Jeff Gieschen: Ump got it wrong

[johncitizen]

Mark Stevens | June 17, 2008 12:00am


THE AFL has conceded the decision that helped turn Sunday's Carlton-Collingwood blockbuster was wrong.

Umpire Justin Schmitt awarded Carlton's Brad Fisher a free kick for a push in the back just 10m from goal in the third term, shifting momentum towards the Blues.

"From our perspective, it was unwarranted," umpires' director Jeff Gieschen said yesterday.

Replays showed neither Magpie, Shane Wakelin nor Scott Burns, touched the back of Fisher.

Skipper Burns was particularly furious after the decision, pointing to the scoreboard as he headed back to the centre.

Fisher's goal cut the Magpies lead from 16 to 10 points.

It turned into a double-whammy as Carlton kicked another goal directly from the following centre bounce.

"The umpire thought he saw a push from the front - looking at the replay that didn't happen," Gieschen said.

Collingwood coach Mick Malthouse was riled by the decision, inferring in his post-match press conference that it was a major turning point.

"I think a few players were very despondent over a few bits and pieces that happened within the space of a few minutes and maybe that takes the wind out of your sails and the momentum shifts," Malthouse said, choosing his words carefully.

"I'm not allowed to refer to decisions."

Gieschen strongly defended another contentious decision involving Magpie Paul Medhurst, who marked 5m from goal in the final term, but had an in-the-back free paid against him.

It may have been one of the "bits and pieces" Malthouse was referring too, but Gieschen was not budging.

"The one against Medhurst was a correct decision. You can clearly see the pushing motion from Medhurst," Gieschen said.

"In a marking contest, the rule book clearly states you're not allowed to bump, block, push or hold, regardless of how far away the ball is."

Umpire Damien Sully, dropped after Round 5 after his now infamous bounce in the final term in the Collingwood-Kangaroos match, returned to senior action on Sunday.

Sully, who was dropped to the VFL, received a tick for his officiating in the Richmond-Melbourne game

 

[Godfrey Jones]

lets get over it. these things happen

we should never be in a position where an umpire influences the result, against the likes of CARLTON>>>>>>!!!!

 

[Invigoration]

"In a marking contest, the rule book clearly states you're not allowed to bump, block, push or hold"

Umm, what? So your not allowed to shoulder to shoulder, bump someone out of the contest?

Push in the side has always been allowed as well.

 

[Godfrey Jones]

the umpiring has been shocking throughout AFL for several years now

tell us something new mate

 

[mdc]

Umm, what? So your not allowed to shoulder to shoulder, bump someone out of the contest?

Push in the side has always been allowed as well.

Moreover, if Medhurst's was a correct decision, Fev needs to give back more than half his goals. He pushes the defender off every time.

 

[BEEG]

I have never been a person to blame umps i never really thought they could have an influence in games but this year Collingwood have been screwed over a few times

North Melbourne
some of the decisions were a joke and that bounce lost us the game.

Brisbane
Leading all game it was like someone rang the Umps and said this last quarter we are going to pay everything Brisbanes way we were just murdered that last Quarter.

Carlton
Some of the Decisions in the game were a joke i know a couple of stupid one's went our way but we got screwed over again i remember Carlton player getting stuck into Medders forget who it was but he went on doing this for about 4 minutes after everything cooled down i was at that end of the ground Medders pushed him in the chest and the was a free kick awarded JOKE

 

[Godfrey Jones]

North Melbourne
some of the decisions were a joke and that bounce lost us the game.

Rhyce Shaw's handball lost us that game. didak's miss lost us that game...

Brisbane
Leading all game it was like someone rang the Umps and said this last quarter we are going to pay everything Brisbanes way we were just murdered that last Quarter.

It was wet and we were up like 3 goals, we shouldnt even had them dominating the game and kicking it into their forward 50 to create chances to start with.

Carlton
Some of the Decisions in the game were a joke i know a couple of stupid one's went our way but we got screwed over again i remember Carlton playing getting stuck into Medders forget who it was but he went on doing this for about 4 minutes after everything cooled down i was at that end of the ground Medders pushed him in the chest and the was a free kick awarded JOKE

havent seen the blues game yet


but i hate blaming the umps. really i do. it leads to nothing. lets focus on what we can change. where can our team improve? matchups? selections? tactics? ... what?

we wont change the umps unfortunately and we just look like sooks when we bring them up after the game

guess what, every team feels like their is a conspiracy against them and the umps hate them.

 

[Kirby]

Umm, what? So your not allowed to shoulder to shoulder, bump someone out of the contest?

