Let's talk game plans.

[blaze036]

Probably need some analysis of where those marks were taken. May point towards shots taken from wide or beyond 40. Any idea?

Possibly, but in 2013 we were certainly more up the corridor than the past few years. I think it's mainly due to players like Lynch Cloke (amongst others) missing dozens of easy shots from 20-30 meters out.

If we improved our accuracy we would be one of the highest scoring teams in the AFL. The biggest worries are our inability to get the ball out of defence (where we are ranked 18th in the AFL), and weakness in the ruck division (ranked 2nd last in hit outs)

 

[forwardflanker]

Our fwd line structure and movement last year was horrid and not helped by the poor kicks into it.

I thought the idea was sound, it was just that the execution was awful. As a few have already mentioned close to the biggest problem last season was the lack of kicking skills of the half backs. It immediately gets worse in 2014 if Toovey slots straight in - then we have a defence with guys like Toovey, Brown, Williams, Keefe, Maxwell, Seedsman. Other than Seedsman, none of them give us any penetration or invention and most of them are below average AFL kicks. The big difference between our side and the best teams in the competition is how short we come up in rebound of the backline.

 

[forwardflanker]

We were 2nd in the AFL for marks inside 50, but ranked 15th for goal kicking accuracy. I think this shows our forward line is working pretty well however we are just missing lots of shots on goals.

Yeah I think Clokes form speaks a lot to this. The fact we move it more direct and faster in 2013 was reflected by the fact that he had a very good season. I think a big reason why he was poor in 2012 was to do with the MM slow, predictable and around the boundary ball movement. It's way easy to defend.

 

[forwardflanker]

Probably need some analysis of where those marks were taken. May point towards shots taken from wide or beyond 40. Any idea?

I have 0 stats to back this up but it definitely felt to me that Cloke was takling more marks in the corridor and closer to goal in 2013 than 2012. His kicking was diabolical.

 

[Old Spice]

It's very difficult to do so and that's part of the reason why I started the thread. If we can talk of an absence of a game plan, then we must know what one is. Time to throw our ideas out there. There are a couple of rippers already.

I think you're being a little generous on the last bolded point. Everyone can see where human error occurs, but no one can outline where the game-plan has failed. Let alone posit an alternative.

We get close talking about swarms and clusters, but you can't say to a team 'go out and swarm and cluster'. Men have to have a task and know where to position themselves in set plays at the least.

Everyone apparently seems to know that Ross Lyon has very strict field settings and roles, but who can name them and explicitly point them out?

Ergo, it becomes a wank when someone says X game plan doesn't work when you can't even explain what the starting positions are. I want diagrams of starting positions and arrows.

 

[jonbe54]

I think you're being a little generous on the last bolded point. Everyone can see where human error occurs, but no one can outline where the game-plan has failed. Let alone posit an alternative.

We get close talking about swarms and clusters, but you can't say to a team 'go out and swarm and cluster'. Men have to have a task and know where to position themselves in set plays at the least.

Everyone apparently seems to know that Ross Lyon has very strict field settings and roles, but who can name them and explicitly point them out?

Ergo, it becomes a wank when someone says X game plan doesn't work when you can't even explain what the starting positions are. I want diagrams of starting positions and arrows.

Agree Spicey, in fact I fail to see the viability of a set game plan but rather a series of nested plans and variable playbooks for different opponents, and players we have in the team.

 

[Old Spice]

For me, I liked how Watters had St Kilda play and I don't care what anyone said.

It looked very much to me that he instructed players to kick to free positions and have the receiving player honour that kick.

In other words, generally he wanted players with the ball to kick to open dangerous space to a team-mates advantage that would open up the game and have players lead to the space. St Kilda weren't fit enough with their rebuild team to run it out, but a team that was fit enough would have done okay.

The modus looked to me kick to open space at a receivers advantage. Kick to dangerous space and you make it up as the receiver.

Mick went boundary so as to mark or have a throw in/reset. Clarkson had a rolling defensive cluster which meant you don't pinpoint, you lose possession and get hurt the other way by Hawthorn deadly kicks. Geelong had the solid defence and midfield which ran in waves, making forwards of mids and choking the ball if it came back the other way.

