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Lyon shouldn't gamble with Keating

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Lyon shouldn't gamble with Keating
Footy Goss

When Ross Lyon was named coach of St Kilda he declared securing the services of a quality tap ruckman a priority.

The former Sydney assistant got his man in former West Coast ruckman Michael Gardiner on the final day of trade week last month.

However, the acquisition of Gardiner was off-set by the departure of Cain Ackland to Carlton via the pre-season draft.

Lyon admitted the loss of Ackland had left the club undermanned, saying he was desperate to improve his ruck stocks.

Of the current big men at Lyon's disposal; Michael Rix and Barry Brooks have combined for 19 games during their time at the Saints, Justin Koschitzke managed seven games during his well documented battle with injury in '06 and Gardiner has played 18 games in the past three seasons.

When you look at those figures you can understand why Lyon has mooted the idea of securing former Brisbane Lions ruckman Clarke Keating via the national or pre-season draft.

While there is no questioning Keating's credentials as a three-time premiership player, the "September specialist" hasn't played more than 15 games in a season for the past four years.

Even during two of the Lions premiership years; 2002 and 2003, he managed only a dozen senior appearances.

Keating's ability to peak come September is all well and good for a club in premiership contention, but after failing to capitalise on two preliminary final berths in three years and a first-round exit last season, the window of opportunity for the Saints is shut.

Lyon already has two injury plagued big men in Gardiner and Koschitzke at his disposal; with the club trying to re-build he can't afford another one.

The Saints have seven selections in this month's national draft and Lyon and recruiting manager John Beveridge would be better advised to select a raw youngster ahead of Keating if they believe they need more support in the big man department.

Essendon ruckman David Hille (No. 40, 1999) and former rookie listed players Dean Cox and Aaron Sandilands are perfect examples that quality ruckmen can be found without wasting early draft selections.

Gardiner and Koschitzke, if they get their bodies right and get a full pre-season under their belt form a more than adequate ruck combination.

Meanwhile, Rix and Brooks are only 22 and 25 respectively and history shows that big men take longer to develop, so you would assume there is plenty of upside to the pair.

Securing Keating when a premiership in the next couple of years is out of the realms of possibility isn't a gamble worth taking.

Lyon should show faith in the big men already on his list and put re-building ahead of a band-aid solution in the faint hope of bringing the premiership cup back to Moorabbin for the first time since 1966.

Tony Keen
 
I'm not sure if Tony Keen needs to advise John Beveridge on how to do his job. :D

And we have 5 draft picks, not 7.

The ruck stocks still look a little vulnerable but I don't think adding another injury prone ruckman is the answer, especially given his age.
 
I'm not sure if Tony Keen needs to advise John Beveridge on how to do his job. :D

And we have 5 draft picks, not 7.

The ruck stocks still look a little vulnerable but I don't think adding another injury prone ruckman is the answer, especially given his age.



....its 7 picks buddy!

and Keating probably isnt the answer.....probably a just replacement for Ackland thou.
 

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Keating's ability to peak come September is all well and good for a club in premiership contention, but after failing to capitalise on two preliminary final berths in three years and a first-round exit last season, the window of opportunity for the Saints is shut.


Oh well looks like we are finished as a club...:rolleyes: wonder if i can get a refund on all our memberships.....dead set some of these journos write some absolut ********e
 
....its 7 picks buddy!

Are you sure?

I thought it would have been 7 picks had we not picked up Gardiner and Birss.

The Draft News thread on the top of this board has us down for 5 picks as well.
 
Oh well looks like we are finished as a club...:rolleyes: wonder if i can get a refund on all our memberships.....dead set some of these journos write some absolut ********e

:D

I missed that.

There may be Journalists out there writing us off but the bookies have us on the third line of betting at $8.

I really don't know what to expect from us next season. I'm surprised someone would come out this early and say that the window is shut but he's entitled to his opinion I suppose.
 
We have 5 picks but unless a JB wants to pull a out smokey from Boorcan I think we'll probably use our 5th in the PSD.

Would you use a second rounder on a ruckman? (Kurt Tippett?)

I doubt it. Maybe if Renouf slipped and most of the good midfielders are gone, but otherwise I think we'd be targetting a Benjamin/Djerrkura/Boak/O'Brien/O'Keefe.

As for the article, the point of it is correct, it's just very badly written (7 picks, Brooks 25, Rix 22).
 
We have 5 picks but unless a JB wants to pull a out smokey from Boorcan I think we'll probably use our 5th in the PSD.

