MCG tenants on Grand Final day

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FourthTimeAround said:
Collingwood, like all Victorian teams, believe that equality is unfair, because inequality has been embedded and normalised.

This thread is proof of that.

Talking to people all across the wonderful world of ours, following many many different sports, and not a single one can accept why we decide the champion team of the year, in a game permanently at the home city of half the participants.
They understand why, incl the financial bit, but they don’t accept it.

Reality is, it is like that, because it is like that and those who are advantaged by it, will never change it.
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What do you say when you tell them that we also manipulate the draw each year based on ladder position from the year before. Weaker teams play other weaker teams more often etc .
 
FourthTimeAround said:
Predetermined vs neutral.

SANFL play the finals at a neutral venue.
All local and amateur leagues do so as well.
Not sure about WAFL, isn't that at Subiaco now?

None of those leagues have one team needing to travel and stay in hotels and have most of their supporter base unable to attend.
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SANFL played GFs at Adelaide Oval until the 1970s, South Adelaide called AO home...not neutral.

Your grand parents must have been outraged in 1964 when Port the minor premier had to play a GF at South Adelaide's home ground, AO, and lost.

WAFL GF again was at Subiaco's ground, not neutral.

It has always been play the GF at the biggest stadium available to the league.

But after joining the VFL, WC fans then cry fowl that they cant just walk down to their GF anymore.
 
Boston tiger said:
What do you say when you tell them that we also manipulate the draw each year based on ladder position from the year before. Weaker teams play other weaker teams more often etc .
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The fact that theres no full H&A fixture is just a footnote really.
We‘re beholden to 22 games because…… ?
 

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Boston tiger said:
What do you say when you tell them that we also manipulate the draw each year based on ladder position from the year before. Weaker teams play other weaker teams more often etc .
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I wonder what they say when he tells them that Port get to determine where some of their away games are played.

Imagine trying to explain to anybody that Port want to play games in China and NT, but they wont give up their home games to do it...so instead keep their own he games and have other teams give up their own home games.
 
doppleganger said:
I wonder what they say when he tells them that Port get to determine where some of their away games are played.

Imagine trying to explain to anybody that Port want to play games in China and NT, but they wont give up their home games to do it...so instead keep their own he games and have other teams give up their own home games.
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And there we have it, the final defences of the indefensible
Deflection and Misdirection
Options when there is inability to argue the argument at hand
All we need is Hyperbole and Ridicule and we have the full set.

I suppose I should start arguing that the competition used to guarantee home prelim Finals as well.
 
doppleganger said:
SANFL played GFs at Adelaide Oval until the 1970s, South Adelaide called AO home...not neutral.

Your grand parents must have been outraged in 1964 when Port the minor premier had to play a GF at South Adelaide's home ground, AO, and lost.

WAFL GF again was at Subiaco's ground, not neutral.

It has always been play the GF at the biggest stadium available to the league.

But after joining the VFL, WC fans then cry fowl that they cant just walk down to their GF anymore.
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1)There was a 1/8 chance that subi would be i n a gf.

2)by the time you reached a gf you would have had 4 games on the gf venue two of them in the last coupla weeks. As opposed to 2015 where the eagles had 1 fame on the gf venue.

3) any supporter of any team had equal access to tickets. You didnt have to come up with 5k to see your team play.
 
kranky al said:
1)There was a 1/8 chance that subi would be i n a gf.

2)by the time you reached a gf you would have had 4 games on the gf venue two of them in the last coupla weeks. As opposed to 2015 where the eagles had 1 fame on the gf venue.

3) any supporter of any team had equal access to tickets. You didnt have to come up with 5k to see your team play.
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Bring all the finalists to Melbourne for the finals. Oh I think we tried that
 
kranky al said:
1)There was a 1/8 chance that subi would be i n a gf.

2)by the time you reached a gf you would have had 4 games on the gf venue two of them in the last coupla weeks. As opposed to 2015 where the eagles had 1 fame on the gf venue.

3) any supporter of any team had equal access to tickets. You didnt have to come up with 5k to see your team play.
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This is the bit that pisses me off almost more than the game itself.
 
kranky al said:
1)There was a 1/8 chance that subi would be i n a gf.
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So not neutral.
kranky al said:
2)by the time you reached a gf you would have had 4 games on the gf venue two of them in the last coupla weeks. As opposed to 2015 where the eagles had 1 fame on the gf venue.
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Simple, play all finals at the G.
kranky al said:
3) any supporter of any team had equal access to tickets. You didnt have to come up with 5k to see your team play.
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Club members still get equal access.

If you want to walk down and watch the WAFL GF you can. It is still the biggest game in WA.

You chose to support a team that competed outside of WA, where there are bigger cities and the majority of stakeholders are on the other side of a continent.
 
FourthTimeAround said:
I suppose I should start arguing that the competition used to guarantee home prelim Finals as well.
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You gave up your SANFL GF was neutral schtick pretty quick.

South Adelaide hosting GFs on their home deck, aint really neutral.

And just like GFs, prelim finals were also at the major stadiums not played at teams "home" grounds.
 
doppleganger said:
You gave up your SANFL GF was neutral schtick pretty quick.

South Adelaide hosting GFs on their home deck, aint really neutral.

