Opinion Mick Malthouse

[ShanDog]

One current assistant i reckon would fit us perfectly as a head coach is Brett Kirk. Would demand excellence, yet still have that nurturing side. Not sure how great a assistant he is, but if he translated how he played to his coaching think he would be fantastic.

Funny coz the players would need a translator too.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

The take-out I get from MLG several statements you have collected is that MM is out at the end of the year. Full stop.

Although I want MLG to say as much I am not a sensitive soul on the subject and I do not particularly criticise MLG for not wanting to look too vicious. And the way things are going perhaps even MM will not need to be pushed out the door.

"shamed into retirement"

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I've seen Kirk speak a couple of times at various functions and he's very articulate. I like him a lot.

 

[walshy93]

I've seen Kirk speak a couple of times at various functions and he's very articulate. I like him a lot.

Like this?

"Wherbedegegdeghe gonna engage with our minds and our hearts." lol

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Like this?

"Wherbedegegdeghe gonna engage with our minds and our hearts." lol

Yeah obviously nothing like that.

 

[Broadside]

Like this?

"Wherbedegegdeghe gonna engage with our minds and our hearts." lol

Kirk would fix up our structures for good Feng Shui so that our chi energy flowed through the big sticks.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

The take-out I get from MLG several statements you have collected is that MM is out at the end of the year. Full stop.

Although I want MLG to say as much I am not a sensitive soul on the subject and I do not particularly criticise MLG for not wanting to look too vicious. And the way things are going perhaps even MM will not need to be pushed out the door.

I can understand your point of view on Mick, but do you acknowledge now that you overrated the playing ability of our list ?

I think most people would agree we didn't have a 'premiership winning' quality list in the years our current list peaked (2009 - 2013)

With all due respect, players like Waite, Betts, McLean or Robinson do not win clubs premierships.

The new coach in 2016 should come in with a fresh slate, and no pressure or expectations of finals for at least 3/4 seasons.

I just worry that some fans, like you, may have unrealistic expectations on our next coach, at this point in time of our list regeneration, wins/losses are immaterial, just play the kids and adjust the game plan to suit their more natural ability (whilst keeping the defensive/more contested possession facet Mick has bought to this group, which I feel is fundamentally vital for young players development, case in point Cripps)

 

[jj1978]

Firstly... prior to coming to Carlton, how many final's appearances and grand finals did Pagan win... Legend of a Coach elsewhere may not necessarily mean you'll always be a great coach.. times change.

If we get a new coach in 2016 their first job will be to build confidence in the list and strut. Port is an example... Hinkley gave the players faith in themselves and the confidence they needed as individuals and a team to play. Hinkley in fact may have pumped up players in private/public more than they deserved just to build some ego into them, and that no doubt has translated in all aspects of their football lives.

I feel our list respects Malthouse, as a dad, but not as a coach...

 

[smashbox gill]

Kirk could definately fix the culture as well

 

[Schraderbrau]

I can understand your point of view on Mick, but do you acknowledge now that you overrated the playing ability of our list ?

I think most people would agree we didn't have a 'premiership winning' quality list in the years our current list peaked (2009 - 2013)

With all due respect, players like Waite, Betts, McLean or Robinson do not win clubs premierships.

The new coach in 2016 should come in with a fresh slate, and no pressure or expectations of finals for at least 3/4 seasons.

I just worry that some fans, like you, may have unrealistic expectations on our next coach, at this point in time of our list regeneration, wins/losses are immaterial, just play the kids and adjust the game plan to suit their more natural ability (whilst keeping the defensive/more contested possession facet Mick has bought to this group, which I feel is fundamentally vital for young players development, case in point Cripps)

Tbh I think MM has a pretty serious legitimacy problem because he overrated your playing list when he took over. How can he be trusted with an extension when he got it so wrong a couple of seasons ago.
It goes down as one of his biggest mistakes as a coach imo.

 

[Schraderbrau]

The tragedy for Carlton, imo, is that the one time they need to be really ruthless to sack a coach they are too scared to pull the trigger.

On another note. If Worsfold is appointed as coach then you should be pretty happy. He successfully rebuilt the WC list twice to play deep in finals. I can't think of anyone else available who has a better record of building teams up from the bottom

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Tbh I think MM has a pretty serious legitimacy problem because he overrated your playing list when he took over. How can he be trusted with an extension when he got it so wrong a couple of seasons ago.
It goes down as one of his biggest mistakes as a coach imo.

