Well we always hear that Essendon fall apart without Lloyd and we do. Im wondering that if Lucas was out, would we fall apart without him as he is one of our 2 main forwards, or is it just Lloyd cause he's Lloyd.
Lucas
- Thread starter BABYBOMBERS2007
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Yes, we would. He just hasn't missed any games in the last few years so you don't notice it. But even when he wasn't as good as he is now, our record was a lot worse without him.
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and by looking at this year alone... when he plays shi t we either lose or dont win by very much
Agree with his importance, but that comment is incorrect. We've only had one big win (over 6 goals) & he was very quiet, & two of his bigger contributions have been in losses (Kang & Blues).
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monty1104
Brownlow Medallist
Lucas is nowhere near as important to us as Hille, Lloyd and Fletcher.
Well put.
No way, he is as important as any of them. In the matches he missed in 2002 and 2004 we only won 37% of the time. When he played in those years we won 61% of the time. In that period we relied on him a lot less too.
monty1104
Brownlow Medallist
And when Lloyd and Fletcher were injured last year, won only won 2 games, with Lucas still on fire and winning our goal kicking.
You can find stats to support any arguement, 83% of the population knows that
You can find stats to support any arguement, 83% of the population knows that
You just contradicted your 1st statement with your second statement.And when Lloyd and Fletcher were injured last year, won only won 2 games, with Lucas still on fire and winning our goal kicking.
You can find stats to support any arguement, 83% of the population knows that
Ok in 2002 Lloyd missed 7 games straight after Lucas missed 5. In those 7 games we won 71% of the time.
monty1104
Brownlow Medallist
My point was that last year, even with Lucas playing well, we didnt win many games. Now this year, with Lloyd back in, and Fletcher in career best form, we are winning games. In the past 3 games we have won, Lucas has hardly been in great form, so you could say that he is less imporant to us that Lloyd and Fletcher. Also, in the past 2 games when it wastight at the edn, Hille stepped up while Lucas went missing. Take from that what you want.
Even with Lucas on average days we are still a far better team. He gives us structure and prevents Lloyd from getting double teamed.
Giving the example of last year does not show that Lucas isn't important, it shows that Lloyd is important.
Giving the example of last year does not show that Lucas isn't important, it shows that Lloyd is important.
Lucas didn't go missng at the end of the Richmond game. He kicked a goal and gave off an assist for another in the last 5 minutes.
Dumb comment! Lucas pretty much won us the game against Adelaide of his own boot, he kicked 7 goals 5 that day. Super effort. And i think he plays a huge role in the team.
monty1104
Brownlow Medallist
Its not a dumb comment at all!. You take the other guys out of the team, our structure crumbles and we tend to lose. We lose Lucas and we just lose another avenue to goal. Lucas adds far less to our structure and therefore it wouldnt be as detrimental to us if we lost him.
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Lucas is more than just an avenue to goal. He is a major part of our structure. His leads up to the wing release pressure from defence and clears room in the forward line. Lloyd kicks slightly more goals when Lucas is in the team because he gets less attention and because Lucas sets him up with long passes.
There is noone in the team that can fullfill this role anywhere near as well so we suffer if he is out.
monty1104
Brownlow Medallist
So you are saying that because he leads up to the wing our structure is better? Him leading up to the wing does make us better, but it doesnt help our structure. Lloyd being in helps us because we go more direct. Lucas doesnt do this BECAUSE he leads out wide. When Lloyd is out, Lucas still plays his own style of game, leading out wide.
When Lloyd is out Lucas plays closer to goal meaning we don't have a leading target on the wings. This causes us problems when coming out of defence.
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monty1104
Brownlow Medallist
Correct. If Lucas was TRULEY important to our structure, his position wouldnt be comprimised whether Lloyd was playing or not. You dont see Lloyd playing further up the ground when Lucas is missing. That is beacuse Lloyd has his set position. Lucas is basically free to roam from FF to CHB.
Lucas compromises his role because FF is important, but he doesn't totally compromise it he plays as more of a hybrid forward. I am pretty sure Lloyd would assume this role if Lucas missed but that has barely happened as Lucas has only missed about 10 games in the last 7 years.
monty1104
Brownlow Medallist
If scotty goes out of the team, we have options to take his place that would leave Lloyd to play his natural game. They wouldnt be as good as scotty, but they could do the same role. No one can do the same as Lloyd because of the way the team plays around him. Other players lead out wide so Lloyd can lead straight, allowing the mids to play down the guts.
The reason Lucas is so important is because it is an important role and he does it alot better than anyone else in our team. Sure others can play the role of ruck but Hille is just so much better at it than the others. If we lose Lloyd we could put another player in that role but since we have noone else as good at the role our team suffers.
No Lucas isn't important to our structure. He's only a multiple B&F winning key position player who can dominate at either end of the ground & has had 3 50+ goal seasons before '07 (& 1 with 49). Players like that are a dime a dozen.
monty1104
Brownlow Medallist
Youve just contradicted yourself. If he was that important to our structure, he wouldnt be moved around the ground, no matter how good he is in those positions.
I am not saying he isnt a good player; he is a very good player. But in terms of importance to our team, I just feel that there are a couple of players ahead of him for various reasons.