 

[Old Spice]

Beside general approaches, there are set plays when there is a defensive kick-in or stoppage. Do we think in a defensive kick-in situation, which is really an offensive play from defence, that we set up by manning up opposition forwards? We make the play.

If Young kicks out, where do our players position themselves do we think?

 

[Hinequarters]

Tony Shaw's flood and follow kick out from the late 90's is that century's fastest transition from a kick out to goal, just under 11 seconds.. and you thought he couldn't coach

 

[Shaneprice97]

Ben Reid is the best in the game at this, but making our Key Position players more versatile. We have Goldsack who can play both ends. Karnezis is our most versatile player being able to play almost every position but most of them at only at a C grade level. Cloke is the only Key position player who i dont want playing in Defense. Lachy Keeffe went forward against port but looked lost. If we can develop Keeffe and Brown to be as good as forwards as a Chris Dawes (2010/11) and if we can develop White to be able to play defense (im not sure if he can already) it would offer us much more flexibility. Im sure that Lynch has played as a defender some point in his career so theres another swingman(not Ben Reid quality but serviceable).

Just so when we could do with an extra forward and if brownys getting beaten he can swing forward and kick a goal or 2, not expecting 5 goals but just another target. Or if Whites having a dog of a game he can go down back and be serviceable on a 3rd tall forward and one of our key backs can push forward. If we could offer big bucks to Lachlan Henderson he would offer alot of versatility.

 

[Vicky Park]

I'm out of my depth here, but is there a difference between game 'plan' and game 'style'? The former being a structured approach to play, with everyone knowing their role, set plays, applying hyper forward pressure, etc, which the Pies appeared to follow near perfectly in 2010 and most of 2011. I recall Maxy in interviews in those years constantly refering to our 'structures', and sticking to our structures. But where does that leave game 'style'? The gang tackles and desperate swarming that was also characteristic of our approach in 2010 and 2011?

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Hence the goal kicking practice during training, not before or after as if its an afterthought.

Maybe a little match simulation too?

As in after some running & drills etc fatigue & lack of oxygen then taking your kicks in a more realistic scenario.

 

[Maggie5]

After a year of some posters/supporters scratching their heads and yelling "There's no game plan", let's share what we think the game plan is and/or what it should be.
It would be good if a single post only included one of the lines (e.g. backs) and then backed up by subsequent posts relevant to other lines. Just being mindful of essays that some (including me) can write at times.
Put your coach's hat on, grab a board and go for it.

Coach Checkside

I reckon I saw Buckley's plan not being executed very well. Shorter kicks through the middle to a leading target were often butchered. Our half forwards didn't work hard enough to straighten us up.
Hard working half forwards are going to be paramount to the plan and perhaps the tonic to cure the long bomb to a 3 on 1 contest, in the opposition's favour.
More after others have had a go.

Actually I thought that for the most,it was our mids not working hard enough going back to help defenders. Wasn't until the return of Ball and Beams that we improved.

 

[jonbe54]

Maybe a little match simulation too?

As in after some running & drills etc fatigue & lack of oxygen then taking your kicks in a more realistic scenario.

Agreed, anything to make matchday more instinctive and natural.

 

[loki04]

We were 1st or 2nd in the AFL for marks inside 50, but ranked 15th for goal kicking accuracy. I think this shows our forward line is working pretty well however we are just missing lots of shots on goals.

Iirc We also ranked 1st or 2nd in forward 50 entry.
We also had a stupid amount of ball rebound due to kicking to a regularly outnumbered cloke.iirc bottom 5 for goals scored against from rebound 50.

Until Reid went fwd our forward set up was poor.

Our fwds don't make space for each other and we lack X Factor crumbers

 

[Checkside35]

Beside general approaches, there are set plays when there is a defensive kick-in or stoppage. Do we think in a defensive kick-in situation, which is really an offensive play from defence, that we set up by manning up opposition forwards? We make the play.

If Young kicks out, where do our players position themselves do we think?

I'll have a crack. Due to the quicker kick ins, targets would position themselves more centrally and then Young kicks to a spot. Easy to counter? Yes but if the mods half backs are already moving to their designated spots, you can catch a team on the hop.
So if a tall has set themselves up to indicate to the opposition that a longer higher kick to a contest (wide)is on the cards, the runners who have made leads can either be honoured with a pass or they are moving to a position to get front and square.
The half forwards come into play with the second kick after the kick in. If they and the mids don't work hard enough, no matter what we do with the kick in, it'll be wasted.

