Melbourne vs The World: The Jack Viney Story

[Chris25]

Instead of taking the mock drafts off topic, how about we keep all the Jack Viney speculation in one place? I'll start you off...

Melbourne fans: We'll only pick Viney if we rate him as the best player at our pick.

Everyone else: No. You've already committed to him, you'll take him at #3 if someone nominates him regardless.

Melbourne fans: We'll see.

Everyone else: We sure will.

 

[Ruse]

That pretty much sums it up we can close the thread now.

 

[Demonheart]

To be fair though the Viney situation could have a big influence on the order of the top 3 picks, it's worthy of discussion

Edit: But I get the 'not so subtle hint', no more Viney posts in the mock draft threads...

 

[Suma Magic]

A very interesting issue.

Melbourne will take him at 3 if forced IMO.

Will they be forced? Probably, not definitely.

Looking forward to seeing what happens.

 

[markm106]

I honestly believe that if we have pick three and Whitfield or Grundy were available we would not take Viney. Pick 5 and I think we will take him. He signed him with an understanding that we would take him expecting to finish higher. The club very much wants him however they would not toy with missing a better prospect.

 

[Ruse]

I honestly believe that if we have pick three and Whitfield or Grundy were available we would not take Viney. Pick 5 and I think we will take him. He signed him with an understanding that we would take him expecting to finish higher. The club very much wants him however they would not toy with missing a better prospect.

No. You've already committed to him, you'll take him at #3 if someone nominates him regardless.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Is it really that big a deal if we take him at 3? He's going to be a very good player and the difference between a pick 3 and a pick 2 or 7 is often negligible anyway. Yeah if we can get him for pick 25 or whatever it would be a bonus but I doubt we'll refuse to take him if forced to at pick 3. Could you imagine the outrage if we passed on him and he turned into a gun of the comp at GC or GWS? The supporters couldn't handle that after so many years of angst it might just be the last straw for many.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Freo will force them.

From memory we did it last year with Mitchell? So you would think we would do it again.

Guess we don't like letting other clubs get freebies at the draft table anymore xD

 

[Demonheart]

No. You've already committed to him, you'll take him at #3 if someone nominates him regardless.

Actually, we haven't and he's been told that it's not certain that we'll pick him. There has been no formal contract signed, because it's illegal to, just a HoA. He knows about the situation and understands that he may need end up at the club.

 

[Demonheart]

Freo will force them.

From memory we did it last year with Mitchell? So you would think we would do it again.

Guess we don't like letting other clubs get freebies at the draft table anymore xD

I hope Freo is the only club to bid on him.

Not sure if you understand the mechanics of what's going on.

 

[markm106]

No. You've already committed to him, you'll take him at #3 if someone nominates him regardless.

I don't think it is that straight forward that 'we have to take him'. Don't get me
Wrong we have invested a lot of time into him and if we used pick 3 I wouldn't be disappointed. We still have pick 4 and Viney will be a very good player.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

I hope Freo is the only club to bid on him.

Not sure if you understand the mechanics of what's going on.

Pretty sure I do mate.

If a kid regarded as a top 5 is available at our pick, chances are I'd be more than happy with the kid

Or perhaps I don't understand?

 

[markm106]

Pretty sure I do mate.

If a kid regarded as a top 5 is available at our pick, chances are I'd be more than happy with the kid

Or perhaps I don't understand?

U need a pick higher than our first to force us to use our first.

 

[Jmac2225]

How much would GWS or anyone else be spewing if Melbourne called their bluff though and took the better player with the pick then leaving the other club no choice but to take Viney?

Especially if Viney were then to leave that club after his initial contract expires in an attempt to get to Melbourne.

In fact this could all pan out as a massive conspiracy theory for Melbourne to tamper with the draft however it will never be able to be proven.

Ok maybe I'm going over the top here but it's a thought lol

 

[Suma Magic]

Where is he rated by those in the know?

The Dees winning some late games and having pick 4 instead would guarantee they'd have to take him.

But after thinking about it, I'm not sure GC/GWS will bid. Hope like hell they do.

 

[Andy_Mac]

I would have no problems if things finish as they are and we let GC/GWS take Viney. Particularly if GC nominate as I believe GWS will take Grundy, leaving Whitfield to us.

Viney will be good, but I don't think Melbourne can afford to gamble on the romantic notion of a F/S.

 

[tigs2010]

No. You've already committed to him, you'll take him at #3 if someone nominates him regardless.

Thats the spirit

 

[clark_the_messiah]

Instead of taking the mock drafts off topic, how about we keep all the Jack Viney speculation in one place? I'll start you off...

Melbourne fans: We'll only pick Viney if we rate him as the best player at our pick.

Everyone else: No. You've already committed to him, you'll take him at #3 if someone nominates him regardless.

Melbourne fans: We'll see.

Everyone else: We sure will.

yeah, everyone should just stop discussing one of the most important pieces and storylines of the upcoming draft

you clown

 

[yakka man]

yeah, everyone should just stop discussing one of the most important pieces and storylines of the upcoming draft

you clown

Show a bit of respect mate. No one has any idea what will happen regarding Viney and everyone is sick of hearing about it. He just doesn't want it to continue polluting the mock drafts.

 

[Ghost of Grinter]

Yeah Im sick of hearing about it, the kid isnt anywhere near 3 anyway.

If we take him at 3, will be up there with not even bothering to interview Dustin Martin.

