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Racing Melbourne Cup 2025

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    77
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1. AL RIFFA: I think he is probably the classiest raiders we have had come down for the Cup and he ticks all the boxes you want. He was a 2000m-2400m horse in Europe until only recently when he improved when they tried him over a trip so you know he has the turn of foot required to be competitive out here.

His form over the last year or so is incredibly strong for a handicap out here. Finishing behind Rebels Romance, City of Troy and Shin Emperor is a lot better than the staying form we generally see and he has improved even further since stepping out in distance.

Don't want a heavy track for him but a soft would be perfect.

2. BUCKAROO: A poor mans Sir Delius bringing in those WFA form lines but its the proven formula in recent years. Im not worried about the distance after his run we have already talked about from last year and they are going to ride him for luck with cover this year and if he gets the gaps will be very hard to hold out. Feel like we could be looking back afterwards and thinking it was very obvious with Sir Delius, Via Sistina and TTM form lines.

Like Al Riffa a soft track would be perfect but don't want it too heavy.

3. ARAPAHO: Has shown the ability in the past at this class, distance and form on wet tracks but when an 8yo puts in back to back shockers and is weighted above his current level ill be leaving it out of everything.

4. VAUBAN: I dont think he runs out a strong 2 miles and hard to back a horse who has flopped twice in the race already. Not in great form anyway flopping twice in his last 3 runs.

A soft track would help but has to make up too much on the Caulfield Cup horses alone to be any chance.

5. CHEVALIER ROSE: Pointless going too in depth into his form because if we even get a soft track he will finish near the tail.

6. PRESAGE NOCTURNE: One of the hardest to beat. Great Cup trial in the Caulfield Cup where only Valiant King and Half Yours had better late sectionals and he meets them both better off at the weights. You know he will run the trip out
with most of his form being at 3000m in France and he has drawn perfectly to lob a good spot early.

I dont buy into him being some mudder who will love endless rain though. His best 3 performances have come on a firm track in Saudi, a good track in the CC and synthetic track in France. A soft should be just fine but the last time he saw a heavy track he could barely pick his legs up and was eased out of the race.

7. MIDDLE EARTH: Bit of an enigma who could go huge at 2 miles with the blinkers on but won't be getting any of mine if he does. Purely just #guessing if you back him because his form does not read up to it at all and then he also wants a good track which he likely won't be getting o should be able to be left out of everything.

8. MEYDAAN: Went looking for the milk saucer as soon as the heat went on around the bend at Caulfield. He looked ok the last furlong but that's because he threw the towel in when everyone else was trying to win the race.

Nothing suggests he will run 2 miles and he doesn't go on wet tracks so in the bin you go.

9. ABSURDE: Seen this story enough already to know he just isn't good enough and he isn't going any better this year than previous years. The 2 miles is still a concern as is the wet track. Leaving out of everything.

10. FLATTEN THE CURVE: It has been racing in the European version of the Murtoa handicaps against absolute camels so Ill be leaving out of everything. Goes fine on wet or dry so that shouldn't be an issue. If I had to squint hard to try to make a case the 2 miles won't be an issue and the horse he beat by 5 last time came out and beat home Nations Pride in a Canadian G1 before finishing out the back at 100-1 in the Breeders Cup the other day.

11. LAND LEGEND: Decent chance of making it three last finishes in a row. Going awful.

12. SMOKIN ROMNANS: 9yo, not racing well, not a 2 miler. Has none.

13. CHANGINGOFTHEGUARD: Had an easy run up front in the Geelong Cup and was comfortably beaten by Torranzino and co. Doesn't bring in any sort of form at all, is a distance query and is a wet track query. Has none.

14. HALF YOURS: Great run in the Caulfield Cup and only Valiant King had stronger closing sectionals so no reason to think the trip will be an issue although he obviously still has to prove it. Any rain should only assist and its hard to find too many negatives but does meet everything out of the Caulfield Cup worse at the weights and has been up for a long time.

Ill probably risk him because I have to risk something at the top of the market but has a strong Ethereal feel to him and could easily be too good again.

15. MORE FELONS: I really want to like him as a roughie because he has closed off really well in his last couple races in Sydney, likes wet tracks and was showing some middle distance WFA form last year before going amiss. But I have really strong doubts on him at 2 miles.

