Lets talk about... Tom Campbell

[stefoid]

Ive always thought the ability to take a mark was was a primary asset for a ruckman. If youre one of the tallest guy on the field and you dont have an opponent on your hip for at all times, you should be demanding and taking marks. Which is why I like Campbell - the guy can take a mark!

Sounds like people have written him off and I havent seen anything of Footscray this year. So whats the story?

BB (Before Beveridge) he was seen as a natural successor to 1st ruck after will retired. These days Will isnt 1st ruck and Campbell isnt getting a game either. If getting around the ground and taking marks is the criteria, Tom is a better mark than Minson and Cordy, so I can only assume its his ability to get around the ground that is the issue.

But with Wuilberforce playing at Footscray, Tom is playing where exactly? Are these guys sharing 1st ruck or is Tom now primarily a forward ?

 

[LondonBulldog]

The game a couple of weeks ago at Whitten Oval they shared, or maybe Minson get a little more time in the ruck. Yet, I'm with you, I believe Campbell would be the best ruckman if given the chance. O.k he is not the most mobile yet with our on ballers as long as he uses his big body and makes a contest he can add so much to our team. Bevo is going for the mobile ruck and while I agree if we had a good mobile ruck but we don't. Cordy is handy at best.
People forget Campbell was leading the liston medal last year until promoted to the seniors. The guy can play, jut needs the opportunity.

 

[Tommycash]

Bev isn't looking for a consistent ruck who takes the occasional grab. Ayce is playing a much more mobile role than T Campbell is capable of. Unless something changes, I just don't think Tom is in the Beveridge mould.

 

[DognBones]

Wouldn't be surprised if both Minson and Campbell are gone at season's end even though both are contracted.
If Minson continues to not get a game, he might just retire and get on with his professional life.
Campbell is still quite young but I can't see him sticking around if he can't get a single senior game. He might attract an offer from someone else as a backup ruckman.
It's only one third through the season and anything can happen but the signs for both of them right now are not good.

 

[TedDougChris]

I like Campbell, I think he is a really promising big guy. But we've been talking about him needing to get a tank for 3 or so years now... At what point does the penny drop, and he spend an entire pre-season just running ?? Or is he like Jones, with a complete inability to get his endurance to AFL standards.... ??

 

[Roscoe_au]

Is he fully recovered from his surgery?

 

[Dogs 13]

Bev isn't looking for a consistent ruck who takes the occasional grab. Ayce is playing a much more mobile role than T Campbell is capable of. Unless something changes, I just don't think Tom is in the Beveridge mould.

Yes, Tom is really slow and I just don't see him fitting into what it looks like Luke wants from the role.

 

[Dogs54]

Was a huge Campbell fan during 2013 and thought he would be suitable at FF/ back up ruck in 2014. I thought his rucking was better than Minson and certainly a better mark. 2014 was a huge disappointment in both his VFL and AFL games, some VFL games were good but below expectations. His tapwork is good but around the ground he is a liability like Minson.

IMO he has lost the ability to run and jump for marks and instead tries to take pack marks which with good defenders is easy to punch away and once the ball hits the ground he becomes a liability. I'm not sure what the problem is and why he has lost his mojo, hopefully a dose of Bevo confidence can reinvigorate him.

 

[LondonBulldog]

Was a huge Campbell fan during 2013 and thought he would be suitable at FF/ back up ruck in 2014. I thought his rucking was better than Minson and certainly a better mark. 2014 was a huge disappointment in both his VFL and AFL games, some VFL games were good but below expectations. His tapwork is good but around the ground he is a liability like Minson.

IMO he has lost the ability to run and jump for marks and instead tries to take pack marks which with good defenders is easy to punch away and once the ball hits the ground he becomes a liability. I'm not sure what the problem is and why he has lost his mojo, hopefully a dose of Bevo confidence can reinvigorate him.

Hi Dogs54, some decent judges and the liston medal disagree with your call the his 2014 VFL was a huge dissappointment. He was fantastic for Footscray last year. See below:

Liston Medal comments 2014
"Footscray’s Tom Campbell wrestled the lead from Woodward with a three-vote game against Essendon in Round 15, but it would be the last VFL game Campbell would play with Footscray as he played the rest of the season with Western Bulldogs at AFL level."

