J Cloke good trade bait

[MarkT]

Recruitment changes were made only 2 years ago. Other personnel changes 1 year ago. Are you seriously telling me thats enough time to make a jugement whether theyve been positive or had no effect? Sounds like a Cam Cloke call to me. But its a free opinion so Im getting what I pay for I suppose.

You are right. We should set low standards, stay loyal to our staff and find reasons to continue with them. When they get a good player with pick 2 we should give them a pay rise I suppose because they have done better than the last bloke, who incidentally has been retained so we can keep his contacts that worked so beautifully in stocking our list with world beaters.

Look, I have nothing against Hine but the reality he has shown nothing whatsoever to suggest he is anything better than average. That said I am more than prepared to reserve judgement and allow more time to assess his crop(s). He’s one of how many people in our failed football department. How long does the coach get? Is 7 years too early to make a call on his ability to pick the right trades, cull players on time, resurrect dissatisfaction with players wanting to leave, recognise deficiencies like the ruck and midfield etc etc etc?

The bottom line question is are you happy with our personal and their roles? I have no hesitation in saying I am not. I have results to back me up. You have theories of improvement from poor to, what, average?

 

[MarkT]

Name one victorian side that has performed better than Collingwood in the last 5 years??
I put it to you that we are the best performed side in victoria in the last 5 years and as there are 10 vic sides in a 16 side comp my math says thats better than average.

In the last 5 years we have had 2 good seasons, two bad and one average. In that time no Victorian club has won a GF. We have had numerous early draft picks on top of a pretty good upper level inherited from the 1999 squad. Whether any other Victorian club has performed better is debatable but it’s frankly a counter productive debate. We aren’t competing just against the other Victorian clubs. Financially we have a sensational board but as custodians of the football results they have failed badly. The best assessment, if you want to win flags in the future is to take it from a sensation (in light of the list) performance in 2002. Surely at that point we should have assessed why we lost the GF and done more than blame salary cap assistance. Then having come up short again in 2003 what did we do? More whinging but nothing to address the obvious ruck deficiency or the current and looming midfield issues. Well when I say nothing I count bringing in duds as worse than doing nothing actually.

The assessment has to be relative to our entire competition and in light of our resources and draft opportunities.

Why is this important? Because it is about premierships and we have continually failed to deliver.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Name one victorian side that has performed better than Collingwood in the last 5 years??
I put it to you that we are the best performed side in victoria in the last 5 years and as there are 10 vic sides in a 16 side comp my math says thats better than average. .

We are not a "Victorian side". We are one side out of sixteen and need to be compared with the everybody else, not just a few.

We have won four flags since world war 2. Thats not better than average in anybody's language.

Since the introduction of the national competition, we have won one flag in sixteen years and that was sixteen years ago. Its right on average (under the theory that all teams will win one every sixteen years) but its quickly slipping back behind average as we envisage another 3-4 years in the wilderness.

 

[ant22]

hang on a second fellas , I don't for one second think that we can be happy with 2 flasg in 50 years. I thought this debate was about the current football department not performing not the football department over the last 50 years. I am talking about recent history and for me making 2 gfs and 1 final in 5 years is better than atleast 10 other clubs. That tells me the department has not done a bad job. Its not perfect but its no reason to do anything stupid like have a major overhaul.

The reason for my comparison to the other vic clubs is that there seems to be a real problem at the moment for vic clubs . It just seems it is really hard for us to compete as the moment. Not sure why this is and I don't have any answers. Hearing during the week that some interstate side my tell locals to hold back so they can nab them in the draft is a real concern but it could be a bit of bulldust. We have made a better fist of it than most.

We have had some good picks in the draft Mark but there are clubs who have had better. In fact I reckon when Mick came to the club we improved to quickly and missed the 3 or so years in a row where we finsished bottom like the saints and like the hawks are doing now.

As for the line about Eddie always promising the best for the club etc etc. Eddie is pretty much a politician, he has done a great job but are we so arrogant to believe that just because we are collingwood we can get anything and everything we wan't?? If only it was that easy.

We all wan't the best for the club but I reckon some of the criticism's are a little unfair.