He did no work in the race in 2023 and got the dream run up the rails but then his legs just went to jelly at the 300m. He had looked very weak late on in a number of European staying races too before coming out here so ill probably be risking him.

16. ONESMOOTHOPERATOR: Was going a lot better last year and wasn't good enough. Moonee Valley Cup form is very average even for the second tier here. Doesn't go on rain affected tracks anyway.

17. FURTHUR: Definitely not one of the better Euro 3yos we have had come out here but probably about on par with an Il Paradiso who arguably should have won so has to be in the mix still.

St Leger run was a bit flat but only 4 lengths off Scandinavia there is decent enough form and previously put away Epic Poet who is a horse who was far superior to Presage Nocturne when they met in Saudi so it all ties in ok to be in the mix here. Getting out to a bit of a ridiculous price now and will be in the mix for me somewhere.

Don't think he wants a wet track though so that would be an issue if we get too much rain.

18. PARCHMENT PARTY: Dirt horse. You just could not back him on turf. He would be 100-1 in the Heritage on the same day for me so has none in the Cup. Good last place candidate.

19. ATHABASCAN: We already know he isn't up to being competitive at this level even at his best and he is a long way from that at the moment. Leaving out of all exotics.

20. GOODIE TWO SHOES: Absolute plodder. Would genuinely fit in well in a Jericho Cup down here. She goes over the steeples back home in very average races. I cant even think of a steeplechaser to come out here and do anything off the top of my head and she is a slow average one at that. Her only benefit to being out here is to keep the big boy Al Riffa company on his trek.

21. RIVER OF STARS: Real 2 miler who has been working up to this slowly and her run in the Caulfield Cup was brilliant. Wet tracks are no issue and bigger track/further will only help.

She was going around against Presage Nocturne and co in France last year and starting favourite for a rough idea of her level compared to them in France.

22. ROYAL SUPREMACY: Another one who put in a great Cup trial at Caulfield picking his way through the field up the straight and finishing off very well. All is form this prep has been great to be honest and apart from being a question at the 2 miles im not sure why he is such long odds. He is a roughie who will be going in all of my bets.

Whether its wet or dry will make no difference he has great form on all surfaces.

23. TORRANZINO: Great roughie. He is just one who screams 2 miles to me especially being by Tarzino. His run in the Bart Cummings behind Valiant King was great and the form out of that race has been very strong so have to trust it here and he meets Valiant King 1.5kg better off from that race. Showed good speed winning the Geelong Cup off a slow tempo as well.

Wet track will be no issue.

24. VALIANT KING: Couldn't get better Cup trials than his Bart Cummings and Caulfield Cup runs leading in just screaming home off hot tempos with great late sectionals. Those two races are clearly the form races leading in of our local races and he was the run of the race in each so really just picks himself.

The wet track however is a worry for me with him. They avoided wet tracks with him when he was trained in Europe and on breeding he is a dry tracker so I wouldn't want to see too much rain.

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Ill be playing my exotics through these runners weighting more heavily to the A runners on a win line

A: Al Riffa / Valiant King / Presage Nocturne / Buckaroo
B: Royal Supremacy / River of Stars / Furthur / Torranzino
 
For the money they would have paid and the likelihood large proportion of owners would want to him to race in Aus, that’s where the money is.

Half Yours has won $9mil since being bought, Gringotts has won $5.5 mil after winning a trial.

What's the prize money for the Arc/Japan Cup compared with the Tancred?
 
What's the prize money for the Arc/Japan Cup compared with the Tancred?
Arc I think is around $8mil AUS and Japan is $5mil AUS however I didn’t think Tancred was as low as it is. PVL really doesn’t care for racing tradition.

Good luck to them I just thought AUS with its prizemoney and class difference would be the option
 
Arc I think is around $8mil AUS and Japan is $5mil AUS however I didn’t think Tancred was as low as it is. PVL really doesn’t care for racing tradition.