And just like GFs, prelim finals were also at the major stadiums not played at teams "home" grounds.
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Yep, you keep grinding on the same old same old.
SANFL sorted out their GF’s back 50 years ago. It’s old news, you keep bringing it up like it’s current.

So please stop embarrassing yourself trying to defend a clearly proVic biased setup.
Stick with the political / financial reasons and you’d be believable.
 

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FourthTimeAround said:
That’s not a full H&A fixture either, which is the point.
Try and stay with it, yeah?
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Stay with your points?

Competitions had neutral GFs = wrong
We are beholden to 22 games = wrong

The AFL GF location is determined exactly the same way ALL Australian rules competitions have always been determined...maximising attendance and $$ for the entire league.

What is your next incorrect point?
 
Y'know, I've said this a gazillion times on these threads over the years.

I concede the comp is inequitable, and I get why the GF is at the G each year - the reasons are obvious.

The inequities in favour of vic fans are there for reasons. Footy has the biggest market there, and the flow on effects of that.

The bulk of non vic footy fans do follow AFL teams from their state, given the perpetual whining of inequity, it's mind boggling non vic footy fans stick phat. I really don't get it.

So, I'll state this again. If you support a non vic team you have choices.
  • Continue your misery in following your AFL club and throw your toys out of your cot at your whim. It's ok we'll ensure our own supply of popcorn.
  • Do not follow a club in the AFL and follow a club that is in your local league.
  • Wait until your state has the largest market share of the league for satisfaction, of course this may be never, or you might've already passed away by that time. Likely never.
  • Wait until the AFL has divisions, it's likely that the vic clubs will go back to playing each other in vic - like the comp was before it went national (which it isn't truly national anyway). This may be more likely than the 3rd option, however, may never be in your lifetime.
Personally, I wouldn't mind divisions, vic division and however the rest is made up, then a finals series between division champions to crown the AFL champion.

The problem is (which I don't find a problem...... others might) is that the vic division will always be the biggest drawcard even more so than the AFL championship game (unless there's a big vic club in it).

So, it'll be like the VFL before it became national, will always be the biggest comp in the land.
 
Just for VFL/Vic club supporters in this thread, almost every club in the VFL aside from Carlton, Hawthorn and Essendon were on the road to folding/liquidation if we didn't expand the competition and make it a national one (Collingwood were very dangerously close to being declared insolvent back then) so i am inclined to give non Vic clubs a bone and heed their concerns (if it was up to me) and let them host a GF in their home state if they earned the right

As for you non Victorian/Interstate club supporters, we already lost two historical/foundation VFL clubs est 1896 clubs in South Melbourne and Fitzroy, two is two many.

I went to Fitzroy's final game in Melbourne in 1996, one of the most bleak and horrible days of my life (not just on a spotting context), that I never, ever, want to re experience

I will be buying a North Melbourne membership next week so try do my little bit to keep the Roos as a standalone Vic club (which they deserve to be)

As I said, I also believe Interstate/Non Vic clubs deserve more when it comes to hosting finals and playing at the G..

I don't believe my views do not conflict at all, I just wish we (and the AFL commission for that matter) can meet and find a common ground that makes both Victorian and non Victorian clubs happy..

Gil and previous AFL commissioners have failed in that regard (UP YOURS OAKLEY)
 
doppleganger said:
So not neutral.

Simple, play all finals at the G.

Club members still get equal access.

If you want to walk down and watch the WAFL GF you can. It is still the biggest game in WA.

You chose to support a team that competed outside of WA, where there are bigger cities and the majority of stakeholders are on the other side of a continent.
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Well my team played in multiple grand finals, never against subi - so yes you had 7/8 chances that it would be neutral.
 
Elmer_Judd said:
Just for VFL/Vic club supporters in this thread, almost every club in the VFL aside from Carlton, Hawthorn and Essendon were on the road to folding/liquidation if we didn't expand the competition and make it a national one (Collingwood were very dangerously close to being declared insolvent back then) so i am inclined to give non Vic clubs a bone and heed their concerns (if it was up to me) and let them host a GF in their home state if they earned the right
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While that is true, there is no doubt that in some way shape or form it wouldn't have been the end for those clubs, at worst temporary. There is / was always going to be a market for those clubs because they already had a long long history.

And now the result of those clubs are very very large with very very large fan bases.

If it were the worst case scenario, as in forever folded, then I don't think the game itself would've reached the commercial level it has. In fact, probably would've ended up a shadow of its former self.

I know I wouldn't have kept following the game if the Pies folded at that time.
Elmer_Judd said:
As for you non Victorian/Interstate club supporters, we already lost two historical/foundation VFL clubs est 1896 clubs in South Melbourne and Fitzroy, two is two many.
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Hear hear.

That's why I'd like to advocate for going to a division comp, one for vic and the non vic however that would end up. Everyone happy.
 
kranky al said:
Well my team played in multiple grand finals, never against subi - so yes you had 7/8 chances that it would be neutral.
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It was a teams home ground, no different to the MCG.

The GF always played and the biggest stadium available to the league.

WA it was Subiaco.

AFL it is MCG.

The only thing that changed is that WA people are now the small fish in a much bigger pond.
 
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