they've been in trouble for a number of years, relocation is the only way to save the club.

 

[jerry springer]

as long as they save these girls I will be happy

 

[CooperCronk]

Well their supporters should copy what North Melb. and Melb. afl teams did here in Melb. to try and save their club. They need to have a huge membership drive to start off with then maybe sack those dancing girls and employ dancing boys, who should do it for free

Otherwise relocation is another option - maybe play some more games interstate = try Tassie. Mars Bars might jump on the bandwagon.

 

[DollyB]

I think the membership drive is a good idea. Govts are beginning to realise that you need to tax pokies extra for all the flow on effects of social damage they cause (or at least facilitate), rather than viewing the taxes as a simple windfall. Therefore, in lieu of pokie revenues - and local social problems effectively subsidised by a state govt deluded thinking it's getting easy money from the taxes - League clubs need to move towards proper membership bases. AFL memberships in Victoria have never been stronger than in the last fifteen years and continue to grow; part of the reason for this was that in the early 90s it became bleedingly obvious that the huge memberships of West Coast and then Adelaide formed the basis for consistent on field excellence.

Off-field work proceeds sustainable on-field success. It's funny, Melbourne always had its Big Four -Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Richmond, although these four clubs originally represented different strata of the working class rather than truly wealthy patronages and had infinitely more fans than paid-up members. The Dees also always had a good fanbase, but it's always been relatively apathetic about losing (and winning), and Geelong is, despite having a huge number of Melburnian fans, Geelong. Richmond has definitely fallen well below that level (despite a lot of fans waiting in the woodwork for a good twenty years after their 70s hey day); they don't perform on the field in part because they don't have the membership base, and they don't have the membership base because they don't perform. The proud, passionate and paid up supporters of a Hawthorn, a Bulldogs or a North (NB these are still in Victorian minds the 'new' admissions of 1925; if they had even been truly big teams they would have been invited into the VFL in 1897, or like Richmond (and Port Melbourne - who were blocked in part due to the strength of hatred they brought out in the other teams) would have devoted great political effort towards getting into the VFL ASAP) lay the groundwork for them to continue to hit above the weight of their overall fanbases.

So the moral of my didactic tale is that even in ancient markets like Melbourne - and Cronulla is basically what would be called an expansion team in the US, not a tradition-bound icon - the order of things can change. Even TV revenues aren't enough to carry hidebound operations (indeed, revenue addiction puts footy teams at the mercy of media bottom lines), and Cronulla needs to find a new way of doing things. Don't worry about relatively better off outfits like St George, Manly and Easts; they're still backward clowns, just with bigger margins for error. Follow the Hawks, follow North, they know what they're doing.

 

[CooperCronk]

I think the membership drive is a good idea. Govts are beginning to realise that you need to tax pokies extra for all the flow on effects of social damage they cause (or at least facilitate), rather than viewing the taxes as a simple windfall. Therefore, in lieu of pokie revenues - and local social problems effectively subsidised by a state govt deluded thinking it's getting easy money from the taxes - League clubs need to move towards proper membership bases. AFL memberships in Victoria have never been stronger than in the last fifteen years and continue to grow; part of the reason for this was that in the early 90s it became bleedingly obvious that the huge memberships of West Coast and then Adelaide formed the basis for consistent on field excellence.

Off-field work proceeds sustainable on-field success. It's funny, Melbourne always had its Big Four -Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Richmond, although these four clubs originally represented different strata of the working class rather than truly wealthy patronages and had infinitely more fans than paid-up members. The Dees also always had a good fanbase, but it's always been relatively apathetic about losing (and winning), and Geelong is, despite having a huge number of Melburnian fans, Geelong. Richmond has definitely fallen well below that level (despite a lot of fans waiting in the woodwork for a good twenty years after their 70s hey day); they don't perform on the field in part because they don't have the membership base, and they don't have the membership base because they don't perform. The proud, passionate and paid up supporters of a Hawthorn, a Bulldogs or a North (NB these are still in Victorian minds the 'new' admissions of 1925; if they had even been truly big teams they would have been invited into the VFL in 1897, or like Richmond (and Port Melbourne - who were blocked in part due to the strength of hatred they brought out in the other teams) would have devoted great political effort towards getting into the VFL ASAP) lay the groundwork for them to continue to hit above the weight of their overall fanbases.