Push in the side has always been allowed as well.

Yeah, I thought the rule was that you couldn't do those things into the back? The side has always been fair game within 5 metres of the ball. If it's not, then the likes of Richo and Rocca would barely ever take a contested mark.

 

[BEEG]

Rhyce Shaw's handball lost us that game. didak's miss lost us that game...



It was wet and we were up like 3 goals, we shouldnt even had them dominating the game and kicking it into their forward 50 to create chances to start with.



havent seen the blues game yet


but i hate blaming the umps. really i do. it leads to nothing. lets focus on what we can change. where can our team improve? matchups? selections? tactics? ... what?

we wont change the umps unfortunately and we just look like sooks when we bring them up after the game

guess what, every team feels like their is a conspiracy against them and the umps hate them.

North
Kicked a goal straight from a bounce because a ump didnt have the balls to call it back and there was way to many wrong decisions

Brisbane
it was like 10 free kicks in the last to about 2 and everytime we wnet near a Brisbane player they would blow there whistles

Carlton
Lol watch the game its a intersting one a few of the ball decisions which were paid to Carlton when it was a Carlton player doing all the crap Cloke was held on to everytime he went near the ball like F.E dont pay the little things but dont then go and pay them to Carlton all day

Mate i hate blaming Umps and i have never done it not even when i played footy but these 3 games this year have really changed my views on umpires they are just so one sided in games and they cost us in the North and Brisbane game and didnt do a great job in the Carlton

 

[Blueboys11]

North
Kicked a goal straight from a bounce because a ump didnt have the balls to call it back and there was way to many wrong decisions

Brisbane
it was like 10 free kicks in the last to about 2 and everytime we wnet near a Brisbane player they would blow there whistles

Carlton
Lol watch the game its a intersting one a few of the ball decisions which were paid to Carlton when it was a Carlton player doing all the crap Cloke was held on to everytime he went near the ball like F.E dont pay the little things but dont then go and pay them to Carlton all day

Mate i hate blaming Umps and i have never done it not even when i played footy but these 3 games this year have really changed my views on umpires they are just so one sided in games and they cost us in the North and Brisbane game and didnt do a great job in the Carlton

May i suggest you take a quick look at the second 1/4 of the Carlton game and consider the mark taken off Fisher in the goalsquare ( certain goal, in the back????where??? ), the free kick to Lockyer for holding ( ??? have watched the replay several times and still havnt spotted a free ), the free kick to Thomas ( which he subsequently missed from 20m ) and then also the free kick to Swan in the goalsquare which was soft and resulted in a goal.

Decisions go both ways...yes we were lucky with the Fisher one in the 3rd quarter, but taking into account the disallowed mark in the 2nd, that would appear to even out.....

Looking at the stats, you guys had 5 frees inside your 50 to our 3. Enough said.....

 

[THEBLOODS85]

May i suggest you take a quick look at the second 1/4 of the Carlton game and consider the mark taken off Fisher in the goalsquare ( certain goal, in the back????where??? ), the free kick to Lockyer for holding ( ??? have watched the replay several times and still havnt spotted a free ), the free kick to Thomas ( which he subsequently missed from 20m ) and then also the free kick to Swan in the goalsquare which was soft and resulted in a goal.

Decisions go both ways...yes we were lucky with the Fisher one in the 3rd quarter, but taking into account the disallowed mark in the 2nd, that would appear to even out.....

Looking at the stats, you guys had 5 frees inside your 50 to our 3. Enough said.....

....I am glad someone else watched what I was watching......plenty of shit, frustrating frees both ways!

 

[DidakDelight]

There's no doubt that anyone who was there knows that that was the turning point of the game.

But

We were level at 3 quarter time and if we had enough guts and spirit would have won.

Medhursts decision was wrong and Fev sausage did the same for atleast 3 goals.


But again...

Happens every week in every game.

Its time to Americanise the game and introduce a challenge system.
2 per quarter

 

[Brad Goodman]

We didn't deserve to win the game, regardless of any umpiring decisions.

 

[Helfarch]

"In a marking contest, the rule book clearly states you're not allowed to bump, block, push or hold, regardless of how far away the ball is."

How come Harry O and Brown didn't get a free every single time Fev went on the lead as his first action is always to push his direct opponent in the chest?

Idiots.

 

[Smoky]

Fevola pushed neally every marking contest... admittedly not in the back as he always leads from the front, but according to Jeff's description of why medhursts was a free kick, Fevola got away with about four marking decisions that were clearly pushes

 

[kaness]

Fevola pushed neally every marking contest... admittedly not in the back as he always leads from the front, but according to Jeff's description of why medhursts was a free kick, Fevola got away with about four marking decisions that were clearly pushes

Yeah totally agree... seeing that free paid against Medhurst made me see red. After the push fest Fevola was dealing out all day it's a complete joke.