Good luck to them I just thought AUS with its prizemoney and class difference would be the option
PVL just doesn't give a shit about Rosehill
 

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So if my research is correct Half Yours is the first Australian bred horse to win the Cups Double in 86 years (Rivette)

Even Stevens was a Kiwi
Galilee was a Kiwi
Gurner’s Lane was a Kiwi
Let’s Elope was a Kiwi
Doriemus was a Kiwi
Might and Power was a Kiwi
Ethereal was a Kiwi
Without A Fight is Irish

Caulfield Cup/Melbourne Cup Same Year

Horses in bold - Australian bred.

1906: Posiedon (AUS)
1937: The Trump (AUS)
1939: Rivette (AUS)

1954: Rising Fast (NZ)
1962: Even Stevens (NZ)
1966: Galilee (NZ)
1982: Gurner's Lane (NZ)
1991: Let's Elope (NZ)
1995: Doreimus (NZ)
1997: Might And Power (NZ)
2001: Ethereal (NZ)
2023: Without A Fight (IRE)
2025: Half Yours (AUS)
 
Fair to say the blue army made the right choice to go to multiple trainers.
View attachment 2470442
How many of the Freedman runners were with the Stable before the Cummings retirement eg; Tentyris.

Godolphin seems to be having a few peaks and troughs both in NH and SH of late

The change seems to be providing success.

On another note how much money must Maher be making
 
I didn't back him in either cup but it's a great story for racing to sell on the back of last years 'battlers' win. Locally bred horse does the double taking on the raiders, only the second female jockey to win the race and first to do the double and it's for a father/son training duo. Racing's image seemed to only be getting worse year on year for a while there but the general sentiment has felt like it's swung back a bit the other way (way less nuptothecup type stuff) and it might not feel like it to us who follow the great game day in and out but all the good narratives help.

On the actual race I'll wait to see the figures but it felt like Land Legend taking off when he did made it even harder for those from the back. It felt pretty pedestrian early then the pace really went on just as those at the back would've wanted to start creeping closer. The winner got the dream ride and run but was so impressive that I can't see any reason they couldn't come back and have another crack next year even with a big weight. A few in the back probably forgives but the nature of the cup means the form doesn't really go anywhere unless they turn up again next year.

Felt like the spring could've been pretty flat at one point with horses getting ruled out or falling away but it feels like all the major feature days have delivered in some way, and Champions Day still to come which has been one of the best things RVL have done in recent years.
 
I didn't back him in either cup but it's a great story for racing to sell on the back of last years 'battlers' win. Locally bred horse does the double taking on the raiders, only the second female jockey to win the race and first to do the double and it's for a father/son training duo. Racing's image seemed to only be getting worse year on year for a while there but the general sentiment has felt like it's swung back a bit the other way (way less nuptothecup type stuff) and it might not feel like it to us who follow the great game day in and out but all the good narratives help.

On the actual race I'll wait to see the figures but it felt like Land Legend taking off when he did made it even harder for those from the back. It felt pretty pedestrian early then the pace really went on just as those at the back would've wanted to start creeping closer. The winner got the dream ride and run but was so impressive that I can't see any reason they couldn't come back and have another crack next year even with a big weight. A few in the back probably forgives but the nature of the cup means the form doesn't really go anywhere unless they turn up again next year.

Felt like the spring could've been pretty flat at one point with horses getting ruled out or falling away but it feels like all the major feature days have delivered in some way, and Champions Day still to come which has been one of the best things RVL have done in recent years.

Half Yours won the Melbourne Cup by 2.75 lengths carrying 53kg. He will probably get 58kg or even 59kg.

He will have to improve by 3 to 5 lengths at least. I have my doubts and I hope I am wrong. Maybe the Caulfield Cup.....horses up in the weights can win it, but the Melbourne Cup is a different assignment with big weights.

He will need to be aimed at WFA races. He will either swim or sink...by that I mean he will do well or not do so well. The dumb modelling of Australian racing...there isn't a lot of staying races at WFA so Cups winners have to carry more weight the following year or two as their handicap rating is high. It just gets tough for stayers in Australia once their form is exposed - the handicapper can get to them and give them more weight.

Certainly the Tancred is a good option...that's at WFA....well it's the only option in terms of staying WFA races. Unless he is aimed at WFA races like the Australian Cup and Queen Elizabeth Stakes - both at 2000m....again probably at unsuitable distances....he is a stayer....again the bad modelling in Australia...not enough WFA staying races (not enough staying races in general in Australia).