So the moral of my didactic tale is that even in ancient markets like Melbourne - and Cronulla is basically what would be called an expansion team in the US, not a tradition-bound icon - the order of things can change. Even TV revenues aren't enough to carry hidebound operations (indeed, revenue addiction puts footy teams at the mercy of media bottom lines), and Cronulla needs to find a new way of doing things. Don't worry about relatively better off outfits like St George, Manly and Easts; they're still backward clowns, just with bigger margins for error. Follow the Hawks, follow North, they know what they're doing.

Hello Dolly, welcome back to the board...

A very learned post...one the rugby leagues clubs could learn from.

You might be happy to hear that this year the nrl are making a big push to drive memberships up and are actually putting ads on tv and pay-tv which is a big positive....they are finally learning from afl which has a lot to offer on a professional way to run sport.

I wouldn't be surprised that some influence could have come from Brian Waldron, who as you would know now is Storms CEO and previously was with Richmond?

Did you manage to watch the final of the rugby league cup?

 

[DollyB]

I did see bits and pieces of last night's match. Certainly a great result for the game. The length of the RLWC isn't really justified by the standard of the competition, but I think the top four group concept was great in capturing the accrued nerves and concussion that can lead to interesting results, much like the NRL finals.

I guess it will be interesting to see whether the game explodes (if only by league standards) in NZ. It seems a bit doomed to want to artificially graft an expensive PNG team out of the fairly contestable claim that league is PNG's national sport, and a second NZ team may be more viable.

Also great to time the cricket tour for the same time as the likely Aus-NZ final; my enthusiasm for a possible and deserved Black Caps upset, which dissipated over the last session, carried over into the league game. Let's hope Vettori can put a fifty on and give them a chance.

 

[likka]

Good.

Any sporting club whose main avenue of financial survival is based on gambling should go broke. Any steps the govt can take to make gambling a less attractive business proposition is a move in the right direction.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Cronulla own their own ground, the only team in the NRL that does and they own lots of land behind their stadium and Leagues club, they are going nowhere I would think.

Property investors have had their eyes on the land for years and it is worth quite a fair bit.

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

I did see bits and pieces of last night's match. Certainly a great result for the game. The length of the RLWC isn't really justified by the standard of the competition, but I think the top four group concept was great in capturing the accrued nerves and concussion that can lead to interesting results, much like the NRL finals.

The tournament was about as short as a 10-team competition could possibly be. Besides, Pools 2 and 3 were extremely evenly matched and produced quite excellent matches. The only other option would be not to have had the competition at all (i.e have the 4 Nations)... which would obviously not have delivered the benefits that International RL will accrue from this tournament (i.e. $5 million in profit, increased exposure in several countries, etc.)

I guess it will be interesting to see whether the game explodes (if only by league standards) in NZ.

Well, League is aleady a mainstream sport in NZ - if you're suggesting it isn't already. A quick glance at it's treatment by the major news outlets during the NRL season (especially when the Warriors are doing well) shows this pretty clearly... look at the coverage at the moment, for example... winning the World Cup is considered a very great and significant sporting achievement.

and a second NZ team may be more viable

If this is what you mean by "explodes" then I agree. NZ has enough professional players in both Australia and England to make up another team.

It seems a bit doomed to want to artificially graft an expensive PNG team out of the fairly contestable claim that league is PNG's national sport

Contestable, how? It clearly is the most popular sport and by a fair way. The only sport that rivals it is Soccer (which is the other semi-pro sport there) with it's involvement in the O-League.

 

[Couger]

Cronulla own their own ground, the only team in the NRL that does and they own lots of land behind their stadium and Leagues club, they are going nowhere I would think.

Deffinately not going anywhere in a hurry, but what of the long term future? You think they should sell up and hope for a turn around, maybe merge or sell everything and finance a relocation?

 

[CooperCronk]

As I said before, if the supporters and the Shire really get behind the team, it would go a long way in saving the team.

There are so many things that can be done to save the club - strong leadership from the front office is of vital importance.

 

[Couger]

As I said before, if the supporters and the Shire really get behind the team, it would go a long way in saving the team.

That's been the problem. I don't know why that's so because they are an attractive team and have that area to themselves. I just don't see a recovery happening in a hurry.

 

[CooperCronk]

That's been the problem. I don't know why that's so because they are an attractive team and have that area to themselves. I just don't see a recovery happening in a hurry.

