Length of games

[STFU Donnie]

The average game length these days is approximately 3.5 hours, and that doesn't take into account extra innings. I know games these days must be longer due to certain unavoidable features - commercial breaks, and the expanded use of relief pitching, etc. But get a load of this!

In his new book, 1927, Bill Bryson describes a double header between the St. Louis Browns and the Yankees in St. Louis. The two games combined featured:

- a total of 45 hits;
- a total of 15 runs (St Louis won both, 6-1 and 6-2).

So they weren't dour pitcher showdowns.

The combined time for both games was 2 hours, 7 minutes. You read that correctly. Game 1 lasted 1:12 and Game 2 lasted a mind-boggling 55 minutes!

Since reading that yesterday afternoon I have tried to imagine how that is even possible, but I'm struggling.

 

[TassieEagle]

Wow that is crazy. Any idea of how many pitches were thrown across both games?

I can't comprehend 45 hits getting packed into just over 2 hours.

 

[mattys123]

The games delayed go for so long for many reasons. TV networks need a long set of ads after every innings, then with every pitcher change they allow them to slowly walk out and warm up and even each at bat takes a ridiculous amount of time now.

One solution was to force batters to stay in the batting box. Watch any player take an at bat these days and after every pitch most will walk out of the batters box, adjust something and then walk back in. Make that a 5-6 pitch at bat and that's probably 2 minutes wasted right there.

The "old guys" talk about how it was an act of courage almost to stand in the batters box throughout your entire at bat.

Games are going too long for sure.

 

[red+black]

I am not even a casual fan of baseball. I used to go watch the Waverley Reds all those years ago out at VFL Park. I love the World Series and baseball highlights on Sports Center, but apart from that, I don't follow the sport.

For a while I've wondered what baseball would be like if it was 3 innings of 9 outs. I think it would make for a better game but there's I'm sure most would argue against it. I'm not sure what the pros and cons of it would be, other than less TV commercials.

 

[STFU Donnie]

Wow that is crazy. Any idea of how many pitches were thrown across both games?

I can't comprehend 45 hits getting packed into just over 2 hours.

45 hits and 18 innings in 2 hrs 7 minutes! It's just unbelievable! But it's true.

 

[STFU Donnie]

Wow that is crazy. Any idea of how many pitches were thrown across both games?

I can't comprehend 45 hits getting packed into just over 2 hours.

I've been to baseball-reference.com and they confirm all of BB's points. Unfortunately the box scores of those days did not include total pitches - either received or thrown. But I can tell you that in Game 1, StL threw a complete game and NYY used two pitchers. In Game 2 both teams used two pitchers.

 

[flamethrower]

I remember going to a game in 1991 in San Diego that took less than 2 hours.

Both pitchers (Greg Harris and John Smoltz) pitched complete games and the Pads won 1-0.

I have also been to 9 inning games that finished after midnight (7.05 start) with no rain delays.

 

[GreyCrow]

Its similar to cricket. 100 over days were the norm in the 20s and 30s. Bradman would lazily hit 300 in a day. Now , similar to the batter walking out the box , so do cricketers step away to leg side and look around adjusting then step back in. And yet the game still revolves around the batsman.

I would love to see a pitcher throw one when the batter is out of his box just to see what happens

 

[STFU Donnie]

Its similar to cricket. 100 over days were the norm in the 20s and 30s. Bradman would lazily hit 300 in a day. Now , similar to the batter walking out the box , so do cricketers step away to leg side and look around adjusting then step back in. And yet the game still revolves around the batsman.

I would love to see a pitcher throw one when the batter is out of his box just to see what happens

Well over 100 overs. The 20 overs in the final hour of a match was originally introduced to stop captains slowing the game down to such an extent that fewer than 20 overs were bowled; this was considered scandalous behaviour!

Example: 1930 Lord's test between Australia and England. 4 days, Australia won the match an hour before stumps on the 4th day. Total overs bowled - 507.

That's an average of 22 overs per hour, or 132 per day.

 

[basashi]

I went to Diamondbacks @ Padres on a saturday night 16th april. I left midway through the 13th (thought the Dockers game would be on cable at 11:40pm.... it wasn't) and there was hardly anyone left at Petco.

HR in the 14th sealed the game.

Overall it is very hard to predict and it does take a huge amount of time. crowd was down to less than 30% by end of 10th (my estimate).

 

[GreyCrow]

Seems as if the Intentional Walk will be changed to a direction from the Manager or Pitcher

The change in the rule for intentional walks rule would end the long-standing practice of requiring the pitcher to toss four soft pitches outside the strike zone. MLB is proposing a team instead could just signify it wants to issue an intentional walk and the hitter would be sent directly to first base, ESPN reported.

MLB may look into a set number of time outs ( similar to NFL and NBA) to stop pitch visits. This wont be for a few years yet.