Let's see how he goes. Who knows maybe an overseas race might be good.....Hong Kong Vase in December 2026....that's at WFA.

See what happens.
 
It's not a champion but it was the best horse in the race. If they keep it in Australia it'll be right up to it in the QE in Sydney.
Good luck trying beat Half Yours in any distance race. He's push button, relaxes in the run and takes a split like it's life or death. Was enormous in the Turnbull behind Sir Delius in prime Group 1 company and is more likely to be set for a Cox Plate or a QE than another Melbourne Cup
 
Good luck trying beat Half Yours in any distance race. He's push button, relaxes in the run and takes a split like it's life or death. Was enormous in the Turnbull behind Sir Delius in prime Group 1 company and is more likely to be set for a Cox Plate or a QE than another Melbourne Cup

If that's the case then, Half Yours should be aimed at the Arc.
 
Half Yours won the Melbourne Cup by 2.75 lengths carrying 53kg. He will probably get 58kg or even 59kg.

He will have to improve by 3 to 5 lengths at least. I have my doubts and I hope I am wrong. Maybe the Caulfield Cup.....horses up in the weights can win it, but the Melbourne Cup is a different assignment with big weights.

He will need to be aimed at WFA races. He will either swim or sink...by that I mean he will do well or not do so well. The dumb modelling of Australian racing...there isn't a lot of staying races at WFA so Cups winners have to carry more weight the following year or two as their handicap rating is high. It just gets tough for stayers in Australia once their form is exposed - the handicapper can get to them and give them more weight.

Certainly the Tancred is a good option...that's at WFA....well it's the only option in terms of staying WFA races. Unless he is aimed at WFA races like the Australian Cup and Queen Elizabeth Stakes - both at 2000m....again probably at unsuitable distances....he is a stayer....again the bad modelling in Australia...not enough WFA staying races (not enough staying races in general in Australia).

Let's see how he goes. Who knows maybe an overseas race might be good.....Hong Kong Vase in December 2026....that's at WFA.

See what happens.
Every horse carries weight differently but he was so dominant today he still wins with extra weight and there’s still room for natural improvement. He ate every bit of the two miles and they tend not to get sharper as they get older so if he continues running well I could see them go down a cox plate/cup campaign if he can measure up to WFA in the Autumn.

The overall pool and quality of local stayers doesn’t really justify or suggest any demand for more WFA staying races. Especially when two of the major spring races are big field handicaps. It would only rob them of the top end talent and be picked off by internationals if there was a WFA alternative to target.
 

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If it were set weights, any Aussie horse would get lapped.

The fact it's a handicap is what makes it so hard to win for these horses overseas. They need some unexposed 3 year old to be able to compete, by the time they've won the feature staying races in the UK they're weighted out of the race.

It will always be a spectacle but I'm not sure it's something every trainer in the UK is looking to tick off. If not for the prizemoney, nobody would care. We here as punters are stuck trying to draw a line between what they send over and how those horses match up against their elite stayers because we don't get their very best. I dare say the European connections know it too, they don't need to send their A graders over to get a cheque.
 
If it were set weights, any Aussie horse would get lapped.

The fact it's a handicap is what makes it so hard to win for these horses overseas. They need some unexposed 3 year old to be able to compete, by the time they've won the feature staying races in the UK they're weighted out of the race.

It will always be a spectacle but I'm not sure it's something every trainer in the UK is looking to tick off. If not for the prizemoney, nobody would care. We here as punters are stuck trying to draw a line between what they send over and how those horses match up against their elite stayers because we don't get their very best. I dare say the European connections know it too, they don't need to send their A graders over to get a cheque.

Quite a few internationals have won the Melbourne Cup plus imports being trained in Australia.
 
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Every horse carries weight differently but he was so dominant today he still wins with extra weight and there’s still room for natural improvement. He ate every bit of the two miles and they tend not to get sharper as they get older so if he continues running well I could see them go down a cox plate/cup campaign if he can measure up to WFA in the Autumn.