 

[Unorth]

I would expect Campbell and Minson will be on the trading block. I think both have value to certain teams. Neither fit Bevo's game plan, so they can't stay. Highly unlikely that after all this time Minson becomes more mobile, and it doesn't look like Campbell will become more mobile either. So if we can get something for one or both of them that'd be more useful for us than having them on the list.

Let's not pretend that Ayce Cordy is up to standard; he's had 7 years to show what he can do. Sure, if you remove rucking from the equation he's been ok...But some are thinking it's more than 'ok' due to his standard being so low. But. Buuuuuut....He fits Bevo's game style. The team needs to get used to having a more mobile ruckman out there; playing Cordy allows the rest of the team to understand what Bevo wants. They would be used to playing with Minson out there, who sure can produce (a lot) more hitouts, but why continue giving them dependence on a type of ruckman that they won't be playing with as long as Bevo's coach? Cordy is more of a long term move; it doesn't have to be him as our #1 ruck in the future, ideally it would be someone like him, but better. So if the players get used to playing with a more mobile ruck in Cordy, then when we get a more quality mobile ruck (or if Cordy comes on, which I doubt, but hey, crazier things have happened) then it will be a much smoother transition than it would be had they been playing with Minson or Campbell.

 

[Butane]

Can't afford to lose Campbell due to Minson's age. Worst case scenario is if we end up with only Cordy as our ruckman and maybe unknown 18 year old draftee who will take another 5 years to be AFL capable.

 

[yebiga]

I don't see it
We play minson and we win against the saints and freo
Beveridge has the team playing really well but I don't think this mobile rucking has anything to do with it
Cordy played well agInst the saints but minno would have shut the game down in the last
Cordy tackles less, marks no more, is physically weak and is no quicker than minson
I don't believe the ruck tactic had anything to do with our good showing that couldn't be achieved with another tall i.e. Red path or even grant

Remember we beat westcoast and Richmond with minson

 

[VitalDread]

Is he fully recovered from his surgery?

I believe so but is still building his endurance with the Olympic runner at the club
They want to develop him into a mobile ruckman to work with our game style

 

[LibbaDog]

Both Campbell and Minson are on the outer, just not mobile enough, I can see a more likely cenario of Roughhead spending more time in the ruck as a backup for Ayce and Zayne Cordy coming in as a relieving Key defender. We need to leave T Boyd as our key bigman up forward.

 

[LibbaDog]

I don't see it
We play minson and we win against the saints and freo
Beveridge has the team playing really well but I don't think this mobile rucking has anything to do with it
Cordy played well agInst the saints but minno would have shut the game down in the last
Cordy tackles less, marks no more, is physically weak and is no quicker than minson
I don't believe the ruck tactic had anything to do with our good showing that couldn't be achieved with another tall i.e. Red path or even grant

Remember we beat westcoast and Richmond with minson

I agree with most you have said, but I think Cordy is quicker than Minson, with both hands and feet. Minson's big problem is , if you don't have the speed you need the height , he has neither. The question is can we afford to be killed in the hit outs each game and still match the opposition in clearances, it appears Bevo thinks we can. Time will tell.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

His marking is incredibly overrated and his mobility is a liability in a team that relies on rapid ball movement and an ability to move en masse both offensively and defencivly. I thought he'd make a nice rucking duo with Cordy in the coming years, it would appear that the MC think otherwise and I tend to agree with them.

 

[Dogs54]

Hi Dogs54, some decent judges and the liston medal disagree with your call the his 2014 VFL was a huge dissappointment. He was fantastic for Footscray last year. See below:

Liston Medal comments 2014
"Footscray’s Tom Campbell wrestled the lead from Woodward with a three-vote game against Essendon in Round 15, but it would be the last VFL game Campbell would play with Footscray as he played the rest of the season with Western Bulldogs at AFL level."

I understand how you can come to that opinion but I've watched him play many 2014 VFL games and his marking ability significantly decreased, tap work was still good but he won't make it on tap work alone. Although he has an interrupted pre season his 2015 VFL season is average. I hope it improves because he could be an important asset for our AFL team.

I would value the opinions of other who watched his VFL games.

 

[MrChristo]

I don't see it
We play minson and we win against the saints and freo
Beveridge has the team playing really well but I don't think this mobile rucking has anything to do with it
Cordy played well agInst the saints but minno would have shut the game down in the last
Cordy tackles less, marks no more, is physically weak and is no quicker than minson
I don't believe the ruck tactic had anything to do with our good showing that couldn't be achieved with another tall i.e. Red path or even grant

Remember we beat westcoast and Richmond with minson

v. West Coast he took exactly 0 marks.