 

[RPCB]

One way to quicken up the game is to actually enforce the rule MLB has in place, 12 seconds between pitchers. When probably every team has a human rain delay (such as Pedro Baez) taking over 1 full minute for every pitch, it is no wonder everything is slowed down to a crawl. Pedro Baez could take 3 minutes to get a batter out on 3 pitchers. The rule already in place would make that 36 seconds. It could save over 30 minutes per game for the pitchers who waste a bunch of time.

I am all for anything that might quicken up the game, but the intentional walk shouldn't even be a necessary change (I am thinking of tradition), teams might use it once or twice a game.


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[GreyCrow]

One way to quicken up the game is to actually enforce the rule MLB has in place, 12 seconds between pitchers. When probably every team has a human rain delay (such as Pedro Baez) taking over 1 full minute for every pitch, it is no wonder everything is slowed down to a crawl. Pedro Baez could take 3 minutes to get a batter out on 3 pitchers. The rule already in place would make that 36 seconds. It could save over 30 minutes per game for the pitchers who waste a bunch of time.

I am all for anything that might quicken up the game, but the intentional walk shouldn't even be a necessary change (I am thinking of tradition), teams might use it once or twice a game.


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I agree on the pitcher time and they should have a ball called for going over time. I also suggested the batter cant leave the box or the surrounds.

 

[Marklar_33]

I like the throwing of the intentional balls, and there was one D'Backs Dodgers game where a D'Back was wild pitched home on one

 

[RPCB]

I like the throwing of the intentional balls, and there was one D'Backs Dodgers game where a D'Back was wild pitched home on one

I must say that getting rid of the intentional will mean losing epic intentional walks such as:








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[TheGreatBarryB]

Another rule change contemplated ....don't mind this one. At the start of every extra inning they automatically place a runner on second base. Going to trial it in the minors and in the World Baseball Classic.

Major League Baseball plans on testing a rule change in the minor leagues this season that automatically would place a runner on second base to start extra innings, according to Yahoo! Sports' Jeff Passan.

The rule will also be implemented in the upcoming World Baseball classic next month. Major League baseball could experiment with the rule Gulf Coast League and Arizona League.

“It’s not fun to watch when you go through your whole pitching staff and wind up bringing a utility infielder in to pitch,” Joe Torre told Yahoo. “As much as it’s nice to talk about being at an 18-inning game, it takes time.”

The rule change would start in the 10th inning and every inning thereafter.

http://www.si.com/mlb/2017/02/08/mlb-considering-extra-innings-rule-change-runner-second-base

 

[RPCB]

Another rule change contemplated ....don't mind this one. At the start of every extra inning they automatically place a runner on second base. Going to trial it in the minors and in the World Baseball Classic.

TBH, I am not thrilled about anything that imposes on the game itself. A time limit on various things like pitching changes/time between pitches etc, yes. But something like the above, is a big no.

I don't even see the logic behind the proposal:

First batter up in the 10th inning bunts player on 2nd to 3rd.

Player on 3rd base with 1 out, second batter up sac fly to centre field, player on 3rd scores. 1 run lead with 2 outs and bases empty.

Third batter up in the 10th is out on strikes.

Next team up at bottom of the 10th, does the exact same thing. Onto the 11th. The sequence could simply repeat itself.

There's also the small matter that this proposal could actually slow the game down further. The first batter up with a player on 2nd base could be walked. Next batter could be out on a double play with the guy on 2nd advancing to 3rd base. The next batter up could also be intentionally walked to give the fielding team a better chance to get a player out at 1st or 2nd base. After the second intentional walk, there could be a pitching change. That sequence could repeat itself. In order to quicken up extra innings, there might not be much actual Baseball played.



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[TheGreatBarryB]

Actually the more you think of it the more ridiculous that proposed extra inning change is. In fact it's probably the worst of all.

Last year two thirds of extra inning games finished in the 10th or 11th inning. 15+ innings average for only 8 games a year over the last decade. Ratings actually go up during XI games.

They don't seem to have addressed which player is automatically placed on second. Surely you have to follow the batting card and what if your best batter is next up and the other teams no. 9 is up? What if you've already used your best pinch runner? Will I use him in the 9th now or wait until the 10th? You're now directly effecting the nine inning game.

What about stats? I love baseball stats, this skews everything.
Plus XI are always tense especially in playoffs.

It's interesting that pitch clock changes last year in AA and AAA reduced games on average by 12 mins. May be as others here have suggested is the way to go.

P.s this rule change is only being trialled in rookie leagues not all minor leagues.

 

[Marklar_33]

Actually the more you think of it the more ridiculous that proposed extra inning change is. In fact it's probably the worst of all.

Last year two thirds of extra inning games finished in the 10th or 11th inning. 15+ innings average for only 8 games a year over the last decade. Ratings actually go up during XI games.