 

[TradeDraft]

Score more Points then the Opposition

 

[loki04]

I thought the idea was sound, it was just that the execution was awful. As a few have already mentioned close to the biggest problem last season was the lack of kicking skills of the half backs. It immediately gets worse in 2014 if Toovey slots straight in - then we have a defence with guys like Toovey, Brown, Williams, Keefe, Maxwell, Seedsman. Other than Seedsman, none of them give us any penetration or invention and most of them are below average AFL kicks. The big difference between our side and the best teams in the competition is how short we come up in rebound of the backline.

If you can get the footage from inside footy on fox they show a behind the goals vision of how Hawks foward line would spread defenders, open up dangerous space and identify poor matchups to isolate. Buddy and Rough would both play further out if another player was deemed to have a superior match up.
Also seen footage of their fleet of small flying through at the drop of balls our are usually no where to be seen.
Was a very good watch.

Ours was much poorer and really showed the gap in how well drilled they were compared to us imo.

 

[Checkside35]

If you can get the footage from inside footy on fox they show a behind the goals vision of how Hawks foward line would spread defenders, open up dangerous space and identify poor matchups to isolate. Buddy and Rough would both play further out if another player was deemed to have a superior match up.
Also seen footage of their fleet of small flying through at the drop of balls our are usually no where to be seen.
Was a very good watch.

Ours was much poorer and really showed the gap in how well drilled they were compared to us imo.

The Hawks players also have absolute faith that their teammates will get the pill in the scrimmages so they spread like mad. More often than not, it pays off.
I've said before that Clarkson has given them licence to spread like mad as he has faith in his ball getters. MM's approach was more conservative and Buckley hasn't had his full book of ball getters on the park. The Pies had no excuse to run ahead of the play. If it was Buckley's instruction to have faith and spread, then it was a poor instruction. On the other hand, players were often flat footed around stoppages and scrimmages. Caught between two worlds?

 

[loki04]

The Hawks players also have absolute faith that their teammates will get the pill in the scrimmages so they spread like mad. More often than not, it pays off.
I've said before that Clarkson has given them licence to spread like mad as he has faith in his ball getters. MM's approach was more conservative and Buckley hasn't had his full book of ball getters on the park. The Pies had no excuse to run ahead of the play. If it was Buckley's instruction to have faith and spread, then it was a poor instruction. On the other hand, players were often flat footed around stoppages and scrimmages. Caught between two worlds?

Was talking purely fwd line mechanics but yes they do spread hard they also have confidence tjat should they get burnt hodge gibson and birchall will chop off the incoming ball then hit them up on the way back.

 

[jonbe54]

The Hawks players also have absolute faith that their teammates will get the pill in the scrimmages so they spread like mad. More often than not, it pays off.
I've said before that Clarkson has given them licence to spread like mad as he has faith in his ball getters. MM's approach was more conservative and Buckley hasn't had his full book of ball getters on the park. The Pies had no excuse to run ahead of the play. If it was Buckley's instruction to have faith and spread, then it was a poor instruction. On the other hand, players were often flat footed around stoppages and scrimmages. Caught between two worlds?

just not enough indians methinks check

 

[Checkside35]

Was talking purely fwd line mechanics but yes they do spread hard they also have confidence tjat should they get burnt hodge gibson and birchall will chop off the incoming ball then hit them up on the way back.

Yep but the way the ball is delivered into the forward line is influenced by the amount of space players have further up the ground. I saw the hawks forwards dart off in directions and then quickly change. While a player is running with the ball in heaps of space, he has the time to wait for the change of direction. Spreading fast allows this space. Those who haven't got the ball are already moving quickly and primed to go in front and square. Our young forwards are not dangerous enough nor do they lead with enough purpose on a consistent basis. Their front and square work is shite.

 

[Smoky]

What the hell happened to
Grundy - Goal.
??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stays closer to his next ruck contest that way.



(Laziness breeds efficiency)

 

[Captivating]

I don't care what game plan we have, so long as it doesn't have a "Leigh Brown role".

 

[Hinequarters]

I don't care what game plan we have, so long as it doesn't have a "Leigh Brown role".

No but it definitely has a Jesse White role