True but are there any delisted players out there that could add anything?

Not one of them impress me.

Perhaps a lifeline for Ferguson or Schwarze?
 
We have 5 picks but unless a JB wants to pull a out smokey from Boorcan I think we'll probably use our 5th in the PSD.



I doubt it. Maybe if Renouf slipped and most of the good midfielders are gone, but otherwise I think we'd be targetting a Benjamin/Djerrkura/Boak/O'Brien/O'Keefe.

As for the article, the point of it is correct, it's just very badly written (7 picks, Brooks 25, Rix 22).

Thanks. I have St. Kilda in the Hawthorn Board Mock Draft, and my pick is after the next one. I'll probably go for (Benjamin/Djerrkura)
 
Are you sure?

I thought it would have been 7 picks had we not picked up Gardiner and Birss.

The Draft News thread on the top of this board has us down for 5 picks as well.

We may well have 7 picks - it depends on whether the veterans are inside or outside the list.

I have edited the post to 7 picks as the paper and weaver both confirm this.
 
I really don't see how we can be considered a re-building team, most of our stars are about 22-23.
 
Lyon should show faith in the big men already on his list and put re-building ahead of a band-aid solution in the faint hope of bringing the premiership cup back to Moorabbin for the first time since 1966.

Tony Keen


After reading what Cain Ackland said about St. Kilda and the fact that he didn't receive much RUCK TRAINING because it wasn't a Priority with Grant Thomas leads me to think that WITH RUCK TRAINING, maybe Rix and Brooks will develop quicker..and be more effective....

It would be a shame to put another pick towards a Ruck when you have 2 already in training...

If you pick Keating, You will probably lose one of the young boys(again) next year due to lack of oportunity...
 

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They were interesting comments from Cain bearing in mind that our then Football Manager and Assistant Coach was a top class ruckman for a number of years. I find it extremely hard to believe that he spent little time assisting our ruckmen.

As for losing a ruckman, at this point in time there would be no great demand for Rix or Brooks from other clubs. Should either take their chance next season they'll be played in the first team and won't be tempted away.

I've been quite open in my support for Rix and my lack of faith in Brooks but I'll be over the moon if just one of them can make the step up.

In any case I think Clark Keating is too old and injury prone to recruit.
 
Thanks. I have St. Kilda in the Hawthorn Board Mock Draft, and my pick is after the next one. I'll probably go for (Benjamin/Djerrkura)

I just had a look on the Hawks board and you're doing a fantastic job so far! Proud and Benjamin would be great selections.
 
Lyon should show faith in the big men already on his list and put re-building ahead of a band-aid solution in the faint hope of bringing the premiership cup back to Moorabbin for the first time since 1966.

Tony Keen


After reading what Cain Ackland said about St. Kilda and the fact that he didn't receive much RUCK TRAINING because it wasn't a Priority with Grant Thomas leads me to think that WITH RUCK TRAINING, maybe Rix and Brooks will develop quicker..and be more effective....

It would be a shame to put another pick towards a Ruck when you have 2 already in training...

If you pick Keating, You will probably lose one of the young boys(again) next year due to lack of oportunity...

Two points need clarifying here

1) Tony keen is not a journalists rrrrsehole (and i think journo's are scum). Some hack fan that believes in premiership windows FFS :rolleyes:

2) Cain Ackland never said the above. It was the specialist ruck coach at Carlton who made those comments. Considering i saw all Saint ruckman being individually coached every time i went to training in 06, excuse me if i dont take a Carlton hack seriously.
 
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,20788306-5006065,00.html

Here's the little bit from Carlton Ruck Coach Gary Dempsy.

"Ruckmen need to learn some tricks, particularly when you are 196cm and your opponent is seven foot and 125kg. Cain told me he'd had little ruck coaching at St Kilda.

"That was the coaching style of Grant Thomas and that's fine because he got St Kilda into a couple of preliminary finals. But I don't agree."

Ackland had no problem with Thomas and was shocked the Saints sacked him. But he knows the next stanza in his career must be his best and Carlton offered him more opportunity.

Maybe Cain didn't need much coaching as he was doing the right things...??

I think Gardiner may surprise you......I just hope your fitness coach/staff can keep them ALL fit.
 

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The people over at Saintsational have gone hysterical over the selection of Howard.

What a surprise. :rolleyes:

The fact that 99.9% of people haven't seen him play doesn't seem to matter. We still stuffed up.
 

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