In fact 5 total marks in 3 games, and 7 free kicks against. (Just one for). Common theme. As I've said here a few times, I suspect there are very few big men in history who give away more frees than take marks.

He was ranked 15th last year in a (possibly overly convoluted) champion data ratings of ruckmen (Ho's to adv, clearances, goals, marks and possessions I think)

 

[goodcop badcop]

Campbell's tank has noticeably improved compared to other years IMO, but it could still do with some work. He was running out the practice games better then almost everyone. The main issue I see is with his around the ground work. His marking can be inconsistent and he's on the slow side. I also think his tap work is overrated, not that it worries Bevo anyway.

 

[Doggstats]

v. West Coast he took exactly 0 marks.

In fact 5 total marks in 3 games, and 7 free kicks against. (Just one for). Common theme. As I've said here a few times, I suspect there are very few big men in history who give away more frees than take marks.

He was ranked 15th last year in a (possibly overly convoluted) champion data ratings of ruckmen (Ho's to adv, clearances, goals, marks and possessions I think)

So Will had only 1 game without taking a mark. Big deal. Cordy has had 3 games this season with 0 marks.

Since you want to talk stats. Will averaged 13.3 disposals 4.7 tackles and 26.3 hitouts this season compared to Cordys 6.8 disposals 2.2 tackles and 8.2 hitouts.

And your marks to free kicks against ratio doesn't rate that favourably for Cordy either, with 11 marks to 8 frees against so far this season. Cordy only averages 1 less free kick against per game overall.

Also last year Big Will ranked 3rd in the league for hitouts per game, and 5th for hitouts to advantage, both of which Cordy is dead last and you can almost guarantee will end the season dead last.

 

[Lex22]

It would be criminal to get rid off Campbell at the end of this year. Put a lot of time in to him and he does look like a traditional "slow burner" ruckman; ie won't be consistently up to it until he's 25-26. I'm all for getting another experienced/semi experienced guy and have 2-3 genuine first choice options on the list. If a Zac Smith or whoever comes and takes over with Ayce as backup then we obviously look to rejuvenate and move Tom on in 3-4 years time. FWIW I think we should keep Big Will for another year. We're not in a position to be moving on experienced and seasoned big men. Keep developing Campbell and Cordy, look to get in another reinforcement either this year or next and keep Wilbur there as safety for another year or 2.

 

[Butane]

Can't remember now but I'm pretty sure Campbell was leading the VFL Liston medal up until round 15-16 last year when we started playing him in the seniors.

 

[Dogs54]

It would be criminal to get rid off Campbell at the end of this year. Put a lot of time in to him and he does look like a traditional "slow burner" ruckman; ie won't be consistently up to it until he's 25-26. I'm all for getting another experienced/semi experienced guy and have 2-3 genuine first choice options on the list. If a Zac Smith or whoever comes and takes over with Ayce as backup then we obviously look to rejuvenate and move Tom on in 3-4 years time. FWIW I think we should keep Big Will for another year. We're not in a position to be moving on experienced and seasoned big men. Keep developing Campbell and Cordy, look to get in another reinforcement either this year or next and keep Wilbur there as safety for another year or 2.

Totally agree. I really hope he can regain his 2013 form as he would be a great asset to our AFL team.

 

[Dogs54]

Can't remember now but I'm pretty sure Campbell was leading the VFL Liston medal up until round 15-16 last year when we started playing him in the seniors.

I'm not having a go but I remember Wayde Skipper dominating the VFL as a ruckman. Huge difference between VFL and AFL and with the rotations of AFL players through the VFL the Liston trophy has lost some of its high status.

 

[LondonBulldog]

I'm not having a go but I remember Wayde Skipper dominating the VFL as a ruckman. Huge difference between VFL and AFL and with the rotations of AFL players through the VFL the Liston trophy has lost some of its high status.

I understand Campbell limitations, I also get to quite a few VFL games and realise at times he beat kids, yet he had a very good year in 2014. I would keep Campbell for sure.
I actually think the opportunty is to move Roughie into the ruck as long as other present in the key back positions. Mobility is the go with Bevo, so Campbell could be on the outer, yet every team needs backup.