 

[Bananabender]

While many perceive football as a dog eat dog culture, there is a difference when it comes to recruiting. Where you have clubs involved in trading and dealing with each other, it becomes necessary for recruiting officers to develop some form of trust in each other, otherwise it will reach a stage (and I understand it did in one or two instances) where clubs won't deal with each other. If club A shafts club B this time, then next time round club B will most likely return the favour.

I'd like to think therefore that if Melbourne's first selection is 3 and Viney is perceived to be around #5 or 6 in the available draft pool the clubs finishing below it would not act out of spite and nominate him under the father/son rules. That would be clearly against the spirit of the rules and tantamount to draft tampering and one would expect the AFL to be working behind the scenes to prevent because it would be an attack on its rules. And remember, Melbourne was forced to move early and enter into the HOG with Viney because the AFL introduced the Minidraft for the benefit of GWS.

In addition, who would benefit if GWS or GCS nominated Viney? Not those clubs but the ones that finished immediately above Melbourne who would automatically move up the pecking order. So a nomination of Viney that forces Melbourne to pick him at #3 (if it does indeed do that) would benefit a number of other clubs but not GWS or GCS. There doesn't seem any logical reason to do that. In fact, in the case of GWS, by forcing Melbourne to use 3 on Viney, it would most likely rule out the Demons from participating in the Minidraft, thereby reducing its options and bargaining power in the bidding process for that draft.

I can only conclude that forcing Melbourne to use pick 3 would be an act of sheer stupidity and pig headedness that would likely backfire on the club that nominates.

In addition, given that the more highly fancied Joe Daniher (who made the All Australian team while Viney did not) is likely to be picked f/s with around pick 20, it seems only fair that Viney should go with a pick a few places later. In this respect the current system strongly favours teams finishing higher up on the ladder - a situation in complete contrast to everything else which the draft stands for.

 

[markm106]

While many perceive football as a dog eat dog culture, there is a difference when it comes to recruiting. Where you have clubs involved in trading and dealing with each other, it becomes necessary for recruiting officers to develop some form of trust in each other, otherwise it will reach a stage (and I understand it did in one or two instances) where clubs won't deal with each other. If club A shafts club B this time, then next time round club B will most likely return the favour.

I'd like to think therefore that if Melbourne's first selection is 3 and Viney is perceived to be around #5 or 6 in the available draft pool the clubs finishing below it would not act out of spite and nominate him under the father/son rules. That would be clearly against the spirit of the rules and tantamount to draft tampering and one would expect the AFL to be working behind the scenes to prevent because it would be an attack on its rules. And remember, Melbourne was forced to move early and enter into the HOG with Viney because the AFL introduced the Minidraft for the benefit of GWS.

In addition, who would benefit if GWS or GCS nominated Viney? Not those clubs but the ones that finished immediately above Melbourne who would automatically move up the pecking order. So a nomination of Viney that forces Melbourne to pick him at #3 (if it does indeed do that) would benefit a number of other clubs but not GWS or GCS. There doesn't seem any logical reason to do that. In fact, in the case of GWS, by forcing Melbourne to use 3 on Viney, it would most likely rule out the Demons from participating in the Minidraft, thereby reducing its options and bargaining power in the bidding process for that draft.

I can only conclude that forcing Melbourne to use pick 3 would be an act of sheer stupidity and pig headedness that would likely backfire on the club that nominates.

In addition, given that the more highly fancied Joe Daniher (who made the All Australian team while Viney did not) is likely to be picked f/s with around pick 20, it seems only fair that Viney should go with a pick a few places later. In this respect the current system strongly favours teams finishing higher up on the ladder - a situation in complete contrast to everything else which the draft stands for.

I agree what would GC or GWS gain from nominating Viney other then annoying Melbourne.

 

[coryne]

I agree what would GC or GWS gain from nominating Viney other then annoying Melbourne.

A better player would be available with their 2nd rd selection ........... And they might rank Viney highly due to the fact that his development has been fast tracked by being in an AFL system for a year. He is probably the best inside mid in the draft (from the little I have read in mock drafts anyway) so a GC, who is in need of an inside mid, might see it as a good chance to get one esp if Caddy decides to leave ..........


That said Dylan Buckley was touted as a 1st rd selection the year before he was drafted, when Carlton agreed to select him. He slid due to various reasons (think he barely played last year at any level) and we netted him with our last selection in the draft. I don't think a club will nominate for him out of spite, but if he is a good player (was touted as a top 5 selection before his development was fast tracked by Melbourne) and if he fits a need then why wouldn't they nominate for him.

 

[Slattery_20]

I think a lot of the time we get massively, massively tied up over the minor differences in the perceived rankings .
There is no set ranking.

To pass over the son of a clubman like Viney for some minor, fleeting perceived discrepancy ("Oh noez we've only got two top 12 picks to play with instead of 3!"); after putting work into him for 2 years already - then we can officially say the Demons have no sense of loyalty & constancy.


IRL I can't see them thinking twice about using their first on Viney. Not a chance. They'll still have picks 4, ~11 and ~25 to sort out their other needs anyway.

 

[Chris25]

yeah, everyone should just stop discussing one of the most important pieces and storylines of the upcoming draft

you clown

Bit touchy there.

I started a new thread just for Viney talk, as opposed to having it spread out over two or three mock drafts. If I wanted to stop the discussion, I'd just delete it all.