The overall pool and quality of local stayers doesn’t really justify or suggest any demand for more WFA staying races. Especially when two of the major spring races are big field handicaps. It would only rob them of the top end talent and be picked off by internationals if there was a WFA alternative to target.

I think we need more WFA staying races. Plus the breeding industry should refocus on 1600m+ horses...in the case of the Cup....breeding stayers.
 
If it were set weights, any Aussie horse would get lapped.

The fact it's a handicap is what makes it so hard to win for these horses overseas. They need some unexposed 3 year old to be able to compete, by the time they've won the feature staying races in the UK they're weighted out of the race.

It will always be a spectacle but I'm not sure it's something every trainer in the UK is looking to tick off. If not for the prizemoney, nobody would care. We here as punters are stuck trying to draw a line between what they send over and how those horses match up against their elite stayers because we don't get their very best. I dare say the European connections know it too, they don't need to send their A graders over to get a cheque.

The best horses from Europe and Japan don't come for the Melbourne Cup, certainly not in a long long time. Al Riffa is very good but he isnt the best in Europe.
 
The best horses from Europe and Japan don't come for the Melbourne Cup, certainly not in a long long time. Al Riffa is very good but he isnt the best in Europe.

Of course not and I know he's not. He'd sort a few of our headliners out in a conditions race though and as you said, he's not the best they've got.

They've been coming over for sets weight races though and winning too, I might add. Those are the races people get excited about because it's the best horses going at it without weights being the point of difference.

Why would you bring your best stayers over to the other side of the world, risking who knows what only to get handicapped out of the race? You wouldn't.
 

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Of course not and I know he's not. He'd sort a few of our headliners out in a conditions race though and as you said, he's not the best they've got.

They've been coming over for sets weight races though and winning too, I might add. Those are the races people get excited about because it's the best horses going at it without weights being the point of difference.

Why would you bring your best stayers over to the other side of the world, risking who knows what only to get handicapped out of the race? You wouldn't.

Having said that, the Melbourne Cup is still a very difficult race to win and its a race that is famous in world racing...plenty of people want to win it.

You still need a good horse to win the Melbourne Cup, but as you said it makes things tricky with the handicap system.

Some excellent horses have won the race, good horses have won it and also average horses have won it...so it still resembles other staying races throughout the racing world from that angle.

Perhaps there is something unique about a Group 1 3200m handicap race which attracts trainers, jockeys, owners and the public.

I for one wish we had more WFA staying races in Australia. The Cups can be left alone but WFA staying races could be created.
 
Vow And Declare: 2019
1st - G3 Tatts Cup (3000m)

Incentivise: 2021
1st - G3 Tatts Cup (2400m)

Without A Fight: 2023
1st - G3 Lord Mayors Cup (1800m)
1st - G2 Q22 (2200m)

Knight's Choice: 2024
2nd - Listed Members Hcp (1600m)
4th - G3 Lord Mayors Cup (1800m)
2nd - G2 Q22 (2200m)
3rd - G3 Tatts Cup (2400m)
4th - Listed Caloundra Cup (2400m)

Half Yours: 2025
1st - Listed Caloundra Cup (2400m)


All ran in the QLD winter carnival before going on to have success in the Melbourne spring carnival (Caulfield Cup and/or Melbourne Cup) later that year.


 
iluvparis famed ABC system for those playing at home:


A: Al Riffa, Presage Nocturne, Half Yours
B: Buckaroo, River of Stars, Valiant King
C: Goodie Two Shoes, Royal Supremacy, Torranzino
Middle Earth jumps out of the ground to cost me a large collect :straining:
 
The current Australian horse of the year is a European horse, Sir Delius when healthy is probably the best horse in Australia.

3 of the major winners at the breeders cup over the weekend on turf were European.

3 of the last 5 QE winners have been European.

4 of the last 6 cox plate winners are European.

That European Via Sistina wins the Champions Stakes (Mackinnom Stakes) easily. But really that field was garbage. So was the Cox Plate field. Another piece of evidence which shows that Australian racing is garbage at 2000m+. Probably garbage at 1600m+. Time more people woke up to that fact, especially the biased one eyed Aussie racing fans who are stuck in the Aussie racing bubble...just short sighted really.

We are a speed nation = sprinting.
 

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