The fault is more with the previous board than Mick. They controversially fired a club legend after one bad season as coach in the deluded hope Mick could take us to the top 4.
The previous administration at this club has a lot to answer for

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Tbh I think MM has a pretty serious legitimacy problem because he overrated your playing list when he took over. How can he be trusted with an extension when he got it so wrong a couple of seasons ago.
It goes down as one of his biggest mistakes as a coach imo.

I don't think it was the judgment of our list that was the problem. We have seen a lot of players seriously lose form the past couple of years. He came in with a game plan and tried to turn a whole list on to it and it did not play to our strengths. It takes a long time to turn over a whole list and still the main senior core are not suited to Mick's game plan and it takes an awful lot longer to get rid of them and their influence on the rest of the side.

On top of that he has been unable to instil a work ethic into most of them and what we needed more than anything was to address the inconsistencies in Ratten's side, by having a hard arse motivator in charge.

Maybe a right coach, wrong club vs wrong coach, right club scenario. Probably a little bit of each.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The fault is more with the previous board than Mick. They controversially fired a club legend after one bad season as coach in the deluded hope Mick could take us to the top 4.
The previous administration at this club has a lot to answer for

Mathieson .....

Reminds me how livid I was at the time.

 

[Schraderbrau]

The fault is more with the previous board than Mick. They controversially fired a club legend after one bad season as coach in the deluded hope Mick could take us to the top 4.
The previous administration at this club has a lot to answer for

Yep I agree, but I think the problem is that there are only two conclusions that can be drawn from MM taking the job in those circumstances.

1. He was so desperate to coach that he led the Carlton board on in their hopes that they could play deep into finals with the current list; or

2. His assessment of where the list was at horrible wrong; or overestimated his abilities as a coach.

Regardless of which way you look at it, the actions by both parties have set the blub back several years and I think that it's fair to say that MM doesn't deserve an extension based on it.

Carlton are best off cutting their losses now and preparing for the future. They have wasted too much time as it is

 

[BluesRule]

Tbh I think MM has a pretty serious legitimacy problem because he overrated your playing list when he took over. How can he be trusted with an extension when he got it so wrong a couple of seasons ago.
It goes down as one of his biggest mistakes as a coach imo.

It got MM a $3m contract so it was not bad business.

My concern is not that he over-rated the list or got paid $3m, but that he has delivered so little since being at CFC.

If we could see outstanding player development and enjoy a good game it would go some way to restoring belief in MM.

 

[Schraderbrau]

I don't think it was the judgment of our list that was the problem. We have seen a lot of players seriously lose form the past couple of years. He came in with a game plan and tried to turn a whole list on to it and it did not play to our strengths. It takes a long time to turn over a whole list and still the main senior core are not suited to Mick's game plan and it takes an awful lot longer to get rid of them and their influence on the rest of the side.

On top of that he has been unable to instil a work ethic into most of them and what we needed more than anything was to address the inconsistencies in Ratten's side, by having a hard arse motivator in charge.

Maybe a right coach, wrong club vs wrong coach, right club scenario. Probably a little bit of each.

These are reasonable points but they still point to the fact that he shouldn't get an extension. Changing the gameplan is a judgment issue. Not just because you didn't have the players but also because I think it's pretty out of date. As a Collingwood supporter its pretty telling to see how much we have changed since 2012 and we were the leaders of that gamestyle.

The work ethic one is perhaps the most puzzling things about MM's time at Carlton. I don't think I saw a Collingwood game in MM's time where the side didn't put everything into it. If anything defined his time at the Pies it was getting average lists to play deep into finals.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The work ethic one is perhaps the most puzzling things about MM's time at Carlton. I don't think I saw a Collingwood game in MM's time where the side didn't put everything into it. If anything defined his time at the Pies it was getting average lists to play deep into finals.

I believe the players are lost and are therefore more prone to giving up the fight. Our 2011 side was not the most talented but it was exciting and missing a couple of key players went within 3 points of winning a Subiaco semi and being in the preliminary finals, in what was a brutal contested game.