Or when a forward holds and then provokes the defender to then hold also to keep his footing then a forward lets go and pushes off... If the defender lets go it's 9 times out of 10 going to be a mark to the forward, or if the defender holds on to keep his footing its a free 9/10 for holding the man when the forward has initiated first contact.

Although I do agree that blaming the umpires is not the solution. It has to be said that such free kicks in crucial parts of the game have the potential to swing the momentum and that my friends changes the result of games too often for my liking.

Complete and utter disgrace really.

 

[OniAu]

Rhyce Shaw's handball lost us that game. didak's miss lost us that game...



It was wet and we were up like 3 goals, we shouldnt even had them dominating the game and kicking it into their forward 50 to create chances to start with.



havent seen the blues game yet


but i hate blaming the umps. really i do. it leads to nothing. lets focus on what we can change. where can our team improve? matchups? selections? tactics? ... what?

we wont change the umps unfortunately and we just look like sooks when we bring them up after the game

guess what, every team feels like their is a conspiracy against them and the umps hate them.

player stuff ups are more accepted, no ones going to be angry after the game that they lost because a player made a skill error under pressure.(supporter wise)

having something you cant control just swing momentum the other way because the umpires think theres a free kick there when there tottally isnt,is what angers the fans more. umpires shouldnt be noticed , more often than not they are playing a bigger role than the players in some games

 

[brockbruiser]

"In a marking contest, the rule book clearly states you're not allowed to bump, block, push or hold, regardless of how far away the ball is."



hmm well these rules obviously weren't enforced against Fevola....

 

[carntheroos4eva]

Well said. I was listening to the game and thought that one of the guys had buggered up. Didn't know which one. I tipped you guys to win.... Oh well I hope you beat whoever it is you play next week. Chin up guys.

 

[Blueboys11]

"In a marking contest, the rule book clearly states you're not allowed to bump, block, push or hold, regardless of how far away the ball is."



hmm well these rules obviously weren't enforced against Fevola....

As i mentioned in another thread, please give me an example where Fevola pushed someone out and kicked a goal??

 

[Lestat]

As i mentioned in another thread, please give me an example where Fevola pushed someone out and kicked a goal??

In the second quarter I think...against O'Brien. Fev was on the lead, he stopped, propped and pushed O'Brien back (pushed his chest) and took the mark.

Not saying it was a free kick, cause it wasn't, however, going by Geishem's logic that your can't push an oponent anywhere during a marking contest, then it was no different then Medhursts. (who pushed his oponent in the side.)

 

[mdc]

As i mentioned in another thread, please give me an example where Fevola pushed someone out and kicked a goal??

As Lestat said above me, what Fev does shouldn't be penalised, and it isn't. But how do you think he gets 2-3m headstarts over players who are just as quick as him? He pushes off, and goes. All good forwards do. If the defender closes the gap, he'll stick out an arm to hold them off until the ball comes.

Medhurst did the exact same thing. He held his position, pushed off, and marked. Happens 15 times a game.

 

[Blueboys11]

The difference with the Medhurst one is that both players were running for the ball, and as Thornton jumped to make a simple spoil Medhurst has given him a decent shove in the back/side. You would have to agree that the push was combination of back and side and he used a lot of force, thus warranting the free....

I agree though that I think the Giesch has muddled up his words though in describing what is and isnt a free in a marking contest....

 

[AlecDuncan]

"The one against Medhurst was a correct decision. You can clearly see the pushing motion from Medhurst," Gieschen said.

If it's any consolation Fevola had one of those paid against him last year. It was against St.Kilda and he shoved Gwilt out from the side to take a mark. He was filthy.

In fact he gave away a 50 and then sulked, at least Medhurst didn't do that.

Not saying it's right, just that it's consistent with other frees I've seen.

 

[mdc]

The difference with the Medhurst one is that both players were running for the ball, and as Thornton jumped to make a simple spoil Medhurst has given him a decent shove in the back/side. You would have to agree that the push was combination of back and side and he used a lot of force, thus warranting the free....

I agree though that I think the Giesch has muddled up his words though in describing what is and isnt a free in a marking contest....

Nope, I wouldn't agree with that at all. It was right in the side, and there was hardly a lot of force. Like I said, it happens every quarter of every game, and if forwards weren't allowed to do it they'd be kicking a lot less goals.