That's so weird. I think NSW rugby league supporters in general need a huge injection of passion somehow.

 

[DollyB]

Well, League is aleady a mainstream sport in NZ - if you're suggesting it isn't already. A quick glance at it's treatment by the major news outlets during the NRL season (especially when the Warriors are doing well) shows this pretty clearly... look at the coverage at the moment, for example... winning the World Cup is considered a very great and significant sporting achievement.

I'd argue that they'd much, much rather win another RWC- the league win is a pleasant surprise rather than a vindication of the national self-image. Not that that diminishes the achievement. I wonder where a second NRL team would go; Wellington or Christchurch? Christchurch would probably be a tougher sell with the rugby parochialism, but it would mark a significant cultural shift if it were able to sustain a healthy league team.

I find the whole league is PNG's national sport thing a bit manufactured. It seems like special pleading when it's tied to calls for a Port Moresby NRL team; a bit like the Tasmanian case for an AFL team, but far less financially or even market-penetration/culturally sound (I think it'll take a 15 000-a-match A-League side in Hobart to change the AFL's mind... and then the AFL has to deal with the deeply cultural sop of playing games in Launceston and the business model's requirement of far larger crowds). It's kind of like saying basketball is Lithuania's national sport; my idea of a national sport is something that is of local origin and so token it's not taken too seriously, like lacrosse in Canada (Canadians actually get faux pissed off if you suggest one of their popular sports, ice hockey or Canadian football, is their national game). While league is undoubtedly the most popular sport in PNG, I think that's more a testament to atypically competent league evangelism and development over the last forty years (of course, you could argue that the country's only been independent since 75...). Australian football certainly had something of a foothold around WWII, as most of the military units stationed there were Victorian and West Australian. The AFL has got some ground back (having somewhat dropped the ball from the mid 70s to late 90s), and the Mosquitos won the 2008 International Cup, which is becoming less of a mean feat with each iteration.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Deffinately not going anywhere in a hurry, but what of the long term future? You think they should sell up and hope for a turn around, maybe merge or sell everything and finance a relocation?

I have no idea, maybe they are looking long term with their games in Adelaide coming next year?

The only thing going for them really is they own the stadium and the land behind it.

(Plus the Sharks name)

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

I'd argue that they'd much, much rather win another RWC- the league win is a pleasant surprise rather than a vindication of the national self-image. Not that that diminishes the achievement.

No argument from me, there. Obviously - Union is by far the more popular football, however, this isn't to mean that Rugby league is not a popular, mainstream sport - at least in Auckland, Wellington and the West Coast of the South Island (the only place outside of Auckland's southern suburbs where League is arguably more popular than Union).

You don't need to be #1 to be mainstream.

I wonder where a second NRL team would go; Wellington or Christchurch? Christchurch would probably be a tougher sell with the rugby parochialism, but it would mark a significant cultural shift if it were able to sustain a healthy league team.

As I said above, Wellington is the other place of significance in NZ where League is a reasonably popular game. There are a large number of current NRL players who are juniors from that part of NZ - Simon Mannering, David Faiumu, Paul Whatuira, and past players like John Lomax... The Wainuiomata Rugby League club in particular has produced some wonderful players (including some who have ended up 'defecting' to Union such as All Black Tama Umaga - current coach of Toulon).

I find the whole league is PNG's national sport thing a bit manufactured. It seems like special pleading when it's tied to calls for a Port Moresby NRL team

It would be "manufactured" if it were Australians (or Englishmen) who were telling them it was their national sport and were behind the idea... but it's Papua New Guineans themselves who are telling us it is their national sport. After all, the idea of an NRL team in Port Moresby is their idea - not something dreamt up in Sydney, Brisbane or Leeds. It's them who have put up the 20million kina to build a new NRL-ready stadium, it was their Government that have put a new levy on foreign businesses to help pay for the team, their PM who has discussed the matter with the Australian Cabinet and the Australian Prime Minister.

While league is undoubtedly the most popular sport in PNG, I think that's more a testament to atypically competent league evangelism and development over the last forty years (of course, you could argue that the country's only been independent since 75...)

Yes, the country has been independent since 1975. But, no, I disagree that the popularity of the sport had much to do with the competency of Australian RL authorities at all - the PNGeans were exposed to the game in WWII and took it up (it being considered the closest acceptable alternative to real clan wars). When PNG celebrated their independence they sent their national RL team, the Kumuls, on a tour to play Rugby league against England and France.