We saw that game as being a sign of what that side could do if they were 100% committed. Then in 2012, injuries really smashed us and we dropped. We were still entitled to think that with 100% commitment we could still challenge in 2013.

2013 under Mick, we struggled with the game plan early then when in trouble, which we were frequently in, Mick let us release the shackles and play our natural game. When Essendon stuffed up, that final round win over Port and the Elimination final win over Richmond, again showed what we were capable of.

Since then, form dropped, players left, the game plan is unrecognisable and we don't even get to revert to old game plan because the side has been filled with dour defensive types.

It's not the list, or at least it wasn't but may be now. It's the inability to teach them a workable game plan and tap into their fragile mindset to get them to play with 100% commitment. Our list and our coach are victims of each other and I see the cycle repeating regardless of who is in control. It's like a whole generation of potentially good players wasted.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Very well summarised The Old Dark Navy's

 

[DaVillaBlues]

It got MM a $3m contract so it was not bad business.

My concern is not that he over-rated the list or got paid $3m, but that he has delivered so little since being at CFC.

If we could see outstanding player development and enjoy a good game it would go some way to restoring belief in MM.

Patrick Cripps will be the one great/lasting legacy Mick gives this club.

People wanted MM to rush Cripps into the seniors last year, especially soon after he broke his leg, but Mick stood firm that Paddy wasn't ready then, gave PC a few cameos at the end of 2014 to whet his appetite, and ensured Paddy worked his ass off over the preseason and build his confidence and fitness levels, and the result is Cripps becoming the exciting youngster at Carlton for a decade.

Mick deserves a lot of credit for that.
Happy MM has given Menz a spell in the VFL as well, Tenzel is a prodigious talent, but had been coasting in the first month of the season and NAB challenge.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Patrick Cripps will be the one great/lasting legacy Mick gives this club.

People wanted MM to rush Cripps into the seniors last year, especially soon after he broke his leg, but Mick stood firm that Paddy wasn't ready then, gave PC a few cameos at the end of 2014 to whet his appetite, and ensured Paddy worked his ass off over the preseason and build his confidence and fitness levels, and the result is Cripps becoming the exciting youngster at Carlton for a decade.

Mick deserves a lot of credit for that.
Happy MM has given Menz a spell in the VFL as well, Tenzel is a prodigious talent, but had been coasting in the first month of the season and NAB challenge.

Cripps deserves a lot of credit for that.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Cripps deserves a lot of credit for that.

Come on Meb, be fair to Mick, there were lots of fans demanding Cripps be played last season, especially as he was a top ten draft pick.

Rushing him in prematurely could have harmed his confidence and development, happened at Melbourne with Jack Watts.

Saw Cripps interviewed earlier this year about Mick, he couldn't be more glowing in his praise of the coach.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Come on Meb, be fair to Mick, there were lots of fans demanding Cripps be played last season, especially as he was a top ten draft pick.

Rushing him in prematurely could have harmed his confidence and development, happened at Melbourne with Jack Watts.

Saw Cripps interviewed earlier this year about Mick, he couldn't be more glowing in his praise of the coach.

I'm saying that Cripps deserves the credit for seeking out a running coach in the off season DVB. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I feel like you attribute everything positive to Mick and everything negative is someone else's fault. You probably see me as the opposite

 

[passmark]

Mick made Cripps?

 

[DaVillaBlues]

I'm saying that Cripps deserves the credit for seeking out a running coach in the off season DVB. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I feel like you attribute everything positive to Mick and everything negative is someone else's fault. You probably see me as the opposite

Fair enough, can see the validity of that criticism of myself perhaps being too glowing of Mick, but I have also been critical of him and I hindsight, I don't believe he should have been coach.

However I have felt for sometime there has been something fundamentally rotten at our club, and that's not Mick's fault.

Mick's cleanout of players is not popular, but if not now ? When ?

He can probably adjust the game plan, his lack of flexibility is frustrating, but I look atbl the current group of players, and its hard to envisage another coach doing much better.

But I do value and respect your opinion, I guess I probably have come across as bit of an 'evangalist' preaching the Malthouse gospel, but I strongly feel (with the exception of Jones and maybe Daisy and Tutt) that the recruiting/list management path taken by Mick was one we had to take in the long term interests of the club.