They don't seem to have addressed which player is automatically placed on second. Surely you have to follow the batting card and what if your best batter is next up and the other teams no. 9 is up? What if you've already used your best pinch runner? Will I use him in the 9th now or wait until the 10th? You're now directly effecting the nine inning game.

What about stats? I love baseball stats, this skews everything.
Plus XI are always tense especially in playoffs.

It's interesting that pitch clock changes last year in AA and AAA reduced games on average by 12 mins. May be as others here have suggested is the way to go.

P.s this rule change is only being trialled in rookie leagues not all minor leagues.

This rule has been used in softball as long as I can remember. The batter on second is the last out of the previous innings

It is a terrible idea though, and as you say, XI games gain interest

They are saying they want to increase the pace of play, not necessarily decrease game time. This doesn't really help that in any way

 

[GreyCrow]

Reduce the number of pitch conversations. Don't they talk to the pitcher in the innings break?
Make the batter stay within the box and be ready to go when the pitcher is, not the other way
Limit how many ''time'' calls a batter can make
Stop pitching practice on the mound, the reliever has spent 10 minutes in the bullpen throwing. Get straight into it
On-field calls stay , no review unless challenged by the Manager, 2 each game.

The one that can slow a pitch sequence is the pick off at 1st base. But I cant see any way to legislate against it without unfairness.

The other factor is tv revenue and advertising. ie you could speed the innings change over but that may get push back from the networks.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

They're trying to appeal to the younger audience, hence try to make it quicker etc. But let's face it, is reducing the game time by 12 or even 15-20 mins going to make that much difference to whether you like/ watch the game? You either like the game or you don't. If anything it's more likely to simply piss off existing fans.

 

[GreyCrow]

A lot of it will come back to tv. They want the certainty of a 3 1/2 hour block of programming. Then the League can schedule one game after another, East,Mid,West all to follow one another

Ironically the game was faster without tv and slower now it is here.

 

[RPCB]

One thing that should really be quicker is the replay centre. How many times does the viewer need one camera angle to see that someone is out or safe and yet the umpires are there waiting 4 minutes before given the go ahead to make the correct call we all knew shouldve been made a lot earlier?



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[AmericanCrow]

The reasons for the longer game are all spelled out above. In my opinion, I would rank the delays as follows:

1. Commercials after each half-inning. Usually ensure at least 2 minutes of break as they run. Tacks on an additional 36 minutes for every full 9 inning game.

2. Pitching changes. Usually accompanied by another delay of 1.5-2 minutes each time. Sometimes as many as 3 or 4 changes in a half inning in later stages of game.

3. Trips to the mound by catchers and coaches/managers.

League isn't going to do anything about #1, since that is where the $$ is. I believe you could fix #2 and #3 thru a rules change that doesn't affect the nature of the game itself.

Trips to the mound should be limited to 6 per game per team. That includes the catcher. If you hit your limit and need to change a pitcher you have the catcher notify the umpire and you can't move from the dugout. So it is sort of like timeouts in other sports...once you use them you lose them.

To cut down on 6 different pitching changes in the late innings each team designates 4 relievers eligible to pitch. One pitcher stands by as an "emergency" pitcher if game goes into extra innings or the 4th reliever is hurt.

No reason you can't get thru a 9 inning game with 5 pitchers total. Puts a premium on guys that can get batters out and minimizes the use of pitchers for one damn batter.

Anyhow, that is my 2 cents.

 

[RPCB]

The reasons for the longer game are all spelled out above. In my opinion, I would rank the delays as follows:

1. Commercials after each half-inning. Usually ensure at least 2 minutes of break as they run. Tacks on an additional 36 minutes for every full 9 inning game.

Nothing will be done with #1. Commercial break = inning changeover. Imagine having a 30 pitch inning and you're rushed to get your Catcher back at the plate to hit first after a short changeover. I agree with the rest of your post but #1 can't be helped when the players health is involved.

Another good suggestion that I read above is having the pitcher start throwing straight away, instead of 5-6 practice pitchers first. They've been given ample time to prepare in the bullpen, so they should get going as soon as they step onto the mound. No reason not to.

Also, the complete 12 second rule in the league offices own words:

Rule 8.04 requires the pitcher to deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball with the bases unoccupied. The penalty prescribed by Rule 8.04 for a pitcher's violation of the Rule is that the umpire shall call "Ball."

Can't believe that is not enforced. The wording makes it sound like the rule is only in place when no one is on base, which makes sense as pitchers usually want more time with runners on base. But even with bases unoccupied you will rarely see a pitcher delivering within 12 seconds.

I can't believe the league office want to speed up the game by introducing a ridiculous extra inning rule in the lower levels but have have completely ignored any mention of a rule that is already in place.


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