In other words, the game was entrenched there before widespread TV coverage of the sport in PNG, before full-time professional contracts, before News Ltd., before Australian Rugby league people in NSW or Queensland had any expansion agenda or had employed even one "Development Officer"... or run even one "Kids to Kangaroos" program.

They saw it, they liked it. Obviously, having a large number of ex-pat Australians playing there at first helped... but the game was 100% indigenous pretty quickly.

Australian football certainly had something of a foothold around WWII, as most of the military units stationed there were Victorian and West Australian.

As I said above, RL was introduced there by WWII soldiers. I recall an anecdote from Roy Masters about attending a VFL match with the then Victorian RSL President "Rusty" Priest... Rusty turned to Roy and sneered "Oh, you're that fellow who writes about that bum sniffing game. I remember seeing the Natives in PNG playing it against our soliders in WWII... how does it go? Bum-sniff, bum-sniff, one-two-three..." Hilarious.

The whole idea that PNG was once Aussie Rules territory or that it was somehow popular there before RL "evilly" took over through Murdoch's use of TV and offering pro contracts to guys like Marcus Bai is utter nonsense... the game was established and popular there decades before this.

In fact, I never cease to be surprised by the passion for the game of RL in PNG... they even play it all year round - in fact, I was reading in the PNG press about how the Summer RL seasons are now beginning in Port Moresby, and across the other provinces... and there's a huge Sevens tournament on the east coast in December... nothing that happens in Australia can rival this year-round obsession. If you know about PNG weather you would know how remarkable this is!

The AFL has got some ground back (having somewhat dropped the ball from the mid 70s to late 90s), and the Mosquitos won the 2008 International Cup, which is becoming less of a mean feat with each iteration.

Yes, it's played there - which is great - in a country as troubled as PNG, young people need as many options as possible to stay fit and healthy and away from crime. But as for popularity or participation - it's alongside several other sports which are no more or no less popular than it is... Meanwhile, I'm not sure what the "Mosquitoes" (by the way, what a daft name for a team in a country with a massive problem with malaria - and yes, I realise it's a reference to their general short stature, ala the Essendon "Mosquitoes") winning the AFL International Cup means to anyone. Considering how impossible it is to gauge the form of unknown competitors in an amateur competition which is based on who can afford to come and features some teams who can barely even play the game... it's pretty hard to know what kind of achievement it was.

 

[CumberlandsAshes]

double post!

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Ouch

The Kumuls played their guts out in the RLWC, a real credit.

"Oh, you're that fellow who writes about that bum sniffing game. I remember seeing the Natives in PNG playing it against our soliders in WWII... how does it go? Bum-sniff, bum-sniff, one-two-three..."Hilarious.

Now that's hilarious.

 

[colourpurple]

Meanwhile, I'm not sure what the "Mosquitoes" winning the AFL International Cup means to anyone.

It means the PNG are the strongest AR country outside of Australia,
that they finally overcome their strong arch rival NZ. They beat Ireland which has growing numbers playing in the AFL other numerically strong countries and historically strong countries .

Considering how impossible it is to gauge the form of unknown competitors in an amateur competition which is based on who can afford to come and features some teams who can barely even play the game... it's pretty hard to know what kind of achievement it was.

Actually the form of nearly all teams was quite predictable and predictably close to those of their official rankings .

 

[CooperCronk]

It means the PNG are the strongest AR country outside of Australia,
that they finally overcome their strong arch rival NZ. They beat Ireland which has growing numbers playing in the AFL other numerically strong countries and historically strong countries .

I guess this means we can all look forward to the AFL World Cup soon

 

[gostk86]

wow huge post by cumberland lol

15000 last year for a test match to me was a sign we have lost wellington

 

[colourpurple]

I guess this means we can all look forward to the AFL World Cup soon

Yes,soon it wll be as prestigeous as the rlwc.

 

[colourpurple]

I guess this means we can all look forward to the AFL World Cup

Yes, soon it will be prestigeous as the rlwc.

 

[gostk86]

Yes, soon it will be prestigeous as the rlwc.

so the afl world cup lol

had 50k at final?

watch by 127 countries?

 

[colourpurple]

watch by 127 countries?

But not much in Australia.Fair enough .